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Featured Pakistan will proceed on Kashmir issue with or without Saudi Arabia : SM Qureshi

Sure, but all of this can be done with tact, especially in the responses in this thread that I am reading I think that this is lacking. As for the Kuala Lumpur debacle, I think that was just a screw up on our part, yes the Saudis strong armed us, they don’t want us close to certain people.

But we have to decide in that situation as tactfully as possible what is more important to us; politely declining an event with allies who pay lip service to Kashmir cause and (credit where it is due...) also help diplomatically on mutual terms, or going against the wishes of a genuine benefactor that has put their money where their mouth is on multiple occasions, and often times it has saved our skin, or allowed us to pursue some of our ambitions? In most cases in our history, it didn’t matter who was in power, army or civvy, they all knew where their bread was buttered and typically chose closeness with the latter.

KL was a slip up imo, either we shouldn’t committed at all, if the government eventually judged that the cost wasn’t worth it as it had, or we might have stuck to our guns and not caused embarrassment by pulling out. Anyway I digress.

Also, on the OIC comments I agree with you here, seen in that context our message being conveyed is justified. But I feel that we have far less leverage on them than they have on us, this is the sad reality with almost all of our international relations of import.

There must be a lot that we are not privy to, and this message being public was intended for certain impact. We also need to open trade and oil+gas imports from Iran, which has been the main sticking point with KSA for far too long. Sidelining KSA on Kashmir issue is just the beginning I feel.
 
There must be a lot that we are not privy to, and this message being public was intended for certain impact. We also need to open trade and oil+gas imports from Iran, which has been the main sticking point with KSA for far too long. Sidelining KSA on Kashmir issue is just the beginning I feel.

As far as I understand, it was his personal view and said that he will present the same view before PM. SM Qureshi can't dictate State policy alone or make such big changes. However, he fired the wrong bullet on wrong occasion at the wrong target especially since we are recovering from many of damages. The wording and expression should have been different as after all he is FM. There's another side but I will keep it with me for a while.
 
As far as I understand, it was his personal view and said that he will present the same view before PM. SM Qureshi can't dictate State policy alone or make such big changes. However, he fired the wrong bullet on wrong occasion at the wrong target especially since we are recovering from many of damages. The wording and expression should have been different as after all he is FM. There's another side but I will keep it with me for a while.
i am sure FM was delivering a message to oic to take some actions or else there are already many countries who are done with saudi arabia leading muslim nation on political fronts FM also said that we are ready to defend holly lands incase of forigen aggression but people of pakistan expect saudies to voice in favor of pakistan too..its true they supported us in time of troubels but they also have a history to meddling with our internal affairs millions of pakistanies are working in gulf but millions of iranies also working in gulf even iran's 2nd biggest trade partner is UAE which is their arch rival it shows business is business and cup of tea is cup of tea.. paradigm of middl east is changing rapidly and we cannot act like a coward forever in the pages of history if we are not able to defend our strategic and national interests better be parished rather than becoming worthless crowed .. our hands are always tide and mouths are always sealed with few billions dollars as our govts become addicted that they cannot say a word against them this addiction must stop otherwise forget kashmir and other interests...why we cannot able to become assertive historically?? because we made compromises if we wanna rise then we should learn to hold our grounds ...at start it will bleed us but later we will prove strong...
 
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Pakistan should approach Indonesian news media, most Indonesian popular news TV media are owned by Muslim like CNN Indonesia, CNBC Indonesia, Metro TV, and TV One. Other popular TV station owned by Muslim like Trans TV, Trans 7, Net TV.

Other news outlet that is pro Islamist agenda is Republika. Media Indonesia and Jawa Post are also popular and owned by Muslim but has more nationalist agenda.

Viva is also owned by Muslim and an integrated media outlet and quite popular on online and Youtube.

Largest Islamic organization like Nahdatul Ulama and second largest and more conservative Islamic organization like Muhammadiyah.

The current lock down in Kashmir and internet ban should be the issue that can be raised. I think Pakistani government only approach other government, while for democracy country like Indonesia, approaching the media and civil organization is also very important to influence Indonesian government who is currently ruled by Nationalist like Jokowi.
Man..India has good ties with indeonesia and we indians have a positive view of your country.
Yesterday while doing bhumi puja of Ram Mandir our PM hailed indonesia ..he talked about how lord Rama is also revered there.
Your posts are contrary to our view of your country...this is a matter between india and pakistan..I request you better stay away from this topic as it only embitters Indians.
You can stay neutral..
 
Man..India has good ties with indeonesia and we indians have a positive view of your country.
Yesterday while doing bhumi puja of Ram Mandir our PM hailed indonesia ..he talked about how lord Rama is also revered there.
Your posts are contrary to our view of your country...this is a matter between india and pakistan..I request you better stay away from this topic as it only embitters Indians.
You can stay neutral..

Nope, I can say the lock down that keep continuing in Kashmir can actually bring trouble to the relationship between Indonesia and India. The one that make it not an issue now is because of there is no Indonesian media coverage about Kashmir lock down.

Two largest Muslim organization like NU and Muhammadiyah can also be used by Pakistan to raise the issue, and also DDII (Dewan Dakwah Islamiyah Indonesia). If those organizations are approached, there will be massive pro Kashmir campaign across Indonesia during Friday prayer. Actually Indonesian are not necessary pro Kashmir independent, but if Indian treat Kashmir like shit, there will be respond from Muslim community.
 
Nope, I can say the lock down that keep continuing in Kashmir can actually bring trouble to the relationship between Indonesia and India. The one that make it not an issue now is because of there is no Indonesian media coverage about Kashmir lock down.

Two largest Muslim organization like NU and Muhammadiyah can also be used by Pakistan to raise the issue, and also DDII (Dewan Dakwah Islamiyah Indonesia). If those organizations are approached, there will be massive pro Kashmir campaign across Indonesia during Friday prayer. Actually Indonesian are not necessary pro Kashmir independent, but if Indian treat Kashmir like shit, there will be respond from Muslim community.
Ok...no problem...
 
The Newspaper's Staff Reporter
Updated 06 Aug 2020

5f2b77a6abac1.jpg

FM Shah Mahmood Qureshi says Pakistan skipped Kuala Lumpur summit on Saudi request and now Pakistanis are demanding Riyadh ‘show leadership on the issue’. — DawnNewsTV/File

ISLAMABAD: Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi in an unusually sharp warning asked Saudi Arabia-led Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) on Wednesday to stop dilly-dallying on the convening of a meeting of its Council of Foreign Ministers (CFM) on Kashmir.

Appearing in a talk show on ARY News, the foreign minister said: “I am once again respectfully telling OIC that a meeting of the Council of Foreign Ministers is our expectation. If you cannot convene it, then I’ll be compelled to ask Prime Minister Imran Khan to call a meeting of the Islamic countries that are ready to stand with us on the issue of Kashmir and support the oppressed Kashmiris.

Mr Qureshi said that if OIC fails to summon the CFM meeting, Pakistan would be ready to go for a session outside OIC. In response to another question, he said Pakistan could not wait any further.

Pakistan has been pushing for the foreign ministers’ meeting of the 57-member bloc of Muslim countries, which is the second largest intergovernmental body after the UN, since India annexed occupied Kashmir last August.


Says Pakistan skipped Kuala Lumpur summit on Saudi request and now Pakistanis are demanding Riyadh ‘show leadership on the issue’
Mr Qureshi had at an earlier presser explained the importance of CFM for Pakistan. He had then said that it was needed to send a clear message from Ummah on the Kashmir issue.

Although there has been a meeting of the contact group on Kashmir on the sidelines of UN General Assembly session in New York since last August and OIC’s Independent Permanent Human Rights Commission has made statements on the rights abuses in the occupied valley, but no progress could be made towards the CFM meeting.

A major reason behind the failure to call the foreign ministers’ meeting has been Saudi Arabia’s reluctance to accept Pakistan’s request for one specifically on Kashmir. Riyadh’s support is crucial for any move at the OIC, which is dominated by Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries.

Mr Qureshi said Pakistan skipped Kuala Lumpur Summit last December on Saudi request and now Pakistani Muslims are demanding of Riyadh to “show leadership on the issue”.

We have our own sensitivities. You have to realise this. Gulf countries should understand this,” the foreign minister said, adding that he could no more indulge in diplomatic niceties.

Mr Qureshi made it clear that he was not being emotional and fully understood the implications of his statement. “It’s right, I’m taking a position despite our good ties with Saudi Arabia,” he said.

We cannot stay silent anymore on the sufferings of the Kashmiris,” he said.

Frustration in Islamabad over OIC’s inaction on Kashmir has been growing for months. Prime Minister Khan voiced his concern while speaking at a think-tank during his visit to Malaysia in February.

The reason is that we have no voice and there is a total division amongst [us]. We can’t even come together as a whole on the OIC meeting on Kashmir,” Mr Khan had said.

It should be recalled that Turkey, Malaysia and Iran had unequivocally rejected India’s annexation of Kashmir and voiced serious concerns on atrocities committed by Indian security forces on Kashmiris in the occupied valley.
 
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The Newspaper's Staff Reporter
Updated 06 Aug 2020

5f2b77a6abac1.jpg

FM Shah Mahmood Qureshi says Pakistan skipped Kuala Lumpur summit on Saudi request and now Pakistanis are demanding Riyadh ‘show leadership on the issue’. — DawnNewsTV/File

ISLAMABAD: Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi in an unusually sharp warning asked Saudi Arabia-led Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) on Wednesday to stop dilly-dallying on the convening of a meeting of its Council of Foreign Ministers (CFM) on Kashmir.

Appearing in a talk show on ARY News, the foreign minister said: “I am once again respectfully telling OIC that a meeting of the Council of Foreign Ministers is our expectation. If you cannot convene it, then I’ll be compelled to ask Prime Minister Imran Khan to call a meeting of the Islamic countries that are ready to stand with us on the issue of Kashmir and support the oppressed Kashmiris.

Mr Qureshi said that if OIC fails to summon the CFM meeting, Pakistan would be ready to go for a session outside OIC. In response to another question, he said Pakistan could not wait any further.

Pakistan has been pushing for the foreign ministers’ meeting of the 57-member bloc of Muslim countries, which is the second largest intergovernmental body after the UN, since India annexed occupied Kashmir last August.


Says Pakistan skipped Kuala Lumpur summit on Saudi request and now Pakistanis are demanding Riyadh ‘show leadership on the issue’

Mr Qureshi had at an earlier presser explained the importance of CFM for Pakistan. He had then said that it was needed to send a clear message from Ummah on the Kashmir issue.

Although there has been a meeting of the contact group on Kashmir on the sidelines of UN General Assembly session in New York since last August and OIC’s Independent Permanent Human Rights Commission has made statements on the rights abuses in the occupied valley, but no progress could be made towards the CFM meeting.

A major reason behind the failure to call the foreign ministers’ meeting has been Saudi Arabia’s reluctance to accept Pakistan’s request for one specifically on Kashmir. Riyadh’s support is crucial for any move at the OIC, which is dominated by Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries.

Mr Qureshi said Pakistan skipped Kuala Lumpur Summit last December on Saudi request and now Pakistani Muslims are demanding of Riyadh to “show leadership on the issue”.

We have our own sensitivities. You have to realise this. Gulf countries should understand this,” the foreign minister said, adding that he could no more indulge in diplomatic niceties.

Mr Qureshi made it clear that he was not being emotional and fully understood the implications of his statement. “It’s right, I’m taking a position despite our good ties with Saudi Arabia,” he said.

We cannot stay silent anymore on the sufferings of the Kashmiris,” he said.

Frustration in Islamabad over OIC’s inaction on Kashmir has been growing for months. Prime Minister Khan voiced his concern while speaking at a think-tank during his visit to Malaysia in February.

The reason is that we have no voice and there is a total division amongst [us]. We can’t even come together as a whole on the OIC meeting on Kashmir,” Mr Khan had said.

It should be recalled that Turkey, Malaysia and Iran had unequivocally rejected India’s annexation of Kashmir and voiced serious concerns on atrocities committed by Indian security forces on Kashmiris in the occupied valley.

Ok...I think he should better ask IK to call a meeting....OIC will not do anything. Now the question is which Islamic countries will come in IK's Kashmir meeting....Malaysia will not come...so I guess Turkey, Iran and Qatar?
 
Ok...I think he should better ask IK to call a meeting....OIC will not do anything. Now the question is which Islamic countries will come in IK's Kashmir meeting....Malaysia will not come...so I guess Turkey, Iran and Qatar?
Sir, the very last paragraph mentions the countries who have extended support for Kashmir cause: Turkey, Malaysia and Iran.
 
Saudis have turned OIC into a bloody joke. Pakistan should just exit this waste of space saudi led OIC if we cant even raise an important issue like Kashmir. Since its inception OIC has done nothing to address issues of Muslims world. If idea is to convene an assembly of Arabs for Arabs then they had Arab league dont waste our time.

Qureshi has laid it out very clearly that if Saudi led alliance will not support us then we will pursue a Turkish led separate bloc.
 
This seems connected:

Pakistan pays back $1b Saudi loan

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2258238/pakistan-pays-back-1b-saudi-loan?amp=1


ISLAMABAD:
Pakistan has paid back Saudi Arabia $1 billion out of a $3 billion loan that it secured one and a half year ago to avoid default on international debt obligations after the kingdom decided to reduce its financial support, highly placed sources said.

Pakistan's time-tested friend, China, has immediately come forward and extended $1 billion in loan to help Islamabad avoid any adverse impact of the partial withdrawal of the Saudi lifeline, sources in the Ministry of Finance and the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP) told The Express Tribune on Wednesday.

Officially, the Ministry of Finance declined to comment while the response of SBP chief spokesman was also awaited till the filing of the story.

In October 2018, Saudi Arabia had agreed to provide $6.2 billion worth of financial package to Pakistan for three years. This included $3 billion in cash assistance and $3.2 billion worth of annual oil and gas supply on deferred payments. The Saudi oil facility was already running into trouble.

As per the agreement, the Saudi cash and oil facility was for one year with an option to roll over the amount at the end of the year for a period of three years. Pakistan was paying 3.2% interest on the $3-billion facility, according to the information that the Ministry of Finance shared with the National Assembly.

In its report in April this year, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) stated that "Saudi Arabia also refinanced $3-billion BOP (balance of payments) support loans that matured in November (2019)-January (2020)."

However, the repayment of $1-billion loan within six months of its renewal was surprising.

The same IMF report also stated, "Bilateral creditors have maintained their exposure in line with debt sustainability objectives of the IMF programme."

China maintained its exposure by renewing $2 billion worth of bilateral deposits in March this year while the United Arab Emirates (UAE) also rolled over $1-billion BOP support loans in March, according to the IMF's Rapid Financing Instrument (RFI) loan approval report.

The IMF attaches importance to rollover of all the $14.5 billion worth of debt for Pakistan's debt sustainability that the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) government had secured after coming to power to avoid default on international debt payments.

"Debt sustainability is supported by the agreed rollover of maturing obligations by key bilateral creditors (China, Saudi Arabia and the UAE), as demonstrated by the established track record over the past nine months," according to the IMF's April report.

Sources in the Ministry of Finance said that these countries had also independently assured the IMF that they would not withdraw their financial support to Pakistan.

The IMF is of the view that the rollover of these loans is also critical to reduce gross financing needs to 19.5% of GDP by fiscal year 2025.

In his column "Zero Point", The Express News anchorperson, Javed Chaudhry, also wrote that at a time when Pakistan was changing its political map, the brother Islamic country, Saudi Arabia, withdrew its financial support from Pakistan. Chaudhry highlighted the lack of cooperation from Muslim countries in his article.

Sources said that the Chinese government has provided $1 billion loan to Pakistan to retain the official gross foreign currency reserves at their current levels. Unlike Saudi loan that had been taken on the books of the central bank, the Chinese loan has been taken on the books of the federal government due to another condition of the IMF.

After securing $6.2 billion facility in 2018, including $3 billion cash, Pakistan's Foreign Office had also stated that this arrangement would be in place for three years, which will be reviewed thereafter. Pakistan had received the first tranche of $1 billion in November 2018, second $1 billion in December 2018 and third tranche of $1 billion in January 2019.

Pakistan could also utilise $770 million worth of Saudi oil and gas credit facility on deferred payments in the last fiscal year against the sanctioned annual limit of $3.2 billion. The spokesman of the Petroleum Division, Sajid Qazi, said that the slump in crude oil prices coupled with low demand impacted the facility, hoping that the figures will improve once things return to normalcy.

Prime Minister Imran Khan had twice flown to Saudi Arabia to secure the deal - a journey his close aide Raza Dawood had once described as "awful".

The Saudi facility faced roadblocks since the beginning. Initially, both the countries had a plan to make the facility operational from January 2019. But it actually became operational from July last year.

The United Arab Emirates (UAE) had also announced a $6.2 billion package for Pakistan in December 2018, including $3.2 billion oil facility. But later on, the UAE reduced its financial assistance to $2 billion and also shelved the plan to give $3.2 billion oil facility on deferred payments.

The UAE and Saudi Arabian oil credit facilities were part of the $14.5-billion package agreed with three friendly countries, including China.

The PTI government took over $13 billion in foreign loans in the previous fiscal year - the second highest amount in history - to repay maturing external debt and cushion the shrinking foreign exchange reserves. Since coming into power, the PTI government received $26.2 billion loan and out of that $19.2 billion was used to repay the maturing external debt and the remaining balance was added to the external public and publicly guaranteed debt.
 
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However, he fired the wrong bullet on wrong occasion at the wrong target especially since we are recovering from many of damages
Something may have happened that caused this reaction. I dont believe its his personal view because as you said he is the FM and he cant state his personal views so openly without some sort of national consent.
My point of view is that despite PM Khan's "no war" solution mantra that he states publicly so often, we might be heading towards one and this time we would not want so called Friendly nations in particular SA to hedge their bets on India. Last time Saudi FM few to Pakistan during the skirmish of 27th February, naturally it wasnt meant to support us but rather India because we were in dominant position, it was India that needed a face saving and it was provided to them by the US through SA. Than comes OIC and Saudi Arabia has been constant meddling in OIC agenda over Kashmir, i think Pakistan has had it enough but this must have been discussed with China as well. Yesterday there was a thread where China called Pakistan a pivot, i believe the economical impact of such harsh stance has been discussed with China and after certain assurances we went ahead in calling spade a spade.
 
Sir, the very last paragraph mentions the countries who have extended support for Kashmir cause: Turkey, Malaysia and Iran.

I understand. That was last year...since then Mahatir has gone...so No Malaysia now.... though given Iran/Qatar rivalry with Saudis....and under China's influence...Qatar can be a replacement to Malaysia.
 
This seems connected:

Pakistan pays back $1b Saudi loan

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2258238/pakistan-pays-back-1b-saudi-loan?amp=1


ISLAMABAD:
Pakistan has paid back Saudi Arabia $1 billion out of a $3 billion loan that it secured one and a half year ago to avoid default on international debt obligations after the kingdom decided to reduce its financial support, highly placed sources said.

Pakistan's time-tested friend, China, has immediately come forward and extended $1 billion in loan to help Islamabad avoid any adverse impact of the partial withdrawal of the Saudi lifeline, sources in the Ministry of Finance and the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP) told The Express Tribune on Wednesday.

Officially, the Ministry of Finance declined to comment while the response of SBP chief spokesman was also awaited till the filing of the story.

In October 2018, Saudi Arabia had agreed to provide $6.2 billion worth of financial package to Pakistan for three years. This included $3 billion in cash assistance and $3.2 billion worth of annual oil and gas supply on deferred payments. The Saudi oil facility was already running into trouble.

As per the agreement, the Saudi cash and oil facility was for one year with an option to roll over the amount at the end of the year for a period of three years. Pakistan was paying 3.2% interest on the $3-billion facility, according to the information that the Ministry of Finance shared with the National Assembly.

In its report in April this year, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) stated that "Saudi Arabia also refinanced $3-billion BOP (balance of payments) support loans that matured in November (2019)-January (2020)."

However, the repayment of $1-billion loan within six months of its renewal was surprising.

The same IMF report also stated, "Bilateral creditors have maintained their exposure in line with debt sustainability objectives of the IMF programme."

China maintained its exposure by renewing $2 billion worth of bilateral deposits in March this year while the United Arab Emirates (UAE) also rolled over $1-billion BOP support loans in March, according to the IMF's Rapid Financing Instrument (RFI) loan approval report.

The IMF attaches importance to rollover of all the $14.5 billion worth of debt for Pakistan's debt sustainability that the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) government had secured after coming to power to avoid default on international debt payments.

"Debt sustainability is supported by the agreed rollover of maturing obligations by key bilateral creditors (China, Saudi Arabia and the UAE), as demonstrated by the established track record over the past nine months," according to the IMF's April report.

Sources in the Ministry of Finance said that these countries had also independently assured the IMF that they would not withdraw their financial support to Pakistan.




The IMF is of the view that the rollover of these loans is also critical to reduce gross financing needs to 19.5% of GDP by fiscal year 2025.

In his column "Zero Point", The Express News anchorperson, Javed Chaudhry, also wrote that at a time when Pakistan was changing its political map, the brother Islamic country, Saudi Arabia, withdrew its financial support from Pakistan. Chaudhry highlighted the lack of cooperation from Muslim countries in his article.

Sources said that the Chinese government has provided $1 billion loan to Pakistan to retain the official gross foreign currency reserves at their current levels. Unlike Saudi loan that had been taken on the books of the central bank, the Chinese loan has been taken on the books of the federal government due to another condition of the IMF.

After securing $6.2 billion facility in 2018, including $3 billion cash, Pakistan's Foreign Office had also stated that this arrangement would be in place for three years, which will be reviewed thereafter. Pakistan had received the first tranche of $1 billion in November 2018, second $1 billion in December 2018 and third tranche of $1 billion in January 2019.

Pakistan could also utilise $770 million worth of Saudi oil and gas credit facility on deferred payments in the last fiscal year against the sanctioned annual limit of $3.2 billion. The spokesman of the Petroleum Division, Sajid Qazi, said that the slump in crude oil prices coupled with low demand impacted the facility, hoping that the figures will improve once things return to normalcy.

Prime Minister Imran Khan had twice flown to Saudi Arabia to secure the deal - a journey his close aide Raza Dawood had once described as "awful".

The Saudi facility faced roadblocks since the beginning. Initially, both the countries had a plan to make the facility operational from January 2019. But it actually became operational from July last year.

The United Arab Emirates (UAE) had also announced a $6.2 billion package for Pakistan in December 2018, including $3.2 billion oil facility. But later on, the UAE reduced its financial assistance to $2 billion and also shelved the plan to give $3.2 billion oil facility on deferred payments.

The UAE and Saudi Arabian oil credit facilities were part of the $14.5-billion package agreed with three friendly countries, including China.

The PTI government took over $13 billion in foreign loans in the previous fiscal year - the second highest amount in history - to repay maturing external debt and cushion the shrinking foreign exchange reserves. Since coming into power, the PTI government received $26.2 billion loan and out of that $19.2 billion was used to repay the maturing external debt and the remaining balance was added to the external public and publicly guaranteed debt.

This is not connected. Saudis are suffering a major economic crunch themselves so probably rolling back lots of investments.
 

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