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Pakistan wants to create a self-reliant, self-sustained defense industry

Pakistan army need to coordinate all this activity and all funds should be allocated by them. Pakistan armed forces defense joint command need to be the central hub through which all strategies and direction need to set and spearheaded.
100% disagree

1. It will bolster Indians and other enemies and they can then say "see!! Pakistan is controlled by the military"

2. Army should only be thinking of defense, civilian government needs to bring in good economists (preferably hired from the west) who can then help with strategy and what not.
 
G3 replacement has nothing to do with innovation but budget constraints . replacing the primary weapon for an army of 625,000 Active soldiers is not a piece of cake for a Country like Pakistan who's economy is in shambles .
no. you are not with me. having closed mindset is exactly what is hampered innovation. innovation projects dont need large capital - e.g. a replacement G3 rifle could easily have been designed and tested long long time back.
 
no. you are not with me. having closed mindset is exactly what is hampered innovation. innovation projects dont need large capital - e.g. a replacement G3 rifle could easily have been designed and tested long long time back.

No i get where you coming from, but Budget constraint was one of the biggest issues . Lets Agree to disagree here :)
 
Good Article
The starting point is evidently creating a wall between military decision-making and industry development. Even if the latter remains in the military's hands, the decision-making needs to be more market-oriented than (for a lack of better term) "armory-oriented." HIT, PAC, POF etc., are literal armories that produce predefined systems, but they are not product developers like Turkey's TAI, MKEK, AFSAT AS, etc.

G3 replacement has nothing to do with innovation but budget constraints . replacing the primary weapon for an army of 625,000 Active soldiers is not a piece of cake for a Country like Pakistan who's economy is in shambles .
There are 2 parts to this.

Yes, replacing 1,000,000 rifles is a multi-billion-dollar effort.

But switching POF over from manufacturing old small arms to new generation ones wouldn't cost nearly as much. At this point, it's a question of upgrading the machinery, processes, etc. So we're all asking why that hasn't happened.
 
There are 2 parts to this.

Yes, replacing 1,000,000 rifles is a multi-billion-dollar effort.

But switching POF over from manufacturing old small arms to new generation ones wouldn't cost nearly as much. At this point, it's a question of upgrading the machinery, processes, etc. So we're all asking why that hasn't happened.

Could be corruption or incompetency , but it could be anything but what most of the people miss that from last decade our Army is in a constant battle against Taliban . a big chunk of our military budget goes to those operation and rehabilitation . Last we know that they already started upgrading the machines and infrastructure to produce their next Rifle . Lets hope that CZ bern news was true .
 
The starting point is evidently creating a wall between military decision-making and industry development. Even if the latter remains in the military's hands, the decision-making needs to be more market-oriented than (for a lack of better term) "armory-oriented." HIT, PAC, POF etc., are literal armories that produce predefined systems, but they are not product developers like Turkey's TAI, MKEK, AFSAT AS, etc.
I think the recent conference on involving private sector in defense matters shows that the military itself has come to the conclusion that private sector is the way forward. The mentioning of mining of raw material- like iron ore, etc- also shows that they would like the whole chain sourced from inside Pakistan. I can't help but feel that the plunder of Reko Diq also played a role in the statement regarding "mining". Back to subject, military should no longer handle these things. They will prevent innovation and if government budget decreases, so will the development. Private sector has to carry this forward.

However, it's too late. I think the past twenty years have been wasted. Pakistan has not built an industrialized economy (it's actually de-industrialized now), there is no emphasis on improving university education. The major industries it has are textiles, agriculture, and the biggest one being real estate (people don't want to work, but everyone loves to buy plots, lol). No efforts were made to bring back expatriates who had the potential to transfer the technology. Even those who did come back, faced bureaucratic red-tape in the form of "babus" even in defense organizations. These and many other reasons explain why Pakistan's efforts at "self-sufficiency" or "indigenous" development went no where.

Regardless of what others might think, please take a look at Iran's efforts at indigenous development- not just in defense, but everything from roads, rail, oil & gas plants, electronics, pharmaceuticals, chemicals, etc. They have been sanctioned to the teeth and have done pretty well for themselves, in fact even better than China if you factor the handicap. Iran didn't have anywhere near access to tech like China has- via forcing technology transfers from greedy corporations, hacking, and funding thousands of students abroad. Just to give an example of how Iran stresses this, they pushed really hard in nanotechnology and have exports too.
 
What? I want to know your train of thought. Walk me through this process please and why Iran specifically.

well it's like dis... just recenlty the Iranians blasted a yanki doodle drone out of the skies, an it was quite impressive. A game changer in fact. It's obvious the Pakistani govt would like to have similar capabilities.. nuttin wrong with dat.. which they realise isn't gonna happen whislt they're relying on other countries for military hardaware. Hence the announcement above.

First of all Iran doesn't have a self reliant or self-sustained defence industry. However Americans, Russians, French, German & Chinese do.

ah think yoo'll find it duz
 
well it's like dis... just recenlty the Iranians blasted a yanki doodle drone out of the skies, an it was quite impressive. A game changer in fact. It's obvious the Pakistani govt would like to have similar capabilities.. nuttin wrong with dat.. which they realise isn't gonna happen whislt they're relying on other countries for military hardaware. Hence the announcement above.

That's actually adorable. :lol:
 
ah think yoo'll find it duz

Ok for argument sake lets say Iran does possess it, its capability and capacity is not even close to other nations that i listed previously. So why would we look to be like Iran and not the other countries?
 
100% disagree

1. It will bolster Indians and other enemies and they can then say "see!! Pakistan is controlled by the military"

2. Army should only be thinking of defense, civilian government needs to bring in good economists (preferably hired from the west) who can then help with strategy and what not.
We can't stop mad Indians form barking no matter what we do.

The strategy is for the armed forces to coordinate all government defense expenditure if the civilians want government funding and who better to distribute and monitor the money than PA? It will ensure that only the key projects are focused on and funded and in the context of the strategic needs of PA. It will eliminate duplication, cut out civilian corruption , ensure accountability and transparency to the military. This will create a mean and lean military development machine.

WRONG!. You are putting the same morons who dont know what innovation means. They could not get past G3 rifle until now - that says it all.

Small minds think in small ways, these so called "morons' by you sidelined the need for G3 rifle by focusing on strategic projects but your small mind is set in small ways to be able to see this.
 
100% disagree

1. It will bolster Indians and other enemies and they can then say "see!! Pakistan is controlled by the military"

2. Army should only be thinking of defense, civilian government needs to bring in good economists (preferably hired from the west) who can then help with strategy and what not.
Not sure how defense industry control can be extended to whole of Pakistan?
Economists are useless other than for measuring the apparent.
 
Can anyone with experience comment?

@Oscar @messiach

Pakistan wants to create a self-reliant, self-sustained defense industry

By: Usman Ansari

ISLAMABAD — The Pakistani government is promoting aims to increase public-private cooperation and develop a self-reliant, self-sustained defense industry. But the private sector is skeptical.

The aims were outlined by Army chief, General Qamar Javed Bajwa, in a government-hosted seminar earlier this month, which included public and private sector representatives.

The seminar recommended establishment of a task force to develop a roadmap for aiding indigenous defense production, establishing a raw material industry in conjunction with the private sector, utilizing surplus production capacity for export, and establishing ‘digital parks’ to exploit software industry potential and promote university level research and development.

However, Shehzad Ahmed Mir, managing director of Bow Systems Ltd, a private sector defense contracting company, says bureaucratic resistance needs to be overcome.

“Army chiefs come and go, only policies stay. So far there is no government policy to support such repetitive statements made by many an armed forces chief,” he said.

Mir blames Pakistan’s civilian bureaucracy for resisting change.

“The problem lies in the acceptance of the bare fact that private industry can do the job far better, and at much lower cost than these bureaucrats. Unless the defense ministry in Pakistan seriously invites the private industry to sit across the table, go through a lengthy and complex process of negotiations to formulate a standard policy for such matters, such statements are worthless in the business world.”

Exports are a key aspect of the drive, but the problems Mir highlights have already taken their toll. For example, one of Pakistan’s main defense equipment exporters is state-owned Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF), but its main focus is meeting domestic military requirements. Only when these are fulfilled is any spare production capacity given over for commercial orders, which private defense contractors and even POF officials highlight as restricting export potential.

Also noteworthy, Pakistan may already have killed off a golden egg laying goose.

The head of UAV firm Integrated Dynamics (ID), Raja S Khan, says the once thriving private UAV industry essentially collapsed when state bodies took their projects in house.

ID has had notable export success, including with U.S. Border Patrol. It is most renowned though for developing the Shahpar UAV, later developed into the Burraq armed drone. China weaponized the drone, further developing and successfully exporting it as the CH-3/5 series, for which Pakistan appears to receive nothing.

Khan believes the “major element” required to revive the industry and make it an export competitor is a UAV regulatory policy to “allow private sector entities to develop and test their designs.”

India has recently introduced its UAV regulatory policy and is far more proactive in allowing its private sector a foothold in the global UAV industry by freely allowing test zones, development and access to regulatory permissions for registered users," he noted. “Nothing of the sort exists in Pakistan and even a company with the track record of ID is at a loss to test new developments in the absence of regulatory permissions and no accessible or designated flight test zones.”

He is not optimistic for the future.

“The future of development and our export potential looks bleak unless these issues are addressed with policies formulated with UAV professionals on board.”

Mir agrees.

“Pakistan has the defense production equation all wrong and for the wrong reasons," he said. "Unless that changes for the better and the private sector is not only asked to take the lead, but also the defense setups invest in conceptual programs, our defense needs will remain slave to the ‘no cost no obligation basis’ mantra of the military as a user.”
Well yall can stop hoping for that anymore. The PAF was the first to shoot it's own country in the foot.
 
self relience and independent - Americans extended TST contract more USofficials @ Pak Air force bases... LPC to independence!
 

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