Pakistan want to purchase 150 JF-17 Engines from Russia

[DESERT FIGHTER]

It is a very wise decision to buy 150 RD-93 engines. The next step is to acquire overhauling capability under licence along with a lot of spare parts. That way planes will keep flying. The next step is to manufacture the engines under licence. Then all the individual parts of the engine should be manufactured under licence. Once this process is streamlined then designing an engine can be seriously considered.
I believe people at Kamra are doing a good job. They know all this and a lot more. Lets hope the future is bright.

RD engines are overhauled by PAC..

 

[amardeep mishra]

Bro,

Pakistan is not even close to developing an indigenous engine of a car, let alone a Jet Fighter. Even an Industrial giant like China is struggling in this area.

Hi @LeGenD
I wish to add my two cents.I know exactly how complicated this engine design business really is! I mean,after having spent close to $0.6-0.7 billion dollars in gas turbine research GTRE(bangalore) couldnt really make the kaveri reliable enough for fighter operations. And that has something to do with "acoustic instability"- this is a phenomenon common to all Gas turbines,it's just that various manufacturers deal with it in different ways. What makes situation tough for new comers like india and china in this field is the fact that in these countries(particularly in india and to some extent in china),the concept of acoustic instability is not well understood by a vast section of academia. It is only now(past a decade) that acoustic instability has been studied very seriously here in india. In fact one of my professor holds a patent on prediction of onset of acoustic instability in GTs. This is something very important because these techniques are all patented and west rarely shares the research with country like india. As for pakistan, designing a Gas turbine engine is strictly out of her industrial capacity- itz not like nukes you can get bits and pieces from companies and make your own. A reliable GT is a different ball game altogether!
Pakistan would first have to build her basic concepts in various critical problems associated with gas turbine and only then can they even ambrace such a project- provided they have enough cash to just fund a "engine development program" that might eventually consume something in the vicinity of $1 billion!

 

[HAIDER]

Very old news. Its better to keep Chinese channel, instead of going directly to Russia. Chinese know how to handle Russian bureaucracy.

 

[Spectre]

Hi @LeGenD
I wish to add my two cents.I know exactly how complicated this engine design business really is! I mean,after having spent close to $0.6-0.7 billion dollars in gas turbine research GTRE(bangalore) couldnt really make the kaveri reliable enough for fighter operations. And that has something to do with "acoustic instability"- this is a phenomenon common to all Gas turbines,it's just that various manufacturers deal with it in different ways. What makes situation tough for new comers like india and china in this field is the fact that in these countries(particularly in india and to some extent in china),the concept of acoustic instability is not well understood by a vast section of academia. It is only now(past a decade) that acoustic instability has been studied very seriously here in india. In fact one of my professor holds a patent on prediction of onset of acoustic instability in GTs. This is something very important because these techniques are all patented and west rarely shares the research with country like india. As for pakistan, designing a Gas turbine engine is strictly out of her industrial capacity- itz not like nukes you can get bits and pieces from companies and make your own. A reliable GT is a different ball game altogether!
Pakistan would first have to build her basic concepts in various critical problems associated with gas turbine and only then can they even ambrace such a project- provided they have enough cash to just fund a "engine development program" that might eventually consume something in the vicinity of $1 billion!

How about access to if not the exact details then atleast the fundamentals of the tech in discussion to the Indian doctoral candidates as such in US universities. Are there restrictions placed?

 

[amardeep mishra]

How about access to if not the exact details then atleast the fundamentals of the tech in discussion to the Indian doctoral candidates as such in US universities. Are there restrictions placed?

I know one of my friend's friend (a grad from IIT KGP-2008 batch) who worked on scramjet engine at DRDO was denied admission in cornell or some university because of his background. So,i guess,sensitive technologies are something that americans still hold very tight to themselves

 

[fitpOsitive]

Engine china se aain ya russia se, ferq kia perhta hai, chez tu woi hai. Yeh baat samajh nai aarahi boss.

 

[ZedZeeshan]

I know one of my friend's friend (a grad from IIT KGP-2008 batch) who worked on scramjet engine at DRDO was denied admission in cornell or some university because of his background. So,i guess,sensitive technologies are something that americans still hold very tight to themselves

You may be right...even Pakistani's are not allowed to study nuclear physics in any university of west.

 

[khanasifm]

4000 hours airframe life and 2200 engine life I assume they would need at least 2 engines during the life or more if life is airframe is extended beyond 4000 hours

 

[cloud4000]

Very old news. Its better to keep Chinese channel, instead of going directly to Russia. Chinese know how to handle Russian bureaucracy.

The Russians are like the Americans, both are moody when it comes to selling weapons to Pakistan. Sooner JF-17 gets a Chinese-made engine the better.

I know one of my friend's friend (a grad from IIT KGP-2008 batch) who worked on scramjet engine at DRDO was denied admission in cornell or some university because of his background. So,i guess,sensitive technologies are something that americans still hold very tight to themselves

You may be right...even Pakistani's are not allowed to study nuclear physics in any university of west.

This doesn't sound right. What's being taught at US universities that bars certain foreigners from studying there? More likely graduate students were denied permission to work on certain projects, especially those financed by US government.

 

[Penguin]

Logical!

Pakistan to stick with RD-93 engine for JF-17, say PAF officials
18 November 2015: The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) has no plans to replace the JF-17 fighter's Klimov/Sarkisov RD-93 powerplant despite Chinese suggestions otherwise, according to Pakistan Air Force (PAF) officials.
PAC representatives added that the next step is to establish a full-scale servicing and overhaul facility for the RD-93 at their plant in Kamra.
"What does this tell you?" asked one programme officer rhetorically. "If the situation was as it has been portrayed at times - that we are just utilising the RD-93 as a temporary solution until the Chinese can 'save' us with their own new engine - then we would not be expending the resources to set up this overhaul base. For us, changing to another engine would not make any sense and would be disruptive and cause a huge expense for the JF-17 programme."

Pakistan to stick with RD-93 engine for JF-17, say PAF officials | IHS Jane's 360

BOth the engine purchase and the overhaul facility are important because the RD-93 is:
"Designed specifically for FC-1 with increased thrust and relocated gearbox compared to base RD-33's. ... The increase of thrust decreased the service life of RD-93 to 2200 hours from RD-33's 4000 hours"
Klimov RD-33 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United Engine Corporation -

JF-17 “Thunder” fighter or CAC FC-1 Xiaolong jets | Thai Military and Asian Region

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

You may be right...even Pakistani's are not allowed to study nuclear physics in any university of west.

More likely graduate students were denied permission to work on certain projects, especially those financed by US government.

It's certain projects/ more narrow field of study in certain fields.

Universities are pretty much heavily funded by the State & Federal governments, specific fields such as propulsion for instance would be funded by Boeing or GE etc. and they've placed strict restrictions of who professors can take on not only as paid researchers but unpaid interns.

 

[MastanKhan]

It's certain projects/ more narrow field of study in certain fields.

Universities are pretty much heavily funded by the State & Federal governments, specific fields such as propulsion for instance would be funded by Boeing or GE etc. and they've placed strict restrictions of who professors can take on not only as paid researchers but unpaid interns.

Hi,

Like iranian students could not get admission into nuclear physics since the 80's.

 

[!eon]

Ok, but Pakistan should now try to make a engine of our own. I am sure our engineers are fully capable & are in position to make a engine of our own. This will only enable Pakistan to become self sufficient & help our engineers to go into the next level.

That's not about capability or incapability.
Thing is, first virus of corruption and then sencond mindset. If you don't want to do something, you can't do that for your whole life.
This haramkhori and mindset has penetrated deep. People want to make jet engines by starting production lines of motorcycle engine.Soon you will see PAF motorcycles on road..

It's like I shall invent my own alphabets then bring a new English. Today's English is too much difficult I can't learn it.

 

[fatman17]

Once Putin visits Pakistan then things will move forward. He cancelled his last visit 2 years ago.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

RD engines are overhauled by PAC..

PAC has no capability to overhaul RD engines.

Very old news. Its better to keep Chinese channel, instead of going directly to Russia. Chinese know how to handle Russian bureaucracy.

Why to keep Chinese channel? Chinese are screwing Pakistan majorly on the Engine, but overpricing everything, and not providing support so that Pakistan gets frustrated and opts for their prototype RE product. Pakistan should work with Russia or through third parties that can offer support on RD93 new engines, overhaul, and spares in much reasonable terms than the Chinese.