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Pakistan vindicated: Modi’s Balochistan reference self-incriminating: Aziz

India never said it supports Baluchistan movement. What it says it that you have no business poking into India's matter, when Pakistan itself violates human rights in Balochistan. You may be the only country that bombs your own citizens and allows other powers to bomb them too.

@Spectre

http://indianexpress.com/article/op...ations-and-worse-for-baloch-struggle-2977458/

Modi’s Balochistan gamble: Bad portents for Indo-Pak relations and worse for Baloch struggle

Modi has announced the opening of a new chapter on relations with Pakistan. It does not read well, and it has discredited the Baloch struggle.

Written by Nirupama Subramanian | Updated: August 16, 2016 10:36 am




Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s remarks on Balochistan, Gilgit Baltistan and Pakistan occupied Kashmir at his Independence Day speech announce a new chapter in India-Pakistan relations, one that not only serves to equate Kashmir with Balochistan but also India with Pakistan. Both hold bad portents.

This is what Modi said:

“Today from the ramparts of Red Fort, I want to greet and express my thanks to some people. In the last few days, people of Balochistan, Gilgit, Pakistan Occupied Kashmir have thanked me, have expressed gratitude, and expressed good wishes for me. The people who are living far away, whom I have never seen, never met – such people have expressed appreciation for Prime Minister of India, for 125 crore countrymen. This is an honour for our countrymen.”

The remarks were a continuation of what Modi said at the all-party meet on Kashmir earlier in the week. He had said at the meet:

“Pakistan forgets that it bombs its own citizens using fighter planes. The time has come when Pakistan shall have to answer to the world for the atrocities committed by it against people in Balochistan and Azad Kashmir.”

And,

“Ministry of External Affairs should make efforts to approach the people of Azad Kashmir residing in different parts of world and collect information about the miserable conditions in Azad Kashmir and bring them to the knowledge of the world community.”.

Baloch liberation activists immediately thanked Modi for extending his support to them.

Whether or not Modi’s words mean that the gloves are now off and that Indian policy on Pakistan is to now officially include fomenting unrest in Balochistan, and Azad Kashmir remains unclear but this is the impression that has now gone out to the world.



India, which has made a case in every international fora that Pakistan sponsors terrorism in Kashmir, has laid itself open to a similar charge vis a vis Balochistan and other areas of Pakistan.

Until now, New Delhi, despite its own mistakes in Kashmir, had managed to keep a high moral ground over Pakistan when it came to cross-border terrorism. Years of diplomacy and evidence gathering had gone into convincing the world that Pakistani terrorist groups, with recruits from the southern parts of the Pakistan province of Punjab, were being trained in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir to launch attacks in Jammu & Kashmir and the rest of India.

Pakistan has maintained all along that India meddles in Balochistan and funds the Baloch Liberation Army. Pakistanis also believe that the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, which targets Pakistani citizens and security forces, are supported by Indian intelligence agencies. For years, Pakistan has pointed to the Indian consulates in Afghan border towns as launching pads for alleged Indian-backed terrorist activities in Pakistan. But apart from absurdly declaring that the terrorists it caught or killed were not circumcised — thus not Muslim and therefore RAW’s covert army — and that weapons seized from them had Indian markings, it was never able to furnish solid evidence to support its claims.

Indeed, when the ill-fated India-Pakistan Anti-Terrorism Mechanism set up in 2006 met for the first and last time in 2007, Pakistan handed over a dossier with “evidence” of the Indian hand in Balochistan. It consisted of a 100 press clippings in a Sindhi nationalist newspaper whose owner lived in Delhi, and a photograph of an Indian High Commission official at a London meeting of Baloch separatists. With a dossier like that, even if India was engaging in covert activities in Pakistan, it was able to laugh off the claims.

Though the circumstances behind the April 2016 arrest of Kulbhushan Jadhav remain unclear, it was Pakistan’s first real opportunity to change the optics. Pakistan claimed that the ex-Indian Navy man, no less than a high-ranking commodore, was in fact a serving officer and that he had been caught in Balochistan. Pakistan said he was behind several terrorist bombings in that restive province. India retaliated by giving a Baloch activist settled in the U.S, Naeela Qadir, a visa to visit India. She toured Delhi and Chandigarh, holding press conferences and speaking to the strategic community. That India was preparing to take a more aggressive line on Balochistan first came to light when last year, a Baloch activist living in New Delhi since 2009 came out in the open and addressed a public meeting in the capital about the Baloch struggle. But now with a few hundred words during his Independence Day speech and at the all-party meeting, the Prime Minister has himself owned this policy, giving Pakistan a huge helping hand to drive home its Indian-hand claim about the Baloch struggle. Perhaps worse than this is that in one swoop, Modi has discredited the struggle’s indigenous moorings.



Modi’s remarks are hardly the language that an NSG aspirant, let alone a Security Council aspirant should be using but clearly Modi’s advisers on these issues think otherwise. Even if New Delhi now claims that it is offering only diplomatic support to the “oppressed people” of Balochistan, that claim will be treated exactly in the same way that the world treats Pakistan’s profession of “diplomatic support to the people of Kashmir”.

While those in India who call for a more “muscular” Pakistan policy applaud from the front rows, here are a few reality-checks on Balochistan, Gilgit-Baltistan and Pakistan occupied Kashmir:

There was a time when India did not want the “B” word mentioned with the “K” word as it was Pakistan that was intent on equalising “terrorism” in Balochistan with India’s allegation of cross-border terror in Kashmir. Putting the two together in a joint statement in 2009 led to outrage in the BJP, unnerved Manmohan Singh and led to his abandonment by the Congress. After Modi’s remarks, Pakistan will throw back “terrorism” in Balochistan every time India brings up Mumbai 2008, or Pathankot 2016, or cross-border terrorism in general.

What is done is done, but New Delhi hopefully knows that the struggle in Balochistan is not the same as the Kashmir problem.

Kashmir is contested between India and Pakistan and divided between the two countries. Balochistan’s problem dates back to a dodgy accession forced on the Khan of Kalat by a newly formed Pakistan, but there is no other country involved. In that sense, it is more like the Naga movement for secession than the “azadi” movement in Kashmir.

What if China, with whom Pakistan has an evergreen relationship, pledges support for the Naga cause in the same way that India has promised to take up Balochistan? Also, India once carried out bombings in Mizoram, just as Modi has accused Pakistan of doing now.

As for Gilgit Baltistan, they are unhappy about the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor because of environmental concerns, and how the regions rich natural resources may get plundered, but being united with India is not on their wish-list. What Gilgit-Baltistan wants most is to become Pakistan’s “fifth province” so that it has the same constitutional rights, guarantees and privileges that the other four — Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan and Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa – enjoy. A majority of the people in G-B are Shia, so they also fear for their lives at the hands of terroists driven by Sunni extremism, but believe that once they become a province, they can better secure their lives. At the very least, G-B wants the same constitutional status that Pakistan Occupied Kashmir enjoys in Pakistan. The people of Gilgit-Baltistan have family connections in the Kargil region, but zero connect with New Delhi. There is no cause here for New Delhi to lobby except to claim that this region is part of undivided Jammu & Kashmir.

Read | Narendra Modi’s Independence Day speech: PM throws down Balochistan gauntlet

As for Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, there is no popular unrest there. There were a few protest by Imran Khan’s Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf , that it did not win any seats in last month’s elections, but Khan is now famous for declaring every election rigged when he does not win seats. Even discounting the fact that the ruling party in Islamabad always wins elections in Azad Kashmir, Nawaz Sharif’s party, Pakistan Muslim League (N) won a landslide victory, taking 32 out of 42 seats. The military has an iron grip over Azad Kashmir affairs, but much as India might wish, there is no people’s movement against this. Most people living in Azad Kashmir think of themselves as Pakistanis, and many of them have become Punjabi-fied.

If Modi’s remarks mean that the gloves are indeed off, then the stage js now set for move and counter-move, not necessarily of the diplomatic kind, locking the two nuclear-armed neighbour in enmity forever.
 
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Modi had only THANKED people living in certain parts of Pakistan

AND Pakistan has ERUPTED

The hell gonna break lose, If and When Modi will PROVOKE these people to rise against the rulers. :enjoy:
 
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The second successive diplomatic mistake by Modi. Pakistan will and should capitalize on the issue and bring the Kubashan story online again. Modi's foolies are a blessing in disguise for Pakistan. I wish he keeps making such foolies in future as well.
 
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There is a background to it ...Pakistan had been accusing India of causing troubles in Baluchistan .. Even the Americans know that (Remeber what Chuck Hagel said ? ) ... Then the arrest of Kulbhushan Yadav ... And now the Indian PM openly talking about Baluchistan !!! ... You really think you have not (implicitly) acknowledged anything ?? .....

Chuck Hagel who? For every Chuck Hagel we have 100s of foreign officials from generals, to secretary of states, to senate leaders, to congressmen acknowledging and condemning Pakistan's support and sanctuary to terrorist groups.

Pakistan's accusation consisted of press clippings, no matter or substance and as for KulBhushan Yadav, we would like you to release the kidnapped retired official whom you are illegally detailing without consular access.
 
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When you are facing a coward liar enemy you show him the mirror. Fighting liars is not a gentleman's art.
Cowards surrendered
last time
I remembered.

Pakistan is at another important point in its troubled history. It has been used or rather pakistan let itself being used before for greater games by world powers and it is being used again.
For what ? Kashmir.....
Why it is willing to risk the whole nation and it's population for a cause that has been lost long ago. It is hard to understand. And now it has managed to push India to bring Balochistan into the picture.
As someone said, "How in God’s name do you go from being on the winning side of the biggest contest of the 20th century to being on the losing side before the 21st gets fully under way?"
 
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So it means Pakistan can also raise voice on human right violation in Gujarat massacre where thousands died, Dalits treatment, brutalities of Bharti forces in Northeast , Maharashtra's hundred of thousands farmers suicide bcoz of Bharti colonial regime.. Khalistan etc

ofcourse.. infact you regularly do so atleast for the Muslim related violance

It is just a personal opinion piece, not an editorial or govt position. She has her opinion and I have mine and you have yours - all with no official endorsement

@Spectre

http://indianexpress.com/article/op...ations-and-worse-for-baloch-struggle-2977458/

Modi’s Balochistan gamble: Bad portents for Indo-Pak relations and worse for Baloch struggle

Modi has announced the opening of a new chapter on relations with Pakistan. It does not read well, and it has discredited the Baloch struggle.

Written by Nirupama Subramanian | Updated: August 16, 2016 10:36 am




Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s remarks on Balochistan, Gilgit Baltistan and Pakistan occupied Kashmir at his Independence Day speech announce a new chapter in India-Pakistan relations, one that not only serves to equate Kashmir with Balochistan but also India with Pakistan. Both hold bad portents.

This is what Modi said:

“Today from the ramparts of Red Fort, I want to greet and express my thanks to some people. In the last few days, people of Balochistan, Gilgit, Pakistan Occupied Kashmir have thanked me, have expressed gratitude, and expressed good wishes for me. The people who are living far away, whom I have never seen, never met – such people have expressed appreciation for Prime Minister of India, for 125 crore countrymen. This is an honour for our countrymen.”

The remarks were a continuation of what Modi said at the all-party meet on Kashmir earlier in the week. He had said at the meet:

“Pakistan forgets that it bombs its own citizens using fighter planes. The time has come when Pakistan shall have to answer to the world for the atrocities committed by it against people in Balochistan and Azad Kashmir.”

And,

“Ministry of External Affairs should make efforts to approach the people of Azad Kashmir residing in different parts of world and collect information about the miserable conditions in Azad Kashmir and bring them to the knowledge of the world community.”.

Baloch liberation activists immediately thanked Modi for extending his support to them.

Whether or not Modi’s words mean that the gloves are now off and that Indian policy on Pakistan is to now officially include fomenting unrest in Balochistan, and Azad Kashmir remains unclear but this is the impression that has now gone out to the world.



India, which has made a case in every international fora that Pakistan sponsors terrorism in Kashmir, has laid itself open to a similar charge vis a vis Balochistan and other areas of Pakistan.

Until now, New Delhi, despite its own mistakes in Kashmir, had managed to keep a high moral ground over Pakistan when it came to cross-border terrorism. Years of diplomacy and evidence gathering had gone into convincing the world that Pakistani terrorist groups, with recruits from the southern parts of the Pakistan province of Punjab, were being trained in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir to launch attacks in Jammu & Kashmir and the rest of India.

Pakistan has maintained all along that India meddles in Balochistan and funds the Baloch Liberation Army. Pakistanis also believe that the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, which targets Pakistani citizens and security forces, are supported by Indian intelligence agencies. For years, Pakistan has pointed to the Indian consulates in Afghan border towns as launching pads for alleged Indian-backed terrorist activities in Pakistan. But apart from absurdly declaring that the terrorists it caught or killed were not circumcised — thus not Muslim and therefore RAW’s covert army — and that weapons seized from them had Indian markings, it was never able to furnish solid evidence to support its claims.

Indeed, when the ill-fated India-Pakistan Anti-Terrorism Mechanism set up in 2006 met for the first and last time in 2007, Pakistan handed over a dossier with “evidence” of the Indian hand in Balochistan. It consisted of a 100 press clippings in a Sindhi nationalist newspaper whose owner lived in Delhi, and a photograph of an Indian High Commission official at a London meeting of Baloch separatists. With a dossier like that, even if India was engaging in covert activities in Pakistan, it was able to laugh off the claims.

Though the circumstances behind the April 2016 arrest of Kulbhushan Jadhav remain unclear, it was Pakistan’s first real opportunity to change the optics. Pakistan claimed that the ex-Indian Navy man, no less than a high-ranking commodore, was in fact a serving officer and that he had been caught in Balochistan. Pakistan said he was behind several terrorist bombings in that restive province. India retaliated by giving a Baloch activist settled in the U.S, Naeela Qadir, a visa to visit India. She toured Delhi and Chandigarh, holding press conferences and speaking to the strategic community. That India was preparing to take a more aggressive line on Balochistan first came to light when last year, a Baloch activist living in New Delhi since 2009 came out in the open and addressed a public meeting in the capital about the Baloch struggle. But now with a few hundred words during his Independence Day speech and at the all-party meeting, the Prime Minister has himself owned this policy, giving Pakistan a huge helping hand to drive home its Indian-hand claim about the Baloch struggle. Perhaps worse than this is that in one swoop, Modi has discredited the struggle’s indigenous moorings.



Modi’s remarks are hardly the language that an NSG aspirant, let alone a Security Council aspirant should be using but clearly Modi’s advisers on these issues think otherwise. Even if New Delhi now claims that it is offering only diplomatic support to the “oppressed people” of Balochistan, that claim will be treated exactly in the same way that the world treats Pakistan’s profession of “diplomatic support to the people of Kashmir”.

While those in India who call for a more “muscular” Pakistan policy applaud from the front rows, here are a few reality-checks on Balochistan, Gilgit-Baltistan and Pakistan occupied Kashmir:

There was a time when India did not want the “B” word mentioned with the “K” word as it was Pakistan that was intent on equalising “terrorism” in Balochistan with India’s allegation of cross-border terror in Kashmir. Putting the two together in a joint statement in 2009 led to outrage in the BJP, unnerved Manmohan Singh and led to his abandonment by the Congress. After Modi’s remarks, Pakistan will throw back “terrorism” in Balochistan every time India brings up Mumbai 2008, or Pathankot 2016, or cross-border terrorism in general.

What is done is done, but New Delhi hopefully knows that the struggle in Balochistan is not the same as the Kashmir problem.

Kashmir is contested between India and Pakistan and divided between the two countries. Balochistan’s problem dates back to a dodgy accession forced on the Khan of Kalat by a newly formed Pakistan, but there is no other country involved. In that sense, it is more like the Naga movement for secession than the “azadi” movement in Kashmir.

What if China, with whom Pakistan has an evergreen relationship, pledges support for the Naga cause in the same way that India has promised to take up Balochistan? Also, India once carried out bombings in Mizoram, just as Modi has accused Pakistan of doing now.

As for Gilgit Baltistan, they are unhappy about the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor because of environmental concerns, and how the regions rich natural resources may get plundered, but being united with India is not on their wish-list. What Gilgit-Baltistan wants most is to become Pakistan’s “fifth province” so that it has the same constitutional rights, guarantees and privileges that the other four — Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan and Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa – enjoy. A majority of the people in G-B are Shia, so they also fear for their lives at the hands of terroists driven by Sunni extremism, but believe that once they become a province, they can better secure their lives. At the very least, G-B wants the same constitutional status that Pakistan Occupied Kashmir enjoys in Pakistan. The people of Gilgit-Baltistan have family connections in the Kargil region, but zero connect with New Delhi. There is no cause here for New Delhi to lobby except to claim that this region is part of undivided Jammu & Kashmir.

Read | Narendra Modi’s Independence Day speech: PM throws down Balochistan gauntlet

As for Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, there is no popular unrest there. There were a few protest by Imran Khan’s Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf , that it did not win any seats in last month’s elections, but Khan is now famous for declaring every election rigged when he does not win seats. Even discounting the fact that the ruling party in Islamabad always wins elections in Azad Kashmir, Nawaz Sharif’s party, Pakistan Muslim League (N) won a landslide victory, taking 32 out of 42 seats. The military has an iron grip over Azad Kashmir affairs, but much as India might wish, there is no people’s movement against this. Most people living in Azad Kashmir think of themselves as Pakistanis, and many of them have become Punjabi-fied.

If Modi’s remarks mean that the gloves are indeed off, then the stage js now set for move and counter-move, not necessarily of the diplomatic kind, locking the two nuclear-armed neighbour in enmity forever.
 
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Pakistan had always alleged india was involved in terrorism in neighbouring countries

LTTE in Sri Lanka, TTP, BLA on Balaochistan/Pakistan

Now india's FM and Modi have admitted to being state sponsors of terrorism

The second successive diplomatic mistake by Modi. Pakistan will and should capitalize on the issue and bring the Kubashan story online again. Modi's foolies are a blessing in disguise for Pakistan. I wish he keeps making such foolies in future as well.

I cant believe indians dont get how much of a foot in mouth moment this is for India
 
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Inshallah! Subhanallah! Mashaallah!
Alhamduliallah!!!

Balochistan Zindabad!
Gilgit Baltistan Zindabad!
Khyber Phaktunvah Zindabad!
Sindhistan Zindabad!
Extended Durand Line Afghan Border Zindabad!
United Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir Zindabad!
Inshallah! Subhanallah! Mashaallah!
Alhamduliallah!!!

Arey aap Musalman hogaye....Mubarak ho....Aj se apka naya naam mehbooba mufti hai.....
 
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surprising to see the reaction of people from other side of LOC. Just one thanks statement has made them panic.They know if the cause of supporting Baluchistan goes fledged what will happen to pakistan.

You guessed it right another country in making (looks like you have forgotten 71)
 
. .
ofcourse.. infact you regularly do so atleast for the Muslim related violance

we are party in Kashmir dispute, we will raise our voice, we never dictate India about Indian states..
 
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Inshallah! Subhanallah! Mashaallah!
Alhamduliallah!!!

Balochistan Zindabad!
Gilgit Baltistan Zindabad!
Khyber Phaktunvah Zindabad!
Sindhistan Zindabad!
Extended Durand Line Afghan Border Zindabad!
United Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir Zindabad!
Inshallah! Subhanallah! Mashaallah!
Alhamduliallah!!!
You could've simply said : Pakistan Zindabad!!!:pakistan:

The fact that India’s Prime Minister himself has spoken of Baluchistan from the ramparts of the Red Fort when entire foreign diplomatic corps was present has vindicated Pakistan’s stance that New Delhi is fomenting terrorism in the volatile province. A huge shift in New Delhi's policy ... Whether India gains (or loses) anything from this is yet to be seen, but the Indians have greatly damaged the Baluch cause. From now on, the Baluch resistance/insurgency will be largely seen/suspected as Indian-funded/supported movement .... In fact, India has made Pakistan's "work" in Baluchistan much easier now ...
Exactly, India has single handedly managed to destroy the entire "Baloch" movement (not that it was thriving, pro-Pakistan nationalism is at a rampant rise; even among the ranks of BLO and the nearly defunct BLA.). It was a retarded move by Modi in frustration.

Yes i can but i didn't said.....:cheesy:
You know why:yahoo: very well...
No I don't know, why?
 
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country’s top foreign policy wizard
Is that Aziz? Policy wizard? :haha: Lol! Then I'm Santa Clause! :D

Ok, seriously, PM Modi never mentioned militarily helping the Balochis for independence like you guys have been blatantly doing in Kashmir since the past over three decades of conducting a proxy war with the help of terror yahoos like the LeT, JeM etc. providing them with arms ammo explosives and war like equipment. 60,000 AKs and UMGs, thousands of grenade launchers and IEDs and a million rounds of ammo, enough to equip three infantry divisions have been captured from these idiots who are being used as cannon fodder by your Establishment.

And you say this is an internal uprising? Lol! You think we and the world are imbeciles to believe this rubbish?
 
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