Pakistan-US joint air exercise - Falcon Talon III

[JohnWick]

Let JF-17 go against the F-18, let them do a real "What you can do, i can do better."

F-18 is definitely better than JF-17

PS: I don't think PAF is going to buy any new F-16s ( Block 70 or 80 or 90 ).

PAF happily boight old mlu F-16s.How they can reject new blk70?

Is F16 still worth of you doing these?

F-16 blk70 is comparable to your J-16D.

Would be good if only jf17s

JFT blk 1&2 do not have such potential.
When blk 3 will come out ....there will be probably of a chance to deploy it.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Let's not pretend that everything is okay between Pakistan and the US. It boggles my mind how people have such short memories. We have been through hell for the past 17+ years. Our security has suffered. Our economy has suffered. These same Americans threatened to balkanize and destroy Pakistan's existence every other day. Our soldiers got killed in broad daylight. They want us to believe it was a mistake. I can go on and on. 17 years of treachery, backstabbing and bloodshed.

Some of us just want to pretend it never happened or just to forget it all. The exercise sends a wrong and confused message. Exercises happen between friendly nations that are on equal terms. The US and Pakistan are not on equal terms.

The USAF isn't coming to Pakistan to hold an exercise because they love us. They are here for their own interests. Ever since Pakistan and China have joined hands the Americans are up in flames. Read and watch their media. They don't hide their ill feelings towards China Pakistan cooperation. CPEC/Gwadar is an absolute thorn in the American eyes. Not a day goes by and all we hear and read on US media is CPEC/Gwadar. Do I need to continue?

On what basis are we going to hold an exercise when there is such huge mistrust? This is exactly what the whole world keeps questioning. What kind of allies are Pakistan and the US? The mistrust is no secret to anyone yet there is such a discrepancy when it comes to this weird relationship.

 

[JohnWick]

They can mouth off all they want, the fact is USAF is always very keen to test it's best with the PAF, apart from our F-16s, they even tested the F-22 against our humble F-7.

Thats...3rd gen vs 5th gen.

 

[Trango Towers]

F-18 is definitely better than JF-17

PAF happily boight old mlu F-16s.How they can reject new blk70?


F-16 blk70 is comparable to your J-16D.


JFT blk 1&2 do not have such potential.
When blk 3 will come out ....there will be probably a chanxe to deploy it.

Trust me block 1 and 2 are more than capable

 

[JohnWick]

Trust me block 1 and 2 are more than capable

OK!

 

[MIRauf]

JohnWick, Block 70 may be godsend, but PAF has learned it lesson when paying upfront for US made military gear. No one wants to put up 100s of $Million or 1+ $Billion for gear and end up receiving soybeans and or Wheat. Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me.

I don't know which is better, F-18 probably as one on one with no AEW assets in the air, however with AEW coverage, guiding JF-17 and E-2 guiding F-18, could be very interesting. Although I am sure AIM-120D or which ever F-18 is sporing would likely out reach SD-10A.

PS: F-15X => J-16, when comparing overall package such as Payload, range, etc, else J-16 is a beast designed to do same as F-15E, I wouldn't call F-16-Block 70 overall package => J-16., but that is just my Opinion.

 

[patriotpakistan]

I'd avoid allowing them to assess the Thunder, Chinese drones, AEWACS, missiles etc. Other than that, with Windows XP running in Pakistan's central air defence command along with Avax anti-virus, and the years they had free access to Shahbaz and the entire country in general, means they are intimately familiar with our territory.

But the exercise itself has benefits for PAF. Let us not forget, PAF has acquired its edge through American training. Pitting our pilots against Americans is the best way to teach them practical combat skills.

Yes, definitely no access to items that they know little about (Chinese etc..). If the PAF wants to keep its combat edge, then why don't they goto Red Flag as usual. Why are the Americans coming into our territory. They don't need to and it does us no extra benefit, only detriments to our national security. We are better off sending our pilots for Red Flag.

It's one thing to plan a mission for a country you've never even flown over vs one which you are intimately familiar with. Those American fighter pilots who have trained to strike our nuclear facilities will have a great refresher of our terrain, climate and operating environment. They will come out of this exercise even more prepared to strike our nukes.

I say keep those snakes over the Arabian Sea and out of our territory. Do not mistake this "air exercise" gesture for a hand of friendship, lest your hand gets bitten by the snake once more. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

 

[帅的一匹]

F-18 is definitely better than JF-17

PAF happily boight old mlu F-16s.How they can reject new blk70?


F-16 blk70 is comparable to your J-16D.


JFT blk 1&2 do not have such potential.
When blk 3 will come out ....there will be probably of a chance to deploy it.

Bro, F16 blk70 and J16 are different concept.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

So depends on how much you ate willing to whore your country out? Each option above is sad and pathetic. And as far as taliban go, US doesnt want Pakistan to abandon Taliban. Its they only country that can control any of Taliban's actions

for now, what u have written is what they r doing now that these primary objectives as mentioned by him cant be achieved! This as well as Blackwater etc are plan B! or a compromise.

 

[SQ8]

Aaloo ka parata ideas all over

 

[ARMalik]

Let's not pretend that everything is okay between Pakistan and the US. It boggles my mind how people have such short memories. We have been through hell for the past 17+ years. Our security has suffered. Our economy has suffered. These same Americans threatened to balkanize and destroy Pakistan's existence every other day. Our soldiers got killed in broad daylight. They want us to believe it was a mistake. I can go on and on. 17 years of treachery, backstabbing and bloodshed.

Some of us just want to pretend it never happened or just to forget it all. The exercise sends a wrong and confused message. Exercises happen between friendly nations that are on equal terms. The US and Pakistan are not on equal terms.

The USAF isn't coming to Pakistan to hold an exercise because they love us. They are here for their own interests. Ever since Pakistan and China have joined hands the Americans are up in flames. Read and watch their media. They don't hide their ill feelings towards China Pakistan cooperation. CPEC/Gwadar is an absolute thorn in the American eyes. Not a day goes by and all we hear and read on US media is CPEC/Gwadar. Do I need to continue?

On what basis are we going to hold an exercise when there is such huge mistrust? This is exactly what the whole world keeps questioning. What kind of allies are Pakistan and the US? The mistrust is no secret to anyone yet there is such a discrepancy when it comes to this weird relationship.

Its almost as if there are Pro-US military leaders sitting in AF, Navy and Army who just refuse to believe that US is an enemy, and they keep making the same mistake over and over again thinking the outcome would be somehow different this time around.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

:

Air to air refueling
Dissimilar aircraft combat including F22 and its hovering and thrust vectoring capability.
Operating under extensive jamming
Exposure to "Enemy" combat tactics.
etc.

My2C worth

f16 and 18s are coming only!

 

[punit]

Is F16 still worth of you doing these?

Watch out !! 1st love is the deepest one !! @MastanKhan

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Ithink one needs to be pragmatic. Allow me to give you an example. The Saudis have funded our Government for decades and we havs no reason to deny that their help at critical junctures has been pivotal in getting Paklands out of the pile of doo doo it had dug itself into. Yet when they asked us for contributions towards the Yemen war (at least on the surface) we refused. Does that make us untrustworthy. We went back to the Saudis and they helped us out again.
The lesson that needs to be learned by Paklands and its people is that ANY country helps you because its interests are alligned with yours. So why do we blame the US for our own stupid perceptions.
Now as to this notion that the US want to take a peek into your defence systems. COME ON. Yara in a country where every file gets sold for a couple of thousnd rupees, where most of your communication systems have US components do you think there is anything that you have which is hidden from them. How much interest would the JFT generate for the US playing around with the 22s and 35s.
So that is not the reason for them coming. If you analyze the situation closely you will realize that difference of techniques are the only thing that can surprise them. This is something you might be able to do once or twice but not always. They also are exposing their methodology for attacking and defending and you leearn from it and evolve. So it could be a 2 way street and the benefits favour PAF more than the US.
THE US is only coming to repair some of the damage that Donald Trump has wreaked. The military to military relations have always been good and their is an understanding of each other's positions. Pakistan has now got a different set of priorities but the US wants to keep Pak lands in the loop by maintaining good relations which is our need as well. So understand the situation on the ground and put your best foot forward. You can only learn from experiences.
A

analyse these things by not the limited lense of military, but in the entire spectrum of global relations!
Yr analysis looks very limited and hallow!
Thank You!

 

[punit]

When it served national interests of US, They gave the top of the line fighter plane to us at the time when it was being inducted in their airforce! And looked the other way on our nuclear ambitions. So AESA equipped F16 depends upon converging interests and how far we can go to deliver upon US interests in the region. Options for converging interests:

1. Be a hostile nation to Iran... High dividend game both from US, KSA & UAE perspective. High blow back at home. however, India nexus with Iran can be played cleverly with home crowd.
2. Let go of Kashmir and cozy up to India .... Lower dividends now. Mixed response at home. Need to package the deal in such a way that the bitter pill can be swallowed.
3. Let go of CPEC/China... High dividends. Ramp down CPEC, bargain for max from USA/KSA/UAE. No blow-back at home
4. Let go of our influence on Afgh Taliban...Now Med gain. Depends upon point 2.
5. Cozy up to Israel...Med dividend but high from Israel itself. High blow-back from religious groups
6. Be a full partner to the Arab adventures in support of KSA/UAE. Higher dividends. Need to package this for home consumption.

It all boils down to our national priorities. What can we do from the above lists so that we gain the max without letting go of our leverage.

All these for a bunch of F16 ? Is the F 16 lobby that strong ?