Pakistan - Turkey (PAC-TAI) Collaboration for NGFA-TFX 5th Gen Aircraft l Updates, News & Discussion

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

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IIRC...the KAAN's fairly close in size to the F-22? @JamD

 

[Hold the door]

IIRC...the KAAN's fairly close in size to the F-22? @JamD

 

[MastanKhan]

IIRC...the KAAN's fairly close in size to the F-22? @JamD

Hi,

Kaan is bigger than the F-22.

It has longer intake runners than the F-22 to reach optimal air intake---.

Which means that the F-22 with shorter intake runners has far superior design technology to get the desired effect on the incoming air into the engine---.

 

[merzifonlu]

Which means that the F-22 with shorter intake runners has far superior design technology to get the desired effect on the incoming air into the engine---.

No, it doesn't mean that. It means there are priority differences between the two designs.

While the F-22 gave up carrying long and bulky ammunition to gain agility, Kaan gave up agility in order to carry long and bulky ammunition.

 

[MastanKhan]

No, it doesn't mean that. It means there are priority differences between the two designs.

While the F-22 gave up carrying long and bulky ammunition to gain agility, Kaan gave up agility in order to carry long and bulky ammunition.

Hi,

Youngman---please respectfully don't contradict me on things you don't know about---.

Getting better agility requires a far far superior technology than carrying bulky ammo long range---.

FYI KAAN is still a 4.5+++gen aircraft

Unless you don't know for a fact---it is a moot point arguing with me---.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Hi,

Youngman---please respectfully don't contradict me on things you don't know about---.

Getting better agility requires a far far superior technology than carrying bulky ammo long range---.

FYI KAAN is still a 4.5+++gen aircraft

Unless you don't know for a fact---it is a moot point arguing with me---.

Poorer (in comparison, not poor) engine tech mean longer fighters ... one can see that in Chinese jets as well.
As they mature, engine sizes will come down along with fighter lengths.

 

[JamD]

IIRC...the KAAN's fairly close in size to the F-22? @JamD

I'll have to double check the dimensions (I can easily) but I am reasonably sure that Kaan's current undercarriage is definitely taller than the F-22's. I don't know why that is. There's a whole series of guesses of logic that I have but I don't feel comfortable sharing them because they are just guesses and people might take them too seriously. I would just keep in mind that this is the first prototype and this is what Kaan looked on design boards maybe 3 4 years ago, not what it looks like right now, if you know what I mean.

 

[merzifonlu]

Youngman---please respectfully don't contradict me on things you don't know about---.

I am not "youngman". On the contrary, I'm too old (50 years old) to argue with people who think their prejudices are knowledge.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD

What the prospect of Pakistan getting Kaan?

I mean United States did not allow Turkey to sell gunship helicopters to Pakistan (with american engines). Why on earth, Americans will even consider the very idea of Pakistan getting a 5th gen stealth fighter with US made engines. That looks pretty impossible to me.

Unless, Pakistani variant uses AL-41F or WS-10 kind of engines instead of GE-F110 .

 

[xbat]

KAAN internal bays modified to carry mk83 size bombs, f22 cant carry them. side bays are also long , probably accommodate GOKHAN ramjet missiles which is larger than aim 9 and aim 120 s.
i dont consider KAAN as a 4++ gen jet, it has old fashioned engine for just today rest is pure 5th generation.

 

[arslank03]

Hi,

Youngman---please respectfully don't contradict me on things you don't know about---.

Getting better agility requires a far far superior technology than carrying bulky ammo long range---.

FYI KAAN is still a 4.5+++gen aircraft

Unless you don't know for a fact---it is a moot point arguing with me---.

F-7PG is a 3.9+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ gen fighter.

ps, you're spewing nonsense as usual.

 

[TheSolution]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD

What the prospect of Pakistan getting Kaan?

I mean United States did not allow Turkey to sell gunship helicopters to Pakistan (with american engines). Why on earth, Americans will even consider the very idea of Pakistan getting a 5th gen stealth fighter with US made engines. That looks pretty impossible to me.

Unless, Pakistani variant uses AL-41F or WS-10 kind of engines instead of GE-F110 .

They are hoping Turkish engines come online

 

[Hold the door]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD

What the prospect of Pakistan getting Kaan?

I mean United States did not allow Turkey to sell gunship helicopters to Pakistan (with american engines). Why on earth, Americans will even consider the very idea of Pakistan getting a 5th gen stealth fighter with US made engines. That looks pretty impossible to me.

Unless, Pakistani variant uses AL-41F or WS-10 kind of engines instead of GE-F110 .

You have to wait for the indigenous engine.

 

[MMM-E]

i dont consider KAAN as a 4++ gen jet, it has old fashioned engine for just today rest is pure 5th generation.

with new Engine even 5+


1-- New turbofan Engine from TR-MOTOR for 5th gen capability
2-- with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness ( 360° situational awareness with 4 AESA radars - sensor fusion with EOTS , IRST with unique configuration )
3-- high-capacity networking , AI, data fusion
4-- Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
5-- Pilot Health Tracking
6-- DIRCM Directed Infrared Countermeasure System by high power LASER
7-- HMDS (Helmet Display System) with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness
8 --Increased-range BVR Missile (GOKHAN ramjet powered long range networked a2a missile )
9-- excellent EW capabilities with ASELSAN FEWS -- Fighter Electronic Warfare Suite

10 -- full data-to-decision (D2D) capability for multi-layered distributed team of diverse manned aircraft working in concert with unmanned types ( KAAN , ANKA-3, KIZILELMA )



F-35 lacks Supercruise ..... ( Supersonic flight without afterburner )
F-35 lacks Directional Infrared Counter Measures .. ( Aselsan YILDIRIM DIRCM)
F-35 lacks 360° AESA Radar coverage


And KAAN is a different aircraft from the F-22

-- Sensor fusion with EOTS , IRST with unique configuration
-- 360-degree vision with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness.
-- BEOS/EOTS (Advanced optical Systems)
-- HMDS (Helmet Display System) .. only F-35 and KAAN
-- Locking on to enemy aircraft from all directions
-- IRST Infrared Sensor
-- Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
-- Pilot Health Tracking
-- DIRCM Laser countermeasure
-- 360° AESA Radar
-- 4 AESA radars will cover the hole KAAN
( 2 on the wings, propulsion between the engines, and the nose)


F-22 lacks EOTS , IRST , GaN AESA Radar , HMDS (Helmet Display System) , DIRCM Laser countermeasure , Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot , 360° AESA Radar coverage and Pilot Health Tracking

 

[JamD]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD

What the prospect of Pakistan getting Kaan?

I mean United States did not allow Turkey to sell gunship helicopters to Pakistan (with american engines). Why on earth, Americans will even consider the very idea of Pakistan getting a 5th gen stealth fighter with US made engines. That looks pretty impossible to me.

Unless, Pakistani variant uses AL-41F or WS-10 kind of engines instead of GE-F110 .

PAF is quite serious. Keep in mind PAF wants to buy block 30 onwards - not block 10 or 20. The primary hope is that the Turkish engine comes online by then. Otherwise, Russian/Chinese engines MAY be considered but they will be a hard sell for the Turks because they'll have to deal with an additional vendor and incorporate an additional engine which is a whole other can of worms. Don't expect PAF to think about Kaan before 2030.