Pakistan - Turkey (PAC-TAI) Collaboration for NGFA-TFX 5th Gen Aircraft l Updates, News & Discussion

[Indos]

When I came across those core values, I saw an actual evolution of social values, unlike in Pakistan where the imported values are just pushed down our throat. It shows Indonesia as a society is innovating, not just promoting buzzwords.
Really happy for you guys. Wish you all the success.

Well, thank you, Amin.

Actually this is hard effort and long journey. I believe only with help of Allah we can basically be successful to make a meaningful reform to our nation.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

It is no secret that PAF is interested in the MMU and that TA is pushing very hard to make that deal too. TA is trying to sweeten the deal by offering workshare for various things. However, Pakistan suffers from
1. Painfully slow bureaucracy - the PAF regularly annoys the crap out of TA
2. Overpromising and underdelivering
3. No monies lol
So let's see if TA's desire to bring MMU to the PAF is strong enough to overcome the factors above.

Why is money an issue? These kinds of deals are never paid right upfront. I believe that the problem at hand is rather technical and to a certain degree political. What engine is Pakistan going to select for its version of the TFX? Once this matter has been solved, there's little that can stop PAF from acquiring these planes.

However, I don't believe that Pakistan is goint to purchase these aircrafts in the near future. Too many uncertanties. On the plus side, this gives TAF and TAI time to handle the teething problems that are bound to appear. At the end, the PAF version could be much more advanced and technologically mature.

 

[JamD]

Why is money an issue? These kinds of deals are never paid right upfront. I believe that the problem at hand is rather technical and to a certain degree political. What engine is Pakistan going to select for its version of the TFX? Once this matter has been solved, there's little that can stop PAF from acquiring these planes.

However, I don't believe that Pakistan is goint to purchase these aircrafts in the near future. Too many uncertanties. On the plus side, this gives TAF and TAI time to handle the teething problems that are bound to appear. At the end, the PAF version could be much more advanced and technologically mature.

Money is an issue because the 10-15 year outlook for Pakistan's economy is pretty bleak. It's not that we don't have money right now, it's that we won't have money for a long time.

Pakistan obviously hasn't decided on the engine but re-engining the TFX is definitely PAF's requirement - Turkish or Chinese would work. It would be smoother if the Turkish engine can come online in time. Pakistan wants these planes 2028-2030 I think.

Very likely the TurAF will be the sole operator of the first two blocks. IF PAF acquires the TFX, it will be the block 30 since that is the "fully developed" TFX. Even the JF-17's first block wasn't exported.

 

[sparten]

Money is an issue because the 10-15 year outlook for Pakistan's economy is pretty bleak.

If someone has actually said that, then he or she is BSing. No one has any clear idea of what a 15 year outlook is and if they claim, they are lying.

We have issues into next FY(FY25). After that the situation actually becomes quite stable as most of the major liabilities are retired and there are no new ones currently contemplated.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Money is an issue because the 10-15 year outlook for Pakistan's economy is pretty bleak. It's not that we don't have money right now, it's that we won't have money for a long time.

Pakistan obviously hasn't decided on the engine but re-engining the TFX is definitely PAF's requirement - Turkish or Chinese would work. It would be smoother if the Turkish engine can come online in time. Pakistan wants these planes 2028-2030 I think.

Very likely the TurAF will be the sole operator of the first two blocks. IF PAF acquires the TFX, it will be the block 30 since that is the "fully developed" TFX. Even the JF-17's first block wasn't exported.

There are many examples of states with significant budget constraints all around the world. Most of these countries are still able to purchase major weapon systems regardless of the price tag.

Knowing this I wonder if Pakistan has ever cancelled an major acquisition in the past due to its financial situation.

 

[Edevelop]

Money is an issue because the 10-15 year outlook for Pakistan's economy is pretty bleak. It's not that we don't have money right now, it's that we won't have money for a long time.

Pakistan obviously hasn't decided on the engine but re-engining the TFX is definitely PAF's requirement - Turkish or Chinese would work. It would be smoother if the Turkish engine can come online in time. Pakistan wants these planes 2028-2030 I think.

Very likely the TurAF will be the sole operator of the first two blocks. IF PAF acquires the TFX, it will be the block 30 since that is the "fully developed" TFX. Even the JF-17's first block wasn't exported.

I don't see any significant issues in the coming years. If China, Russia, Brazil, India, Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc are starting to ditch the US Dollar, you can expect Turkey and Pakistan whose currencies have lost most value to do the same.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

It's no secret at all that Pakistanis have been involved to some degree. They usually work within the framework of Turkish institutions and companies as employees.

I'm not sure if this means that Pakistan as a country on a government-to-government level is involved, too.

Of course, these Turkish companies couldn't operate their businesses in Pakistan without official permission from the Pakistani state but spill-over effects are a possibility and Pakistan is interested.

 

[JamD]

If someone has actually said that, then he or she is BSing. No one has any clear idea of what a 15 year outlook is and if they claim, they are lying.

We have issues into next FY(FY25). After that the situation actually becomes quite stable as most of the major liabilities are retired and there are no new ones currently contemplated.

There are many examples of states with significant budget constraints all around the world. Most of these countries are still able to purchase major weapon systems regardless of the price tag.

Knowing this I wonder if Pakistan has ever cancelled an major acquisition in the past due to its financial situation.

I don't see any significant issues in the coming years. If China, Russia, Brazil, India, Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc are starting to ditch the US Dollar, you can expect Turkey and Pakistan whose currencies have lost most value to do the same.

I have no intention of turning this thread into an economics thread. I will just say that people that matter realize what I have said. And that's what matters, not how you and I think economics should work.

 

[sparten]

I have no intention of turning this thread into an economics thread. I will just say that people that matter realize what I have said. And that's what matters, not how you and I think economics should work.

An appeal to authority is never a good argument, especially if it comes from an otherwise very knowledgeable poster.

 

[JamD]

An appeal to authority is never a good argument, especially if it comes from an otherwise very knowledgeable poster.

very obviously my intention was to NOT make an argument since I don't want to debate economics. Have a good day.

 

[sparten]

very obviously my intention was to NOT make an argument since I don't want to debate economics. Have a good day.

You made a claim based on economics.
When confronted you first appealed to some “people who matter” and when confronted further you turned around and claimed that you weren’t having an economic discussion.

 

[Corax]

If someone has actually said that, then he or she is BSing. No one has any clear idea of what a 15 year outlook is and if they claim, they are lying.

We have issues into next FY(FY25). After that the situation actually becomes quite stable as most of the major liabilities are retired and there are no new ones currently contemplated.

You don't have to be a genius. Pakistan's economic performance hasn't really changed throughout its existence, so the next 10-15 years won't be much different. The times when it has performed relatively well were brief and transitory, and not sustainable. Corruption and mismanagement are the main factors holding it back.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[KediKesenFare3]

It could have been a Pakistani-Turkish fighter jet...