Pakistan - Turkey (PAC-TAI) Collaboration for NGFA-TFX 5th Gen Aircraft l Updates, News & Discussion

[Goritoes]

If Turkey manage to build every essential part of the fighter jet in-home then PAF will most likely order it and join the program in way that few selected parts could be made in PAC Kamra.

 

[Zarvan]

@Quwa @dBSPL @Signalian @PanzerKiel @JamD and others

May I ask you a question? Why is Pakistan not involved more in TFX project(s)?

People mistakenly think that TFX is just one big project but it has hundreds and hundreds of subcategories with totally differing programs spread over the entire defense tech spectrum.

Really, Idon't understand why Pakistan declined the Turkish invitation in the first place? Be honest, please. It can't be a resource related issue. The program itself is stretched over decades. It is possible for Pakistan to participate in it with careful planning. Yes, Turkey is ahead of Pakistan technologically but it's not like Pakistanis are empty-handed. They, too, have fields of expertise which could have helped accelerate the process.

A plane is more than its mere physical appearance. I believe that Pakistanis could have helped us out with everything related to software development.

There are other opportunities as well.

Outsourcing production parts to Pakistan with a highly skilled labour force, cutting costs, making the jet more competitive, bringing jobs to the Pakistani aviation industry while assisting Turkey, creating and supporting an eco systems that would benefit Pakistan for decades to come.

If I as a guy on the internet with zero knowledge and a layman can figure this out, why didn't the authorities in Pakistan approve to take part in this endeavour?

I'm not talking about Pakistan receiving the actual jet which is difficult due to the engine issue. I know that but there are other important aspects as well.

I'm asking why Islamabad refused to get involved in an industrial context which back then was an absolutely realistic approach.

Is it possible that the Pak military didn't believe in Turkey's capacity to go through with this project? What was the reason for Pakistan's reluctancy?

We are official partners in TFX project. Our Azm project is the TFX project. Watch this whole program. TAI official itself announcing it along with Pakistanis.

The simple answer is that Pakistan is interested/involved in the TFX project and not just in a customer context (albeit they should've joined sooner). That's all I will say. Not because it's some super secret but because it is not set in stone and these things are fluid.

Watch the above program. It's out in the open bhai. TAI guy himself set on a Pakistani television and broke this news.

We are. Bit late though. Possibly, we can observe the South Korean Indonesia KFX type relation in case of TFX (Turkey Pakistan).

Infact, for Pakistan, Turkey is enroute to become largest joint producer of military hardware.

This program tells us the answer I wonder why people don't remember this.

 

[JamD]

Watch the above program. It's out in the open bhai. TAI guy himself set on a Pakistani television and broke this news.

Yes, we've all seen this program. As has been discussed to death on the forum and confirmed by Turkish insiders, Temel Kotil was being a salesman when he said those things. I will make it crystal clear for you. Azm is OFFICIALLY dead. It has not turned into TFX. Dead. With that being said, there is some Pakistani interest in TFX (obviously) and there is technical involvement (albeit one way only right now), which is likely to expand. But this is far from TFX being a joint program. Think along the lines of maybe a custom version for Pakistan. Maybe 5-10% technical input. This is understandable given how late we are half-hardheartedly getting on the program. Even now the PAF has NOT fully committed. It is still keeping its options open.

If anything it is TAI that is pushing the TFX to PAF and the PAF is going along for the ride.

 

[Crystal-Clear]

Most probably Trust issues.

 

[James David]

@Quwa @dBSPL @Signalian @PanzerKiel @JamD and others

May I ask you a question? Why is Pakistan not involved more in TFX project(s)?

People mistakenly think that TFX is just one big project but it has hundreds and hundreds of subcategories with totally differing programs spread over the entire defense tech spectrum.

Really, Idon't understand why Pakistan declined the Turkish invitation in the first place? Be honest, please. It can't be a resource related issue. The program itself is stretched over decades. It is possible for Pakistan to participate in it with careful planning. Yes, Turkey is ahead of Pakistan technologically but it's not like Pakistanis are empty-handed. They, too, have fields of expertise which could have helped accelerate the process.

A plane is more than its mere physical appearance. I believe that Pakistanis could have helped us out with everything related to software development.

There are other opportunities as well.

Outsourcing production parts to Pakistan with a highly skilled labour force, cutting costs, making the jet more competitive, bringing jobs to the Pakistani aviation industry while assisting Turkey, creating and supporting an eco systems that would benefit Pakistan for decades to come.

If I as a guy on the internet with zero knowledge and a layman can figure this out, why didn't the authorities in Pakistan approve to take part in this endeavour?

I'm not talking about Pakistan receiving the actual jet which is difficult due to the engine issue. I know that but there are other important aspects as well.

I'm asking why Islamabad refused to get involved in an industrial context which back then was an absolutely realistic approach.

Is it possible that the Pak military didn't believe in Turkey's capacity to go through with this project? What was the reason for Pakistan's reluctancy?

You don't have the money... so...

 

[Tipu7]

Apparently PAF is going to project the (P)TFX as joint Pak-Turk project in the disguise of Project Azm. Something same which we did in case of Jf-17.

Yes, we've all seen this program. As has been discussed to death on the forum and confirmed by Turkish insiders, Temel Kotil was being a salesman when he said those things. I will make it crystal clear for you. Azm is OFFICIALLY dead. It has not turned into TFX. Dead. With that being said, there is some Pakistani interest in TFX (obviously) and there is technical involvement (albeit one way only right now), which is likely to expand. But this is far from TFX being a joint program. Think along the lines of maybe a custom version for Pakistan. Maybe 5-10% technical input. This is understandable given how late we are half-hardheartedly getting on the program. Even now the PAF has NOT fully committed. It is still keeping its options open.

If anything it is TAI that is pushing the TFX to PAF and the PAF is going along for the ride.

 

[JamD]

Apparently PAF is going to project the (P)TFX as joint Pak-Turk project in the disguise of Project Azm. Something same which we did in case of Jf-17.

Maybe and things point towards that. But I know of no such formal commitment from our side.

 

[Bilal.]

Yes, we've all seen this program. As has been discussed to death on the forum and confirmed by Turkish insiders, Temel Kotil was being a salesman when he said those things. I will make it crystal clear for you. Azm is OFFICIALLY dead. It has not turned into TFX. Dead. With that being said, there is some Pakistani interest in TFX (obviously) and there is technical involvement (albeit one way only right now), which is likely to expand. But this is far from TFX being a joint program. Think along the lines of maybe a custom version for Pakistan. Maybe 5-10% technical input. This is understandable given how late we are half-hardheartedly getting on the program. Even now the PAF has NOT fully committed. It is still keeping its options open.

If anything it is TAI that is pushing the TFX to PAF and the PAF is going along for the ride.

Will anything come out of other projects under AZM (UAV, Missiles/PGMs) or everything is dead?

 

[JamD]

Will anything come out of other projects under AZM (UAV, Missiles/PGMs) or everything is dead?

Depends on what PAF intends to do. All (most) of the programs are basically dead due to various reasons. So on the current course, nothing will come out of them.

 

[Zarvan]

Yes, we've all seen this program. As has been discussed to death on the forum and confirmed by Turkish insiders, Temel Kotil was being a salesman when he said those things. I will make it crystal clear for you. Azm is OFFICIALLY dead. It has not turned into TFX. Dead. With that being said, there is some Pakistani interest in TFX (obviously) and there is technical involvement (albeit one way only right now), which is likely to expand. But this is far from TFX being a joint program. Think along the lines of maybe a custom version for Pakistan. Maybe 5-10% technical input. This is understandable given how late we are half-hardheartedly getting on the program. Even now the PAF has NOT fully committed. It is still keeping its options open.

If anything it is TAI that is pushing the TFX to PAF and the PAF is going along for the ride.

Our local AZM is dead and no we haven't shown interest in TFX. We have officially joined that project. I repeat we have joint the project.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Our local AZM is dead and no we haven't shown interest in TFX. We have officially joined that project. I repeat we have joint the project. Not shown interest. You don't sign whole agreement if you are keep your options open.

When did you see the contract?

 

[Zarvan]

When did you see the contract?

I won't comment on that Sir.

 

[JamD]

Our local AZM is dead and no we haven't shown interest in TFX. We have officially joined that project. I repeat we have joint the project.

Sir you can repeat as much as you want. I have seen no solid commitment on PAF's part. Current status is observe TFX. Like I said that it is likely that eventually PAF will join, but as of now, at least I don't know of any joining of project. I hope your source isn't that TV interview and something else.

 

[Kedikesenfare2]

Sir you can repeat as much as you want. I have seen no solid commitment on PAF's part. Current status is observe TFX. Like I said that it is likely that eventually PAF will join, but as of now, at least I don't know of any joining of project. I hope your source isn't that TV interview and something else.

I've searched a little bit in the Turkish speaking part of the internet about this issue. There are people who are convinced that the number of nations willing to participate in the TFX project will dramatically increase once the prototype is revealed to the public? Do you share this opinion?

 

[JamD]

I've searched a little bit in the Turkish speaking part of the internet about this issue. There are people who are convinced that the number of nations willing to participate in the TFX project will dramatically increase once the prototype is revealed to the public? Do you share this opinion?

Dramatically no. Will increase yes. Pakistan is definitely one of the top contenders. TAI really wants PAF to choose the TFX.