Pakistan - Turkey (PAC-TAI) Collaboration for NGFA-TFX 5th Gen Aircraft l Updates, News & Discussion

[Princeps Senatus]

@Zarvan so this is the western aircraft which was being talked about in j10c thread. Suspense turning into a Lil disappointment because of the expected timelines.

eurofighter

 

[Dalit]

Turkey has accumulated a lot of knowledge during their F-35 collaboration. I don't doubt Turkish ability to produce a homegrown 5th gen aircraft for a minute. As many have already pointed out, engine is the biggest challenge. I think China or Russia will provide an engine for this fighter.

 

[dBSPL]

PAF can use the Chinese made engines since it has given clearance for them for its prime fighter J-10s....

Ignoring the differences regarding the interfaces of the engines: Which engine for example? It would be a huuuge surprise if China proposes a new generation engine for this project. Instead, they can offer their own jets to Pakistan.

 

[dBSPL]

Turkey has accumulated a lot of knowledge during their F-35 collaboration. I don't doubt Turkish ability to produce a homegrown 5th gen aircraft for a minute. As many have already pointed out, engine is the biggest challenge. I think China or Russia will provide an engine for this fighter.

Mass producing is not a problem. Turkiye is one of the three centers that produce fuselage for the JSF project. This infrastructure already exists on a certain scale in Turkiye and since 2011, many other huge investments have been made many areas such additive manufacturing and composites. The problem starts when you want to start your own design-testing activities, according to your own needs. When you aim for this purpose, it is necessary to produce and integrate many other home-built sub-elements in parallel with the strategic value of the system you want to produce. If you follow the developments closely with MMU, you will see that the main investments are related to the design and testing processes.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Turkey has accumulated a lot of knowledge during their F-35 collaboration. I don't doubt Turkish ability to produce a homegrown 5th gen aircraft for a minute. As many have already pointed out, engine is the biggest challenge. I think China or Russia will provide an engine for this fighter.

An initial batch of GE engines, used in F16s with the final manufacturing facilities in Turkey under license, have been procured for the initial blocks till the indigenous engines are available.....

I am pretty sure PAF won't try their luck with the US engines any more. So, they might go for other solutions.....

 

[kursed]

It sort of feels like Project Azm has been made too big to fail with all of the money poured into, at least, the infrastructure. Sure the local FGFA design may not be pursued but I believe everything else will be pursued and there is a strong desire to develop an honest-to-God aerospace industry instead of a singular factory that makes a jet and a trainer. The too big to fail means that it will survive no matter how much we logically think it should end. This would be excellent because this is exactly the kind of commitment that you need for giving birth to an industry. @kursed @PanzerKiel

However, I've been wrong before and this could end up being a giant waste of money to make buildings. I certainly hope not.

You know my views on this already. #foreverskeptic

 

[NA71]

Would that work? Turkey and China collaborate for PAF of their engine requirement? Also how Turkey is going to induct those within their own air force since they are not looking into a western engine for TFX.
If it is announced now, it would be extremely detailed, long and back to back several discussions between the two including engine and other aspects.
We may have to wait for details.

yes ....Turkey and Pakistan will collaborate with China for mutual benefits ...Turkey would learn from Pakistan's Assets (J-10C) ...how about initial proto types of Chinese engines and later may switch to others...like in J-10 development cycle.

 

[JamD]

You know my views on this already. #foreverskeptic

It is because of your views that I tagged you lol. Look at it this way. Throw enough crap at a wall and eventually some will start to stick If they keep this up for long enough I honestly believe they'll build momentum to do something useful - not necessarily all that we dream of - but economically viable things that benefit our bank account and defence.

 

[kursed]

It is because of your views that I tagged you lol. Look at it this way. Throw enough crap at a wall and eventually some will start to stick If they keep this up for long enough I honestly believe they'll build momentum to do something useful - not necessarily all that we dream of - but economically viable things that benefit our bank account and defence.

If I see PAF starting centers of excellence within unis, or funding talent and research in-house. This would look plausible. You already know how current effort is going, don’t need to even go details of that.

I see more chances of a home grown next gen air borne weapons program coming out of this, than a jet. Unless ofc, TAI does all the heavy lifting on this.

 

[Amaa'n]

 

[JamD]

If I see PAF starting centers of excellence within unis, or funding talent and research in-house. This would look plausible. You already know how current effort is going, don’t need to even go details of that.

I see more chances of a home grown next gen air borne weapons program coming out of this, than a jet. Unless ofc, TAI does all the heavy lifting on this.

Oh yes, in total agreement on that. I don't think I ever believed that the YF-23 was going to be a real thing. I hope that a lot of things come out of this. The aim should be small subsystems instead of grand projects. But that's just my opinion.

If I see PAF starting centers of excellence within unis, or funding talent and research in-house. This would look plausible. You already know how current effort is going, don’t need to even go details of that.

I see more chances of a home grown next gen air borne weapons program coming out of this, than a jet. Unless ofc, TAI does all the heavy lifting on this.

So when one of the ACMs (I forget which one, I think Sohail Aman) said SIXTH generation with lasers, he may actually have been being more realistic....that it'd take us a generation to even attempt a fighter jet for real...after 30 years of working hard.. being a hopeless optimist for a change

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Is it certain that TFX and AZM will use the same platform? At the 22nd minute of the video, he says we will support their project with our experience in the Azm project, that's why I asked.

 

[Bilal.]

Is it certain that TFX and AZM will use the same platform? At the 22nd minute of the video, he says we will support their project with our experience in the Azm project, that's why I asked.

I raised the same question in the previous thread before it was locked. But the members who are more aware have basically confirmed that the AZM platform has been canned in favor of TFX.

 

[NA71]

this could be also a possibility that in 2017 we decided to join TFX and were engaged in preliminary infrastructure development proposed by Turks....the deliberate photo leaks (Jet designs) were just distractions

 

[farooqbhai007]

It sort of feels like Project Azm has been made too big to fail with all of the money poured into, at least, the infrastructure. Sure the local FGFA design may not be pursued but I believe everything else will be pursued and there is a strong desire to develop an honest-to-God aerospace industry instead of a singular factory that makes a jet and a trainer. The too big to fail means that it will survive no matter how much we logically think it should end. This would be excellent because this is exactly the kind of commitment that you need for giving birth to an industry. @kursed @PanzerKiel

However, I've been wrong before and this could end up being a giant waste of money to make buildings. I certainly hope not.

Buildings location tells us something else , I would say , even if PAC doesn't use them others would.