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Pakistan, Turkey friendship rooted in history: Ayaz

Rasullullah
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giving an example of Muslim unity is reported to have said in a Hadith:

“The Muslim Ummah is like one body. If the eye is in pain then the whole body is in pain and if the head is in pain then the whole body is in pain”

Currently we (Muslims) are far away from the teaching for Islam, but however Muslim feels the pain of his brother.

Good, so One muslim would not hurt another Muslim, leave aside Killing. Good I like it.
 
Speaker National Assembly Sardar Ayaz Sadiq on Thursday said that friendship between Pakistan and Turkey is time tested and have roots in history.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-turkey-friendship-rooted-in-history-ayaz.446122/#ixzz4IQyM9cwx

Which history?
Mughals and Ottomans both were from central Asia. Mughal's grandfather Tamir put ottomans in power. Plus Turkey remember, muslim of Pakistan region help them during their war of independece
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timurid_Empire
 
Politics makes strange bed fellows.

Hence my post #11

Mughals and Ottomans both were from central Asia. Mughal's grandfather Tamir put ottomans in power. Plus Turkey remember, muslim of Pakistan region help them during their war of independece
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timurid_Empire

Interesting. But then one can argue a similar history to origin of humankind, don't you think?

Was Pakistan there during the period of the said war 1919-22? Interesting to note your contention here!
 
I am just trying to reconcile the role of Muslim League in Khilafat Movement and the subsequent position of Pakistan in Turko-Pak relationship.

@hellfire


The biographers of Mr. Jinnah, including Stanley Wolpert, author of Jinnah of Pakistan (Jinnah of Pakistan, by Stanley Wolpert, Page 132), and Hector Bolitho, the author of Jinnah the Creator of Pakistan (Jinnah the creator of Pakistan Page 96), refer in some detail to the father of Pakistan’s fascination with the Grey Wolf (i.e Ataturk); An intimate study of a dictator a book by H C Armstrong. After reading about the then newly published book in the Times Literary Supplement, Jinnah had picked up the book in Hampstead on one of his walks.

Apparently he found in the Turk leader, his contemporary, a kindred spirit. He then gave the copy to his daughter Dina saying “read this it is good”. Apparently the impression that Ataturk left on the suave barrister was so profound that doting Dina started calling him “Greywolf”.






Throughout Jinnah’s pronouncements in the 1930s as the leader of the Muslim League, we find references to Kemalist Turkey as the example for the Muslims of India to follow. Speaking to a gathering Jinnah expressed the wish to be like Mustafa Kemal but that unlike the leader of the Turks he had no army and that his only weapons were logic and reason.(Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the Nation’s voice, towards consolidation, Speeches and Statements 1935-1940, Page 188) Upon the latter’s death Jinnah eulogised him as the greatest man of the age by following whose example there was no reason the Muslims of India should remain in a quagmire. Jinnah told Civil and Military Gazette on 11 November 1938:



“He was the greatest Muslaman in the modern Islamic World and I am sure that the entire Musalman world will deeply mourn his passing away. It is impossible to express adequately in a press interview one’s appreciation of his remarkable and varied services, as the builder and the maker of Modern Turkey and an example to the rest of the world, especially to the Musalman States in the Far East. The remarkable way in which he rescued and built up his people against all odds, has no parallel in the history of the world. He must have derived the greatest sense of satisfaction that he fully accomplished his mission during his life-time and left his people and his country consolidated, united and a powerful nation. In him, not only the Musalmans but the whole world have lost one of the greatest men that ever lived“. (Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the Nation’s voice, towards consolidation, Speeches and Statements 1935-1940, Page 306)



He also instructed the Muslim League to celebrate Kemal Day:

“I request provincial, District and Primary Muslim Leagues all over India to observe Friday the 16th of November as Kemal Day and hold public meetings to express deepest feeling of sorrow and sympathy of Musalmans of India in the irreparable loss that the Turkish Nation has suffered in the passing away of one of the greatest sons of Islam and a world figure and the saviour and maker of Modern Turkey Kemal Ataturk”. (Ibid Page 307)



The Muslim League adopted the following resolution: “Resolved that this Annual Session of the All India Muslim League expresses its deepest feelings of sorrow and grief at the sad demise of Ataturk Ghazi Mustafa Kemal Pasha whom it acknowledges as a truly great personality in the Islamic world, a great general and a great statesman. He rebuilt and revived the Turkish Nation after its defeat and disintegration and in spite of opposition from the European powers succeeded in defeating the enemies of Turkey and within a short time brought his country in the front rank of nations. By establishing a concord and alliance of the Eastern Nations he guided the East to the true goal of political power and prosperity. His memory will inspire Muslims all over the world with courage, perseverance and manliness. With this expression of its heartfelt grief, the Session of the All India Muslim League wishes to convey its message of sympathy and condolence to the Turkish nation in its great bereavement.” (Ibid Page 581)





And Iqbal was one who appreciated the idea of ijtihad in religious and political thought of the Turkish state the most. He unreservedly agreed with the Turkish view that according to the spirit of Islam, the caliphate or imamate could be vested in a body of persons or an elected assembly.

YLH
 
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@hellfire

The biographers of Mr. Jinnah, including Stanley Wolpert, author of Jinnah of Pakistan (Jinnah of Pakistan, by Stanley Wolpert, Page 132), and Hector Bolitho, the author of Jinnah the Creator of Pakistan (Jinnah the creator of Pakistan Page 96), refer in some detail to the father of Pakistan’s fascination with the Grey Wolf (i.e Ataturk); An intimate study of a dictator a book by H C Armstrong. After reading about the then newly published book in the Times Literary Supplement, Jinnah had picked up the book in Hampstead on one of his walks.

Apparently he found in the Turk leader, his contemporary, a kindred spirit. He then gave the copy to his daughter Dina saying “read this it is good”. Apparently the impression that Ataturk left on the suave barrister was so profound that doting Dina started calling him “Greywolf”.

Throughout Jinnah’s pronouncements in the 1930s as the leader of the Muslim League, we find references to Kemalist Turkey as the example for the Muslims of India to follow. Speaking to a gathering Jinnah expressed the wish to be like Mustafa Kemal but that unlike the leader of the Turks he had no army and that his only weapons were logic and reason.(Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the Nation’s voice, towards consolidation, Speeches and Statements 1935-1940, Page 188) Upon the latter’s death Jinnah eulogised him as the greatest man of the age by following whose example there was no reason the Muslims of India should remain in a quagmire. Jinnah told Civil and Military Gazette on 11 November 1938:

“He was the greatest Muslaman in the modern Islamic World and I am sure that the entire Musalman world will deeply mourn his passing away. It is impossible to express adequately in a press interview one’s appreciation of his remarkable and varied services, as the builder and the maker of Modern Turkey and an example to the rest of the world, especially to the Musalman States in the Far East. The remarkable way in which he rescued and built up his people against all odds, has no parallel in the history of the world. He must have derived the greatest sense of satisfaction that he fully accomplished his mission during his life-time and left his people and his country consolidated, united and a powerful nation. In him, not only the Musalmans but the whole world have lost one of the greatest men that ever lived“. (Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the Nation’s voice, towards consolidation, Speeches and Statements 1935-1940, Page 306)

He also instructed the Muslim League to celebrate Kemal Day:

“I request provincial, District and Primary Muslim Leagues all over India to observe Friday the 16th of November as Kemal Day and hold public meetings to express deepest feeling of sorrow and sympathy of Musalmans of India in the irreparable loss that the Turkish Nation has suffered in the passing away of one of the greatest sons of Islam and a world figure and the saviour and maker of Modern Turkey Kemal Ataturk”. (Ibid Page 307)

The Muslim League adopted the following resolution: “Resolved that this Annual Session of the All India Muslim League expresses its deepest feelings of sorrow and grief at the sad demise of Ataturk Ghazi Mustafa Kemal Pasha whom it acknowledges as a truly great personality in the Islamic world, a great general and a great statesman. He rebuilt and revived the Turkish Nation after its defeat and disintegration and in spite of opposition from the European powers succeeded in defeating the enemies of Turkey and within a short time brought his country in the front rank of nations. By establishing a concord and alliance of the Eastern Nations he guided the East to the true goal of political power and prosperity. His memory will inspire Muslims all over the world with courage, perseverance and manliness. With this expression of its heartfelt grief, the Session of the All India Muslim League wishes to convey its message of sympathy and condolence to the Turkish nation in its great bereavement.” (Ibid Page 581)

And Iqbal was one who appreciated the idea of ijtihad in religious and political thought of the Turkish state the most. He unreservedly agreed with the Turkish view that according to the spirit of Islam, the caliphate or imamate could be vested in a body of persons or an elected assembly.

YLH

Exquisite!:tup:

I am wiser today, did not know this!


When this is you, truly, why would you get into topics resulting in slugfest like the other day? I have a quarrel to pick with you on that, my friend, someday, at an appropriate forum and time!

You are a bloody lawyer!!!!:rofl:

@WAJsal This is what I meant .... someone posting something great for all to learn.
 
Speaker National Assembly Sardar Ayaz Sadiq on Thursday said that friendship between Pakistan and Turkey is time tested and have roots in history.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-turkey-friendship-rooted-in-history-ayaz.446122/#ixzz4IQyM9cwx

Which history?
Muslim support (from primarily modern day Pakistan) for the Ottoman Empire during WW1. Most Muslim soldiers deserted, defected or were executed when they heard they were going up against their Ottoman brothers.

During the Turkish war of independence; guns, ammunition and supplies were smuggled from Pakistan to support the war effort. Thousands of volunteer fighters from Punjab and KPK also went to join the war on Turkey's side.

Thousands of volunteers joined Azerbaijan during the Armenian-Azerbaijan war as well.
 
Nothing will be able to break our relationship with Pakistan as our friendship/brotherly feelings are well rooted in both people. The sacrifices and support our ancestors received from Pakistan in one of the darkest hours of our history simply can't be forgotten nor made to be forgotten.

We need to move towards conceret developments...statements are not enough in the fast changing global geopolitics.

Pak must bring Turkey and China close to each other...as Turkey restoring its ties with Russia.

Turkey must be given an accelerated SCO membership and become a stakeholder of strability and peace in central asia. Here Pak-Turk can play a joint positive role.

Also the trade between Turk-Pak friends must be the strategic focus. Pak can learn a lot from Truks.

Military industrial cooperation is already taking shape so no worries there.

In the end without Turkeys participation into OBOR and eaurasain economic integeration...the strategic benefits will not be fully realised. Turkey is a pivotal state just like Pak.

Hopefully, Iran palys a constructive role and joins CPEC sooner than later...this will also connect Turkey wiht CPEC and turkish goods can reach west and south africa faster and cheaper.

Things need to move faster. Talks are not enough anymore.

Actions!!!!!
I'm sure that ties with China will improve to new historical heights too, just like is expected with Russia and Iran, but as you said more action is needed. China was one of the first countries, together with Russia and Iran, to support and even send a minister to Turkey after the failed 'coup' attempt by Gulenists and most probably the US (cia) too. It's just my opinion, but i think it's just a matter of time for Turkey to gradually switch to China-Iran-Russia block while getting rid of excessive (geo)political and military US/nato influence.
 
I know it for a fact (based on my personal involvement in official capacity) how serious the current government and the military are in strengthening relations with Turkey much stronger. Similarly with China, which is public knowledge.

The world in general isn't aware of how strong and united Turkey has become and where it's headed under its current leadership.

I agree with our Turkish brother who posted above that there must be ACTIONS and fast, to solidify these relationships backed by economic and military strategic cooperation.
 
Muslim support (from primarily modern day Pakistan) for the Ottoman Empire during WW1. Most Muslim soldiers deserted, defected or were executed when they heard they were going up against their Ottoman brothers.

During the Turkish war of independence; guns, ammunition and supplies were smuggled from Pakistan to support the war effort. Thousands of volunteer fighters from Punjab and KPK also went to join the war on Turkey's side.

Thousands of volunteers joined Azerbaijan during the Armenian-Azerbaijan war as well.


Thanks a lot for your input.

May I also add that the British Indian Army had a significant number of soldiers of Muslim faith and while it was pre-dominantly from North-Western part of the British India Empire, the feeling was spread over the entire span of the British Indian Empire.

Also, this was probably the last time that there was a strong bonhomie between Muslims and all other religions against the British act of waging a war on something dear to the Muslims of Indian Sub-Continent, the Caliph.

Ask Turks that Question. That's how they refer it. 1912 is recent history.

There are lot of things that are inaccurate, I am merely noting for my own accuracy. Facts are the essence to correctly understand. Hence, my quip there. I am sure, you must be aware of the facts for the rationale I have used here.

Thanks
 
Was Pakistan there during the period of the said war 1919-22? Interesting to note your contention here!
No there wasn't. But our ancestors were surely there.

May I also add that the British Indian Army had a significant number of soldiers of Muslim faith and while it was pre-dominantly from North-Western part of the British India Empire, the feeling was spread over the entire span of the British Indian Empire.
Yes but almost all of these Muslim soldiers were recruited from the "martial races" of today's Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan and KPK.

Also, this was probably the last time that there was a strong bonhomie between Muslims and all other religions against the British act of waging a war on something dear to the Muslims of Indian Sub-Continent, the Caliph.
Not at all, whenever Pakistan fought with India; thousands of Muslim volunteers all around the world came to fight for Pakistan. Even the Azerbaijan-Armenian war saw over 6,000 Muslim volunteers. Today's war on terror is a domino effect of the US invasion of Iraq.
 

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