Pakistan to stick with RD-93 engine for JF-17, say PAF officials

[Syed Hussain]

Hi,

For a 24 years old---you are a smart kid----. This was a good write---. I wish I had you r ability to write when I was 24---damn if only I was not chasing---.

I still smell irony from your comments but for an example, look at our PM and President and tell me that are they anyhow better than you in any way other than the money and influence? they are simply schmucks made to look important through their positions. Now the "Generals" may have things like uniforms and off the media status with tons of "military fans" to glorify them but majority of them are no different because they come through same system though a little "disciplined". "Grey hair don't represent wisdom" as they say in a German proverb.

 

[MastanKhan]

1stly it was me in post#21
2ndly how do u purpose incresed block3 (more power consuming electronics )loitertime(CFTs) without bigger engine.
YES, we need heavies, but still it would help if we can increase the range of thunder without much investment.

Hi,

For the Gripen NG---saab came up with new designed fuel tanks that can hold 450 gals of fuel each---which is giving it a longer loiter time than in the older model---here is a picture

See---the 2 fuel tanks on the belly---they are not round anymore---but more squarish---flatter and aerodynamic in the front----.

So---if the current tank on the JF 17 holds 250 gals of fuel----and if enhanced to this design----you can possibly add another 75 to a 100 gals on each tank----you got it made----. What do you think @Indus Falcon @Khafee

I still smell irony from your comments but for an example, look at our PM and President and tell me that are they anyhow better than you in any way other than the money and influence? they are simply schmucks made to look important through their positions. Now the "Generals" may have things like uniforms and off the media status with tons of "military fans" to glorify them but majority of them are no different because they come through same system though a little "disciplined". "Grey hair don't represent wisdom" as they say in a German proverb.

Hi,

Well---here is the thing----NO sane nation would allow Zardari to be the president---and NO sane nation would allow Nawaz and co for the thrid time----and that is after the nation rejected both of them.

Pakistanis don't understand what the priorities of these two guys are---they are here seeking revenge. Nawaz more so than Zardari---because people distributed sweets when he was kicked out in 1999---and Zardari did what he did because the nation had always condemned him---.

Both these guys are on a revenge mission---.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

The focus seems to be more in interesting the Russians to open a maintenance facility so that Russia can be pulled closer...besides..I doubt there are any other deliverable options available..The ej200 ..The Europeans aren't going to let chinese engineers anywhere close to thier product. ..and for the chinese engines. .hmm.

The funny part on this article was that pac designed the plane and that they "worked" extensively with the Russian engineers from klimov.

Engine!

U stupid DSI!

 

[nForce]

Engine!

U stupid DSI!

shameless calling others stupid!

 

[Umair Nawaz]

i guess pakistan thinks the ws-13 is no good for the jf-17. if this is the case then whats going to happen when it comes to the j31? i hear the tfx is a good proposal, featuring ej200 engines.

RD 93 MA as its already flown in China with.

shameless calling others stupid!

I also mentioned DSI

LOL if u dont read carefully enough, and on top of that write posts based on yr fantasies in our own forums then that is the ultimate reaction!

U dont like it, yr welcome to leave.

 

[nana41]

Hi,

The chinese will have to fight for the pole position---and make the deal real sweet---and in the end we may all be surprised that the WS10 got the deal.

View attachment 273336

Whats funny about it ? PAF was heavily involved in the design phase, from the very beginning. Dont be lazy, go to the JF-17 evolution thread.

Just as India had the provision to replace Kaveri "Engine" with GE 404 for the most advance fighter called TEJAS,a competent rival to American F-22 within the next 15 years,under Modi`s make in India revolution.......I think .

 

[MastanKhan]

1stly it was me in post#21
2ndly how do u purpose incresed block3 (more power consuming electronics )loitertime(CFTs) without bigger engine.
YES, we need heavies, but still it would help if we can increase the range of thunder without much investment.

If you look at the JF17 fuel tank picture----it can be modified very easily for another 50 to a 100 gals more----just by changing the shape to that of the gripen.

 

[PakEye]

Paris Air Show 2015: JF-17 fighter flying with indigenous Chinese turbofan
Chinese officials have confirmed that a new indigenous engine is being flight tested for JF-17
A senior Chinese aviation official has revealed that the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation FC-1/JF-17 fighter co-developed with Pakistan has been test-flown with a new Chinese medium-thrust turbofan engine.

Li Yuhai, an executive vice president with the Aviation Industries Corporation of China (AVIC), told IHS Jane's at the Paris Airshow that a new Chinese turbofan for the J-17 has been "under testing," has completed "lab tests", and that "flight testing is in progress". He also said that the new engine would have a thrust slightly greater than the 8.7-ton thrust of the JF-17's current Klimov RD-93 turbofan.

At a joint Sino-Pakistani press conference on 15 June, Li also said progress was being made on the twin-seat version of the JF 17.

Pakistani sources at Paris confirmed that a JF-17 has been flying with the new Chinese turbofan, which could be revealed publicly "very soon". There is a suggestion the engine could be named 'WS-17' to complement the JF-17b, but officials did not provide any further performance indicators.
Paris Air Show 2015: JF-17 fighter flying with indigenous Chinese turbofan | IHS Jane's 360

 

[Tameem]

Paris Air Show 2015: JF-17 fighter flying with indigenous Chinese turbofan
Chinese officials have confirmed that a new indigenous engine is being flight tested for JF-17
A senior Chinese aviation official has revealed that the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation FC-1/JF-17 fighter co-developed with Pakistan has been test-flown with a new Chinese medium-thrust turbofan engine.

Li Yuhai, an executive vice president with the Aviation Industries Corporation of China (AVIC), told IHS Jane's at the Paris Airshow that a new Chinese turbofan for the J-17 has been "under testing," has completed "lab tests", and that "flight testing is in progress". He also said that the new engine would have a thrust slightly greater than the 8.7-ton thrust of the JF-17's current Klimov RD-93 turbofan.

At a joint Sino-Pakistani press conference on 15 June, Li also said progress was being made on the twin-seat version of the JF 17.

Pakistani sources at Paris confirmed that a JF-17 has been flying with the new Chinese turbofan, which could be revealed publicly "very soon". There is a suggestion the engine could be named 'WS-17' to complement the JF-17b, but officials did not provide any further performance indicators.
Paris Air Show 2015: JF-17 fighter flying with indigenous Chinese turbofan | IHS Jane's 360

New Engine with more thrust...
This is a very big news....Its means an AESA radar is on its way on JF17 As well...Yahoo!!

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

Klimov RD-33 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The RD-33MK "Morskaya Osa" (Russian: Морская Оса: "Sea Wasp") is the latest model developed in 2001. It is intended to power the MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB shipborne fighters, however it has also been adopted for the MiG-35. The RD-33MK develops 7% higher thrust, is digitally controlled FADEC and smokeless unlike earlier RD-33 engines, has increased afterburner thrust to 9,000 kilograms-force (88,000 N; 20,000 lbf) and dry weight 1,145 kilograms (2,524 lb) compared to the baseline model through modern materials used on the cooled blades, although it retains the same length and maximum diameter. Incorporated is an infrared and optical signature visibility reduction systems. Service life has been increased to 4,000 hours. The RD-33MK ensures shipborne fighters unassisted take-off capability, retain performance in hot climate environment and, naturally, a boost in combat efficiency for MiG-29 fighter latest variant.[9][10]

 

[ZARAJ]

Currently with Block1 thrust is 84.6kN with after burner and with RD93MA it will be increases to 91.2kN and more power required for AESA radar in block3. Pakistan and china already has a deal for 100 RD93 which will be surely used for Block1 and Block2. My personal guess is that Block3 will surly have RD93MA to meet the requirements of this Block. with increases thrust and with more composite materials on the plane it will surly increase the speed of aircraft. (Block3 is supposed to be atleast Mach 2.0).
Pakistan is also in talks with russia to establish an overhauling and repairing station for these engines. so it makes sense to stick to RD93/93MA since it is proven, tested and reliable and most importntly fullfils the needs for the jf. PAF has gained much experiance on this one.

 

[Al-Taïr]

@MastanKhan @Indus Falcon @khanasifm check out this RD-133 Russian Military Forces | Aviation | Navy | Infantry firearms | Communications | Ground systems | Weapon photogallery
If we can make an arrangement similar to RD-93 (increased power decreased life) Hopefully invest in its development. this RD-193 can give thunder a big push up the "generation" chronology . It will truly out perform our F-16s (I Think)
and Brother Mastan.. yes square shaped tacks could carry more fuel, but only IF surface area is much bigger.
which means.. for same drag, round fuel tanks will carry more fuel.
what we CAN do for increase loiter time

1) is reduce drag.. surface of thunder looks very rough. I can literally see rivets holding the metal sheets in place. it needs to be improved.. Its about time we use 3Dprinters.
2) increase use of composites.. reduced weight will increase range.
3) increase height to/and fit two drop tank in line (head to tail) below the belly.
4) use stages of fuel tanks. (like in space rockets) 1st stag can fuel the take off.. which requires most fuel used in a second.
5) slight redesigning of wings. (shortening the overall wing span & making it slightly diamond shaped) like yf23,f22&f35.. IMO it will reduce the drag by reducing frontal area but retaining the total area required for lift., and wing roots would carry more fuel. decrease in mobility can be compensated by TVC nozzles .​

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan @Indus Falcon @khanasifm check out this RD-133 Russian Military Forces | Aviation | Navy | Infantry firearms | Communications | Ground systems | Weapon photogallery
If we can make an arrangement similar to RD-93 (increased power decreased life) Hopefully invest in its development. this RD-193 can give thunder a big push up the "generation" chronology . It will truly out perform our F-16s (I Think)
and Brother Mastan.. yes square shaped tacks could carry more fuel, but only IF surface area is much bigger.
which means.. for same drag, round fuel tanks will carry more fuel.
what we CAN do for increase loiter time

1) is reduce drag.. surface of thunder looks very rough. I can literally see rivets holding the metal sheets in place. it needs to be improved.. Its about time we use 3Dprinters.
2) increase use of composites.. reduced weight will increase range.
3) increase height to/and fit two drop tank in line (head to tail) below the belly.
4) use stages of fuel tanks. (like in space rockets) 1st stag can fuel the take off.. which requires most fuel used in a second.
5) slight redesigning of wings. (shortening the overall wing span & making it slightly diamond shaped) like yf23,f22&f35.. IMO it will reduce the drag by reducing frontal area but retaining the total area required for lift., and wing roots would carry more fuel. decrease in mobility can be compensated by TVC nozzles .​

Hi,

Fuel tanks is the easiest thing to do----the surface area will be bigger by default once the design is changed similar to the Gripen----from the existing tank. Round fuel tanks don't carry more fuel under this restriction ---you can make the corners and edges more aero dynamic while keeping the same width and height---maybe make it more rectangular

Here---the design is right in front of our faces----GB6----the current tank can be designed in this shape and the plumbing attached at the right places---.

This modification is the simplest and the easiest---and if it give each tank a 100 gals extra fuel----then once refueled in the air right after take off---I would say that we now have a loiter time of around 2 1/2 hours----+++which is sufficient for the time being.

 

[pkd]

Hi,

Fuel tanks is the easiest thing to do----the surface area will be bigger by default once the design is changed similar to the Gripen----from the existing tank. Round fuel tanks don't carry more fuel under this restriction ---you can make the corners and edges more aero dynamic while keeping the same width and height---maybe make it more rectangular

View attachment 273518

Here---the design is right in front of our faces----GB6----the current tank can be designed in this shape and the plumbing attached at the right places---.

This modification is the simplest and the easiest---and if it give each tank a 100 gals extra fuel----then once refueled in the air right after take off---I would say that we now have a loiter time of around 2 1/2 hours----+++which is sufficient for the time being.

I think this might need some structure modifications as well. If you look closely at the Gripen, it has a flatter belly which naturally provides for more surface area to house two fuels tanks in contrast to the round bellied JF-17 . With a round belly there isn't much space available for two tanks let alone all the piping needed to connect it to the main tanks and fuel pumps.
Also keep in mind that retractable drogues could not be installednbecause of the very same reason.

 

[Al-Taïr]

Hi,

Fuel tanks is the easiest thing to do----the surface area will be bigger by default once the design is changed similar to the Gripen----from the existing tank. Round fuel tanks don't carry more fuel under this restriction ---you can make the corners and edges more aero dynamic while keeping the same width and height---maybe make it more rectangular
.

I think GB6's planer edges have more to do with lower radar signature.
rectangular tanks could work, but will need very precise placement on jet . if airflow on one side of tank can be reduced by little gap between jet & tank.
WE NEED EXPERT's opinion.