Pakistan to raise 12,000 Marines in a new branch of Navy

[Gryphon]

Why don't you add QW-18 in the Air Defence section? At wiki.

QW-18 is currently used by Marines, not PA.

This may change in future as IICS plans assembly of QW-18 as Anza Mk 3.

 

[Sabretooth]

If the purpose is to secure the seas and ports then all we need is an improved and well-equipped coast guard and that is it. Why do we need an expeditionary force?

 

[maverick1977]

Any proposed expansion of Pakiatan Marines as a regional force with amphibious assault transport ships ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasp-class_amphibious_assault_ship

 

[Cuirassier]

QW-18 is currently used by Marines, not PA.

This may change in future as IICS plans assembly of QW-18 as Anza Mk 3.

The page needs reorganizing, add systems used by tri-services too.

 

[Bullzz]

3 Commodores of Pak Marines are visible in this picture........

1. Commodore Zahid
2. Commodore Shahid
3. Commodore Faisal

It Means Pak Marines have reached a Div strength comprising of 2 Battalions in each Brigade.

 

[khanasifm]

3 Commodores of Pak Marines are visible in this picture........

1. Commodore Zahid
2. Commodore Shahid
3. Commodore Faisal

It Means Pak Marines have reached a Div strength comprising of 2 Battalions in each Brigade.

Brigade in army is usually made up of min. 3-5 infantry battalion plus supporting elements ~4-5k strength, div has usually 3 or more brigades 15-20k strength

 

[Trango Towers]

Bloody waste of money. What is the point of Marines? What seaborne attack are we contemplating? Attacking Oman? Or securing the sea?

First please, please please can we secure Karachi and FATA then we can think of the sea.

And u r in a think tank.....loooool
No need to answer.

 

[PAR 5]

PN Marines strength needs to increase because they have to defend CPECs interest along the coastline of Pakistan. That is why China is as well providing good funds as grants and soft loans directly to PN for equipment, weapons and personnel development

 

[Joe Shearer]

This isn't that hard to understand. The sea boundaries of Pakistan have been extended by exploration zone's additions (by a few hundred miles). That means, like the remainder of the world (and considering Pakistan's growing economy), Pakistan would want her navy's power projection away from its shores.

That would serve another purpose also, the PN would keep around quarter to half of its assets outside of the immediate conflict zone with India, making it very difficult for the IN to blockade Karachi / Gawader port. More than likely, the PN would build a few temporary stations (for rotations), on a few Islands that are located in the few hundred miles economic and exploration zone. These would provide additional coverage and naval operational capability away from Pakistan's shored.

These 12,000 marines would be either used for that purpose or will be stationed around the ports and the naval soldiers currently assigned to that area will be sent to the expanded boundaries.

12,000 marines without aerial capability or amphibious capability will make it difficult for the IN to blockade Karachi or Gwadar?

"Naval soldiers" currently assigned to that area will be sent to the expanded boundaries?

These are indeed strategic measures of a very high level. @Indus Pakistan, obviously your beloved Gangadesis are doomed; have you picked out a spot for them to kneel in surrender? No need to waste precious timber on chairs and tables, or more precious timber on paper for unconditional surrender agreements.

Excuse me while I totter off to an early grave.

Spot on there. Don't tell me I am the only one embarrased about our cops. The only "fear" about them is the stupid "No Fear" labels stuck on their backside. I mean which idiot came up with that idea. I swear there is some joker in Pakistan fully employed to come up with most banal names like "Elite mother*** Police" the only elite thing about them is they are No. 1 as*holes.

Sloppy, lazy, overweight, singularly lacking in any prefessionalism and corrupt to boot. We need to raise new police force across the country, minimum height and build, not fat slobs or stick insects, men with some gravitas, some decent education and give them proper conditions of work including training, equipment and no offence buy them decent friggin uniforms. No infant game outfits.

I would reduce the army by 50,000 men and the money transferred into new upgraded police force. We also need lots of police armoured vehicles.



I was being charitable in case we have some Omani members. Trust me, you, I, and Save ghenda could do it ......

Edit: We don't need a massive army now that we have nuclear weapons.

With respect, the last thing you should do is to militarise the police. A militarised police are not police. Think about the British Bobby that used to be, managing things perfectly well with a truncheon. It's not about you, we are facing the horrible consequences in India of allowing every sub-section of the Ministry of Home Affairs create its own private army, that ultimately lands up only in a limitless supply of orderlies to help the Memsahib carry the shopping bags after an exhausting day on the malls. Just look at the list of organisations that are supposed to patrol Indian borders and you will see for yourself the future shape of things if you encourage civil servants to produce paltans on demand.

The whole concept of the police in south Asia needs drastic re-thinking.

As for defence of CPEC and defence of the coasts, none of that is going to be solved by adding marines to your force mix. As a wise man in this cacophony has already tried to point out, it is a sheer waste of money. Perhaps some lunatic has a medium term vision of a full-scale Marine Corps some years ahead, with its own amphibious capability and its own aerial capacity, patrolling the Persian Gulf while both Arabs and Iranians contemplate the scene with satisfied looks.

PS: This is without prejudice; the views of @Armchair, @Aamir Hussain, @Signalian and, naturally, @MastanKhan need to be evaluated separately. It doesn't look as if any response is called for, only a critique of the thinking on the subject as it is available here.

 

[IceCold]

12,000 marines without aerial capability or amphibious capability will make it difficult for the IN to blockade Karachi or Gwadar?

If i may, PN has been neglected for far too long and while you are correct in your own way of expressing that manpower is only one aspect of the whole warfare and without proper tools to back them up, they will not enhance the over all effectiveness of the PN against IN.
However let me do point out that PN has started to gain some attention as you can see the whole procurement process has started gaining momentum with new subs that will be able to launch Babur cruise missile to the type 54 frigates being acquired along with new corvettes being acquired from Turkey. Point is new aerial and amphibious capabilities will be added along with raising marines. Naturally it does not make sense for any professional force to just raise battalions without giving them the means to act.

 

[Joe Shearer]

If i may, PN has been neglected for far too long and while you are correct in your own way of expressing that manpower is only one aspect of the whole warfare and without proper tools to back them up, they will not enhance the over all effectiveness of the PN against IN.
However let me do point out that PN has started to gain some attention as you can see the whole procurement process has started gaining momentum with new subs that will be able to launch Babur cruise missile to the type 54 frigates being acquired along with new corvettes being acquired from Turkey. Point is new aerial and amphibious capabilities will be added along with raising marines. Naturally it does not make sense for any professional force to just raise battalions without giving them the means to act.

Let us wait and see. However, the present initiative seems to be to create some form of gendarmerie; that is a very slippery slope, as I would like to testify from the Indian experience. The key to it is the mission this new force will be equipped to do.

 

[ghazi52]

Home of Marines

PNS QASIM

 

[ziaulislam]

Pakistan needs down sizing of its manpower ..even india is doing it for cost saving reason.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Signalian]

Let us wait and see. However, the present initiative seems to be to create some form of gendarmerie; that is a very slippery slope, as I would like to testify from the Indian experience. The key to it is the mission this new force will be equipped to do.

PN was not given importance in the past based on the length of the coastline of Pakistan. The unfolding of events has shown that the flaw in that thinking pattern. Now most of areas of PN are being expanded; surface combatants, subs, aircrafts, helicopters, installations, bases and of course Marines. When talking of Marines, the equipment shows them as light infantry with AD capability, mostly like National Guard of Pakistan. NG battalions have the same role and almost the same equipment, the only difference being that NG is deployed on land while Marines are deployed on coast. However, if you look closely, there is one huge difference (no not the uniforms or hierarchy of who they report to !!!), Pakistan Marines are trained for carrying out assaults (amphibious and conventional) while the NG is trained primarily to defend an area.

My point being :The role of Marines, based on their training, not equipment, is to fight a war on enemy's turf just like regular infantry of Pakistan Army.

In order to enhance the offensive capability of the ground formations of Pakistan Military, the role of Marines in future conflicts is being expanded. lets talk about the training part first and then we can come on the equipment part. Training of Marines is carried out in Army's institutions (such as Infantry School, Quetta etc). You will be familiar with the level of instruction, training, tactic etc taught at that institution. Marines are being trained not to police inside Pakistan but to fight inside India. Marines work closely with Army and presently depend upon heavy fire support support from Army. The training of Marines as seen in amphibious warfare is assaulting beaches, riverines etc, not carrying out IB-Ops like FC, Police etc. Marines use light weapons as they still are tasked with guarding installations, raiding ships if necessary to assist Coast guard and safe guard the coast.

Coming to the equipment part, If PA is generous enough to hand over MBT and artillery to ParaMilitary (FC), then there are bright chances that Marines could get equipment seconded from the Army. Although FC has got its own training schools, out of necessity FC was given training on this heavy equipment in Army's Armor and Artillery Schools. Since the FC operated in an environment and against an enemy where such weapons were necessary, something that couldn't have been expected maybe two decades ago. Now Marines, who already are trained in Army institutions and operate closely with Army, at some stage can be given training on heavy weapons as the need arises.

Whenever there is talk of CPEC, protecting the waters and the coast becomes the focus of everyone. It is true that expansion of Navy is linked with CPEC project, however, there is much more at stake in case of war with India. 25 Mech Div of 5-Corps is tasked with penetrating eastwards inside India with jumping off point provided by 16 ID and 18 ID. Therefore, 5 Corps will leave its peacetime area and move out Sindh zone into India.The coastline is now empty of Army, with Rangers deployed in Karachi and assisting Army on the border. The formations based in Quetta will either go eastwards or north-east, to reinforce threatened sectors. FC will be deployed in Quetta and on western border. If the Marine formation is about a division strength or more, the coastline can be well defended in case of an amphibious attack, the rear area of 5-Corps can be protected by Marines incase of an air drop of IA into Sindh and the Marines can also protect the southern flank of 5-Corps by entering into India staying on 5-Corps southern flank, supported by 5-Corps assets for supplies and heavy firepower. A brigade sized Marine force can do neither of these tasks, division strength is required. Considering the size of IN, an amphibious attack by PM would be suicidal but that depends upon circumstances present at that time.

During peace time in southern Pakistan, while the coast guard stays in waters, Rangers and FC Patrol the cities, Army sits in barracks or conducts exercises in desert, the Marines protect the creeks, the coast, Naval installations and assist navy and Coast Guard in Coastal Operations. IMO, to give more operational capabilities to Marines, they should be deployed on LOC and take part in WOT with Army. Extra 2-3 battalions of Marines on LOC with support of artillery from X-Corps or 12 ID will boost defensive and offensive capability of Pakistani assets in the region. The units of PA which need to go back to peace area deployment in cantts from Western border, can be replaced with a battalion or 2 of Marines. There is presence of Army required in Swat, a detachment of Marines can also serve in that area. Due to the training on Army's standards, Marines can easily replace infantry battalions of Pakistan Army whenever needed. Marines could form back up for Army, better than NG, FC and Rangers.