Pakistan To Participate In Turkey’s TFX Next-Gen Fighter Aircraft Program

[Mikaail]

What level of participation is being offered by Turks?

 

[SBD-3]

Im skeptical about the TFX, with planned induction of JSFs, doesnt seem to have a priority for Turkey. It always seemed like a backup project incase the JSF inductions dont happen but since that is going on JSF progress is going well, its better they concentrate on JSF.

It's more like a matter of national pride than anything else. Even if I assume that TFX is real and it's supposedly a stealish fighter.TuAF should better first fly it's JSFs to see how a 5th Gen is different from 4th Gen and what capabilities do they need more over the JSF. So showing the coup as an excuse, I believe Turks would have decided to wait for JSF to have some sort of benchmark for TFX.

From the little I know, JFT will have a stealthy single engine variant in the shape of block IV. Call that "stealth optimized" than total stealth if you will. The PAF wants the stealth tech and wants to master it internally, which makes perfect sense.

The PAF has realized the need for the heavies in comparison to India. More than likely, the TFX will be built in two versions, first, twin turbines and Pakistan will get those squadrons too to form her "Hi" and later, a higher thrust engine will be produced / procured for a single engine configuration for Pakistan (to replace the F-16's eventually).

J-31 was recently rejected by the PAF. They might come back to it, but they thought between TFX and JFT block IV, it would make more sense. However, common sense tells you that the J-31 should've been purchased. And now, may be it would be, after the recent challenges with India that took place last week under the threat of "full surgical strikes".

Even with the J-31 I'm not much hopeful that it would be around anytime soon. In fact the countries procuring JSF would have a considerable advantage over the other countries for quite some time in future. J-20,J-31_PAK-FA etc etc are still work in progress and for how long, God knows.
PAF should go for the J-10B, pinning hopes on J-31and TFX isn't a very good idea.

 

[!eon]

From the little I know, JFT will have a stealthy single engine variant in the shape of block IV. Call that "stealth optimized" than total stealth if you will. The PAF wants the stealth tech and wants to master it internally, which makes perfect sense.

The PAF has realized the need for the heavies in comparison to India. More than likely, the TFX will be built in two versions, first, twin turbines and Pakistan will get those squadrons too to form her "Hi" and later, a higher thrust engine will be produced / procured for a single engine configuration for Pakistan (to replace the F-16's eventually).

J-31 was recently rejected by the PAF. They might come back to it, but they thought between TFX and JFT block IV, it would make more sense. However, common sense tells you that the J-31 should've been purchased. And now, may be it would be, after the recent challenges with India that took place last week under the threat of "full surgical strikes".

What is that "stealth optimized" version. Can you kindly explain a bit more ?

TFX has only one version, already decided with twin engines @HAKIKAT

I don't think PAF has made any decision about J-31. It's too early.

 

[cabatli_53]

- TF-X version is not decided yet but The High probability, It will be twin engine variant.
- There is not any delay on project. A serious defense sources expressed such a thing but English ambassador denied it on twitter.
- F-35 is not an alternative for TF-X project so Turkey doesn't have an intention to select one over another.
-TF-X is not a national pride project but a serious one which has ambitious strategic plans for power projection of Turkish Republic.
- Do not forget that BAE is a partner of TF-X transferring know-how to Turkish design team. A group of BAE engineers are in Turkey at present.
- Pakistan is officially invited for TF-X cooperation.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Money isn't a real problem in our case.

Turkey runs $1.64B budget surplus in Jan-Aug

Govt runs budget surplus in Jan-Aug 2016 of 4.9B Turkish liras ($1.64B), says Finance Minister Agbal

http://aa.com.tr/en/economy/turkey-runs-164b-budget-surplus-in-jan-aug/648349

 

[Dirtdiver]

Diplomatically, what are the outcomes of Pakistan joining the program since they probably will go for local production if they have any serious interest on TF-X, wouldn't that make you wonder BAE's allowance of know-how technologies would be even more limited? That might also affect the performance and TURAF's future capabilities? Ignore my pragmatism please I am just trying to be rational here.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Diplomatically, what are the outcomes of Pakistan joining the program since they probably will go for local production if they have any serious interest on TF-X, wouldn't that make you wonder BAE's allowance of know-how technologies would be even more limited? That might also affect the performance and TURAF's future capabilities? Ignore my pragmatism please I am just trying to be rational here.

Pakistan's participation would not be that comprehensive. I expect we would put in an amount for development (10-15%?) and then procure the TFX as-is off-the-shelf from Turkey, but with rights to configure the platform according to our requirements. The transfer-of-technology element would likely involve MRO (to support the jets at home) and some co-production stuff, e.g. some parts manufacturing (LRU?), partial assembly maybe? But no, we would not be aiming for another JF-17-scale program, not for several decades at least.

 

[Mikaail]

Overall the prospect looks good for Pakistan. In fact Pakistani expertise gained from participation in the JF-17 program, regardless of the level of involvement, might be of assistance to Turkey.

Financially how stable is Pakistan's economy to support such a project is the question? Needless to say participation will involve domestic production, partially or full fledged, for sure. Which require heavy investments.

Don't really see a reason of delay from Turkey, financially & otherwise. Recent coup attempt might stall the TFX program momentarily, but nothing much.

Political willingness to participate is sufficient on both sides as well.

Fingers crossed.

 

[mikkix]

Talk Talk.............................................................................

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Financially how stable is Pakistan's economy to support such a project is the question?

This thread may help you....

https://defence.pk/forums/pakistan-economy.18/

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Overall the prospect looks good for Pakistan. In fact Pakistani expertise gained from participation in the JF-17 program, regardless of the level of involvement, might be of assistance to Turkey.

Financially how stable is Pakistan's economy to support such a project is the question? Needless to say participation will involve domestic production, partially or full fledged, for sure. Which require heavy investments.

Don't really see a reason of delay from Turkey, financially & otherwise. Recent coup attempt might stall the TFX program momentarily, but nothing much.

Political willingness to participate is sufficient on both sides as well.

Fingers crossed.

Worse comes to worst, it'd just be an off-the-shelf buy from Pakistan (for TFX or any other jet, e.g. FC-31 or KFX).

 

[YeBeWarned]

- TF-X version is not decided yet but The High probability, It will be twin engine variant.
- There is not any delay on project. A serious defense sources expressed such a thing but English ambassador denied it on twitter.
- F-35 is not an alternative for TF-X project so Turkey doesn't have an intention to select one over another.
-TF-X is not a national pride project but a serious one which has ambitious strategic plans for power projection of Turkish Republic.
- Do not forget that BAE is a partner of TF-X transferring know-how to Turkish design team. A group of BAE engineers are in Turkey at present.
- Pakistan is officially invited for TF-X cooperation.

Can't Explain better than that .. and conclusive too Allah Bless you brother

 

[T-123456]

Worse comes to worst, it'd just be an off-the-shelf buy from Pakistan (for TFX or any other jet, e.g. FC-31 or KFX).

Even the FC-31?

 

[YeBeWarned]

we would not be aiming for another JF-17-scale program, not for several decades at least.

is it because we may see block 4's and 5's in JF ?

 

[royalharris]

Whatever,the best luck