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Pakistan to buy only 18 F-16s

can u please get me the actual figures in this regards.... n also lemme knw the sorce....

For starters

LEADER ARTICLE: Revamp Defence Spending-Editorial-Opinion-The Times of India

LEADER ARTICLE: Revamp Defence Spending-Editorial-Opinion-The Times of India

LEADER ARTICLE: Revamp Defence Spending(Times of India)

The finance minister in this year's Budget has announced an outlay of Rs 1,05,600 crore for defence. It represents a 10 per cent increase over the previous year and may look impressive. But is this level of defence expenditure adequate given India's geo-strategic compulsions in its neighbourhood and its security imperatives? Can this sustain the ambitions of a nation on the way to attain 'superpower' status? Is it the maximum that India can afford to spend on defence? Based on an analysis of the international security environment and the military expenditure of some important nations, the answers to the above questions can only be in the negative.

The US is of course the largest military spender in the world. Its military budget is more than the combined budgets of the next 20 highest spenders in the world and it spends 4.1 per cent of its GDP on defence (3.1 per cent before the war in Iraq) while India now spends less than 2 per cent of its GDP on defence.

Let's look at India's neighbours. China spends an estimated 4.3 per cent of its GDP on defence and Pakistan 3.5 per cent. Beijing's high defence expenditure is evidently yielding dividends. Its relentless drive to attain blue water capability has enhanced its reach. Beijing's newly acquired capability to destroy satellites in space is another case in point and should give sleepless nights to mandarins in Delhi. China's claim to India's territories, including Arunachal Pradesh, is also a matter of grave concern to us.

The security threats that India faces are indeed diverse. Even sustaining the present rate of economic growth would require greater defence spending. For instance, the Sea Lines of Communication, which are the 'highways' of India's economic growth and on which is dependent around 90 per cent of India's overseas trade, needs to be protected. Given these security imperatives, the reduction in our defence spending as a percentage of GDP does not augur well for the nation.

The only silver lining is the increase in the capital expenditure (dealing with new acquisitions), which is the barometer of a nation's modernisation efforts. While the army, which consumes nearly 50 per cent of the defence budget, spends only around 25 per cent of its budget under the capital head, the navy and air force have succeeded in increasing their capital expenditure to nearly 60 per cent of their budgets. According to published data, the capital expenditure as a proportion of the total defence expenditure increased from nearly 25 per cent in 2000-01 to over 40 per cent in 2005-06. In tune with the growing trend, the budget for 2008-09 provides for over 45 per cent for capital expenditure.

But would it have been prudent for the finance minister to have further increased the defence budget? Paradoxically, the answer is no. The irony is that every year the three services and ministry of defence struggle to spend the defence budget. This triggers a blame game. The armed forces often blame the civilian bureaucracy for obstructing its acquisition proposals and accuse it of insensitivity to its modernisation needs. The bureaucrats in turn blame the armed services for half-baked proposals. The ministry of finance is also accused of undue delay in clearing proposals. Under virtually every government, defence allocations are not fully utilised.

The stark reality is that the present organisational set-up and acquisition procedures may not be able to handle larger defence budgets efficiently. With defence contracts often attracting accusations of kickbacks, officials are chary of displaying missionary zeal in processing proposals. The defence procurement procedures have no doubt been modified and made elaborate. But they are still seen as an obstacle to the expeditious processing of proposals. Formulation of staff quality requirements or specifications of weapons and systems are presently undertaken by the respective services and are time-consuming. Trials also do take considerable time and may be inevitable in some cases. The cumulative impact of all these drawbacks is that the much-needed defence modernisation of the armed forces suffers.

The need of the hour is a complete overhauling of the existing system and adoption of the best practices and 'smart acquisition' procedures evolved by countries such as France and the UK. France has the Delegation Generale pour l'Armement (DGA) and the UK the Defence Equipment and Support and Equipment Capability Customer. These are dedicated and integrated organisations with a well-trained workforce with long tenures. They are responsible for virtually all aspects of fulfilling the capability requirements of the armed forces and plan, budget, procure, conduct R&D and undertake trials. Integrated project management teams are also constituted for major projects.

However, in India, the approach is anything but integrated and the responsibility is diffused among many wings of the services and the ministry of defence with no one entity responsible for the final outcome. To compound difficulties, the workforce entrusted with the acquisition responsibilities has no training and short tenures.

The Kelkar committee in its report, Towards Strengthening Self Reliance in Defence Preparedness, of 2006 recommended the establishment of a similar system as the DGA of France in India. India cannot afford to wait endlessly to bring about a holistic change in the defence acquisition apparatus if it has to develop the military sinews required to be a true superpower.
 
there is a diffierent type of F-16on IDEAS website. Any 1 no what that is????????
 
there is a diffierent type of F-16on IDEAS website. Any 1 no what that is????????

It is an F-16 Block 50 with conformal fuel tanks (giving more fuel hence more range). It is also superior to current F-16s Pakistan has in many aspects.
 
my,, dear sir, ARAZ,
i would like to state here, that era of F-16s in PAF is over sir! we had to look forward sir, i am 100% agreed with your view sir,,, but i guss it is the time and the decision has been taken already PAF is not willing to get more F-16s.
PAF is certnly looking J-10s as new strike plateform for its , needs i think,,, reason behind that is the availiblity of the birds! j-10 s are the gettables in any kind of situation PAF wouldbe facing in comming future, as for F-16s , PAF had bitter expirences with USA, and PAF isnt ready for those gone years ,when they were stopped by some US EMBARGO .

it is a perfect time for PAF, to change its policy..... any how its a simple point , that how best F-16S were , as greatest strike and multirole fightter , they cantbe flying into air against an enemy ..... WHICH can be its owenners guss........ who? anything is possible , so its important that PAF,,, should have some force, which canbe in the air anytime, without fearing the shortages and embargo s .:D:pakistan::enjoy::china:
in the end ARAZ SIR.... i will be looking for your help... and forgivness.
thankyou
allaha hafiz

what makes you say its over - this reduction was rumoured and it dosnt come as a surprise (however sometimes i feel we dont know what our needs are).also note that the weapons package remains intact.

the 2nd track of acquiring the 28 F-16s (block 15 MLU) is on plus the upgrade of the existing fleet has started and finally the USAF will free more F-16 block 30/40 to the PAF as they are withdrawn from US service. i am assuming that the MLU F-16s are probably just as good as a new block 50s in terms of agility and warfare.

one will eventually see 6 sqdns + 1 OCU of F-16s with the PAF.
 
A very famous theory exist, right after the success of JF17, US offered Pakistan unlimited number of F16, just to make this plane un-successful.
All this scenario has political ground. Once Pakistan start producing fighter jets then Pakistan Air force don't need to brag for parts and services or facing embargo time after time. Pakistan airforce face embargo hundred of times. After Clinton embargo Pakistan learn hard lesson. But on the other hand Pak friendly Republican will not always in power. Whenever democrats will come in power they affiliate Pak defence assistance through some special laws etc etc.
But its good idea to have US and European technology side by side. It give lots of capability to PAF. But JF17 has lot more priority for Pakistan air force then F16. All PAF need is flying platform fore next few years and PAF engineer are capable of doing modification in structure time after time.
 
A very famous theory exist, right after the success of JF17, US offered Pakistan unlimited number of F16, just to make this plane un-successful.
All this scenario has political ground. Once Pakistan start producing fighter jets then Pakistan Air force don't need to brag for parts and services or facing embargo time after time. Pakistan airforce face embargo hundred of times. After Clinton embargo Pakistan learn hard lesson. But on the other hand Pak friendly Republican will not always in power. Whenever democrats will come in power they affiliate Pak defence assistance through some special laws etc etc.
But its good idea to have US and European technology side by side. It give lots of capability to PAF. But JF17 has lot more priority for Pakistan air force then F16. All PAF need is flying platform fore next few years and PAF engineer are capable of doing modification in structure time after time.

Haider,
There is nothing new in that. i heard that when USA found out that we had locally manufactured night vision goggles, suddenly we were offered NVDs. The interest is always to keep us dependant. It is not just the USA. This is the mentality of all developed countries and a traders mentality. I strongly feel that we should acquire as much knowhow as we can about industry and become as close to self reliant as is possible so tommorrow we are dependant on no one.
araz
 
don't you guyz love it when evil designs against pakistan fail and these nations start sucking up to Pakistan?

power is delicious, addictive, and intoxicating. Pakistan will one day connect and hold Asia together, I hope we become a power that calls the shots in Asia and the Middle East.:devil::smokin:
 
Araz you right up to certain extent, but JF17 platform partially tilting the US interest in Pakistan. Chinese provide a platform for the future of our air defence industry. Otherwise we been again waiting for parts. Thanks to Turkey who kept Pak F16 flying order.
 
JF-17 still has a ways to go IMO...batch-II will be a definite improvement, so will batch-III, etc, but the key of this fighter won't shine until much later IMO. I would be pleased if they can at least apply composites to the fuselage and increase the hardpoints to 9 along with the expected avionics, ECM/EW, radar & weapon-systems improvements in the batch-II. While an impressive improvement to what we currently have, the JF-17 will be facing the future and would at best be a contemporary work-horse fighter.

The real deal IMO would be to what fighter PAF can come up with in the 2020s and see if PAC ends up producing that fighter. This 'new fighter' would settle the IAF MRCA threat and begin dealing with future issues - such as 5th generation fighters. It would be impressive if PAC begins producing a 5th generation fighter from 2025 or even 2030. The future IMO lies within a standardized fleet of a single and very capable 5+ generation manned fighter and support UCAVs for offensive/pre-emptive missions.
 
JF-17 still has a ways to go IMO...batch-II will be a definite improvement, so will batch-III, etc, but the key of this fighter won't shine until much later IMO. I would be pleased if they can at least apply composites to the fuselage and increase the hardpoints to 9 along with the expected avionics, ECM/EW, radar & weapon-systems improvements in the batch-II. While an impressive improvement to what we currently have, the JF-17 will be facing the future and would at best be a contemporary work-horse fighter.

The real deal IMO would be to what fighter PAF can come up with in the 2020s and see if PAC ends up producing that fighter. This 'new fighter' would settle the IAF MRCA threat and begin dealing with future issues - such as 5th generation fighters. It would be impressive if PAC begins producing a 5th generation fighter from 2025 or even 2030. The future IMO lies within a standardized fleet of a single and very capable 5+ generation manned fighter and support UCAVs for offensive/pre-emptive missions.

i know we r talking long-term but this is definately a tough ask to produce a 5th generation fighter. a country like india which has a more advanced industrial base is struggling with the LCA.
 
i know we r talking long-term but this is definately a tough ask to produce a 5th generation fighter. a country like india which has a more advanced industrial base is struggling with the LCA.
It is tough, but seriously with what is ringing on Chinese analysts' webpages, the Chinese 5th generation fighter is a few years away. Even the Indians are going the Pakistani route (on JF-17) by working directly with the Russians on a joint-project for PAK-FA. I believe that perhaps from 2025 PAC may begin producing 5th generation fighters.
 
I believe that perhaps from 2025 PAC may begin producing 5th generation fighters.
Highly unlikely. The only way the PAF will be able to procure a 5th generation fighter is if the J-XX is imported from China. However if the US maintains its influence/presence in Pakistan it is highly improbable that China will avail its most sensitive technology.
 
Highly unlikely.

Can you see in your crystal ball once more and tell us how likely is to produce 5th generation fighters for those nations who have yet to produce proper firing tanks?
 
It is tough, but seriously with what is ringing on Chinese analysts' webpages, the Chinese 5th generation fighter is a few years away. Even the Indians are going the Pakistani route (on JF-17) by working directly with the Russians on a joint-project for PAK-FA. I believe that perhaps from 2025 PAC may begin producing 5th generation fighters.

yes i support this view JV between pak-china has better chance of success!
 

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