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Pakistan - The Pathans

I am a pashtun from a marwat tribe and i would say sikhs were the first indics to cross indus and capture plain afghan/pashtun lands though they failed to occupy any of mountainious pashtun regions. Sikh forces were organized, disciplined and led by brilliant leader like ranjeet singh while pashtuns were divided into tribes which were enemies of each other so each tribe faced sikh forces on their own and got crushed.
Syed ahmad shaheed came from hindostan along with his followers to peshawer valley and organized a pashtun force with the help of which he defeated sikhs in two wars. Sikhs did'nt dare to attack again when syed ahmad bareilvi was incharge of pashtun forces.
Syed ahmad proclaimed himself ameer ul momineen and enforced sharia law in pashtun areas. Things turned ugly for him when he ordered yousafzais to marry their daughters to his indian companions. Pashtuns were already enraged by his attempt to finish jirga system so syed ahmad and co and pashtuns started infights, of which sikhs took advantagae and first they martyred syed ahmad in balakot and then defeated yousafazais.

I was reading history of bannu whose british writer said that bannu had 480 villages all of which were castles so no neighbour pashtun tribe was ever able to conquour bannu. Sikhs made several attempts on bannu but they were never able to capture bannu.
Marwats in that time were nomadic people , their area was under nawab of bhakar at that time. When sikhs arrived at marwat region then forces of nawab of mankera ran away before numerous sikhs without fight and lakki marwat came under sikhs. Sikhs built lakki fort near river gambila in marwat. Marwat people today remember sikhs as very cruel people , they welcomed british who took lakki from sikhs in 1840s. Hamaray ilakay main kisi zalim sakhs ko sikh se tashbeeh di jati he aur angraizo ko ache alfaaz k saat yaad kia jata he.

cool story bro. Sikhs created an empire despite being the smallest religious community of the time and ruled Punjab, Kashmir, and other parts we never made an attempt on the Khyber pass region Pashtuns battling Sikhs has not been documented the fact that the entire NW frontier is rugged and mountainous would have made it impossible for any one to militarily control
 
sikhs took advantagae and first they martyred syed ahmad in balakot and then defeated yousafazais.

How were yousufazais when it came to fighting? Because my father's ancestors (great grandparents) were part yousufazai and part rohilla.
 
cool story bro. Sikhs created an empire despite being the smallest religious community of the time and ruled Punjab, Kashmir, and other parts we never made an attempt on the Khyber pass region Pashtuns battling Sikhs has not been documented the fact that the entire NW frontier is rugged and mountainous would have made it impossible for any one to militarily control

Dude Ranjit Singh's family were muslims, and a lot of his army was muslim too. You can't even say his exploits were purely the work of sikhs.



Funny story about some pathans I know. My uncle's bodyguard in pakistan is a pathan and he told me a funny story while we were having tea in the morning. He said that his cousin and cousin's father had come back from Afghanistan fighting the Americans. He said his cousin and his father got into argument about who killed american soldier. Things got heated and the son and father drew guns on each other due to honour. The village leader/elder said to the son ok if you killed the american go stand over there, and said to the father ok, if you killed the american soldier go stand over there. They were both applauded by the villagers and the conflict was resolved.
 
Thats just a bundle of lies, completey baseless. I have been living all my life in NWFP and have friends from every corner of NWFP. I never heard any mention of Nalwa, not even from my grandfather or so.

The successes of sikhs in the reign of Ranjit Singh against Afghans was more due to internal strife and internal conflicts among afghan rulers and less due to sikh bravery.

These were sikhs that took refuge in the mountains every time Zaman Shah crossed the Indus. Zaman shah was not able to reach delhi simply because his brother Mahmood staged revolt against him each time Zaman crossed the Attock.

Zaman Shah was not cruel enough to kill all his brothers like great kings and thus had to suffer.


Dude, you really need to get out of this "Afghans are superior different unconquerable race" mentality. Their ghazis tried to do their stuff on us here in eastern India as well (at that time we Bhutia groups were a part of Mahajanapadas). All I can tell you is that the remnants of Gazi material was a really good fertilizer for our terrace cultivation. Whatever was surviving of them, was sent packing back to Afghanistan in splintered boxes :lol:.

Bet you've not learnt that in your school now, have you? Or for that matter any battle that showed any Islamic invader the signs of hell, for that matter. Only the material that says victories has been ingrained inside you. Hence you don't hear of anything that degrades Muslim invaders' position all around you. Especially with a skewed up curriculum that you guys undergo of history during studies.

See this is why debates really end up as trolling sessions.... because the history that you learnt is so skewed up politically that you don't even know what happened in the past.
 
How were yousufazais when it came to fighting? Because my father's ancestors (great grandparents) were part yousufazai and part rohilla.

Rohilla was an alternate term for yousafzais in india. Najib-ud-daula, hafiz rahmat khan, General bakht khan, all were yousafzais of rohilkhand.
They were allies of ahmad shah abdali in panipat war..
Here in pakhtunkhwa, army of syed ahmad shaheed mostly consisted of yousafzais, and this army defeated sikhs two times before getting into internal conflicts.
Yousafzais of nowadays are most settled and least martial and least tribal among pashtuns.
 
Rohilla was an alternate term for yousafzais in india. Najib-ud-daula, hafiz rahmat khan, General bakht khan, all were yousafzais of rohilkhand.
They were allies of ahmad shah abdali in panipat war..
Here in pakhtunkhwa, army of syed ahmad shaheed mostly consisted of yousafzais, and this army defeated sikhs two times before getting into internal conflicts.
Yousafzais of nowadays are most settled and least martial and least tribal among pashtuns.

I once read about Yusufzai's revolt against Aurangzeb in 1667 which was brutally crushed by Mughals. There were similar Pashtun revolts against Delhi Sultanate and Mughal whenever Pashtuns got a charismatic leader. Seems like Pashtuns never accepted Mughal rule.
 
Rohilla was an alternate term for yousafzais in india. Najib-ud-daula, hafiz rahmat khan, General bakht khan, all were yousafzais of rohilkhand.
They were allies of ahmad shah abdali in panipat war..
Here in pakhtunkhwa, army of syed ahmad shaheed mostly consisted of yousafzais, and this army defeated sikhs two times before getting into internal conflicts.
Yousafzais of nowadays are most settled and least martial and least tribal among pashtuns.

Interesting thanks.
 
Battle of Saragarhi - Myths and Facts

In 1897, during low intensity fighting with Afghan and Pathan people, what was initially described as a "very gallant" if futile 'resistance' of 21 Sikh sipahis against 'wild-spirited' Afridi and Orakzai Pathans, was carefully cultivated into an elaborate myth. The soldiers, who had all died, were said to have faced odds of 10,000 Afghans and had slain at least 180 of them, posthumous medals were awarded, each sikh regiment was ordered to honour 12th September as 'Saragrahi day' and a plaque was erected at the holiest of sikh shrines inside the walls of golden temple complex.
The Testimonies of Indian Soldiers and the Two World Wars: Between Self and ... - Gajendra Singh - Google Books

Colonial masters of India fabricated such story to boost the motivation of their desi troops . The fact is, 21 sikh soldiers at saragarhi, all of them got killed along with the destruction of fort they were defending. It was never determined how many tribesmen attacked saragarhi, they couldnt be 10000, as claimed, as Afridis and Orakzais never had this much numerical strength. According to to 1951 census of Pakistan ,the entire population of FATA was 1,332,005 i.e 1.3 million. In 1897, it would be around be 3 or 4 lakh. Now according to 1998 census of Pakistan, combined Orakzai agency and khyber agency make 25% of total population of FATA. If population of FATA in 1879 was 4 lakh, then the entire combined population of Orakzai and khyber agencies would be 1 lakh. Lets say 50% of them were females, so male population would be 50 thousands. It means out of 50 thousands male kids, young, middle-aged and old ones, ten thousands were busy surrounding a small fort on a hill. Take into account the fact that not every young male is a fighter in tribal areas, and exclude the kids and old ones. moreover considerable number of Afridis and shinwaris were in khyber rifles. Also some sections/sub-tribes of Afridis and Orakzais were not hostile to British raj and and were cooperative with British and remained neutral in the 1897 revolt..

British used to exaggerate the numbers of their enemies and hide their losses. The Pashtun uprising which took place in 1897, was all over the tribal areas and many parts of NWFP. It seems ridiculous that Afridis and Orakzais would waste their supposed thousands of lives on a small fort, we are talking about insurgency which covered the regions from swat to Quetta.. The loss of 181 Afghans killed by the artillery fire above from hilltop of saragrahi seems believable then 4800 claimed by sikhs, Pashtuns were masters of guerrilla warfare, particularly afridis who were more into sniping and ambushing enemy in small pockets than dashing at heavily armed fortified or armored enemy in thousands. Mehsuds were even more formidable in guerrilla warfare , they were actually able to defeat British army in 1919, inflicting 2500 losses on them. british retreated from waziristan, in some cases mehsuds even engaged gurkhas in hand to hand combat and inflicted heavier losses on them. British tried again in 1921-24, saw defeat again. At last royal air force only operation was conducted in 1925, mehsud villages were indiscriminately bombarded day and night for two moths, without sending ground forces......then mehsuds were defeated
 
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