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Pakistan: The ‘birth’ of a problem

..and I think no one in India is ever taught to hate a Pakistani... but when I get exposed to hatred towards India on Internet...I am sometimes bound to react.......
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Its a biggest lie i've ever heared.
Turn on any of your tv channels when any thing minor happens and they start blaming on Pakistan,if you go to any Indian defence forum they dont tolerate critisizem from Pakistanis,like you and your fellows are doing here,infact most anti Pakistan thread are open here in PDF by Indians,however your pals on the other hand ban Pakistanis for slight of critisizem.

Then when we look at your politcians all of them hate and spread hatered towards Pakistan on the other side many politicians here have soft corner for India eg. Altaf Hussain,Khan Wali Khan.

Next comes your bollywood prime tools of propaganda filled with anti Pakistan movies ridiculing Pakistan and Pakistanis.Do I have to name anti Pakistan movies?
Try Pakistani media least cares about your India,when some mishap happens the media doesnt simply without evidence does'nt balmes India.
And have we forgotten the melegan blasts which killed innocent Pakistanies in "Samjhot Express" by nortorius colonel Prohit blamed falsely on ISI and Pakistan, are these acts of Goodwill from your side?
The problem is you are unable to digest the retaliation inform of harsh words from some Pakistanis in Internet which are mostly outnumbered by your fellow country men doing same and sometimes more than that.
 
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:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Its a biggest lie i've ever heared turn on any of your tv channels when any thing minor happens and they start blaming on Pakistan,if you go to any Indian defence forum they dont tolerate critisizem from Pakistanis,like you and your fellows are doing here,infact most anti Pakistan thread are open here in PDF by Indians,however your pals on the other hand ban Pakistanis for slight of critisizem.

Then when we look at your politcians all of them hate and spread hatered towards Pakistan on the other side many politicians here have soft corner for India eg. Altaf Hussain,Khan Wali Khan.

Next comes your bollywood prime tools of propaganda filled with anti Pakistan movies ridiculing Pakistan and Pakistanis.Do I have to name anti Pakistan movies?
Try Pakistani media least cares about your India,when some mishap happens the media doesnt simply without evidence does'nt balmes India.
The problem is you are unable to digest the retaliation inform of harsh words from some Pakistanis which are mostly outnumbered by your fellow country men doing same and sometimes more than that.

Similar Anti India videos can be tracked Pakistani Channels....
Pakistani media is full of news items of India involved in each and every Terrorist attack on Pakistani soil....Lahore...Karachi..they even tried o blame Gojra...Killings on India ....


Last time I checked Indian news channel..talking about Pakistan it was flashing a news about Suicide Bomb blast in Pakistan....and I think thats not anti Pakistan Propaganda....
 
Similar Anti India videos can be tracked Pakistani Channels....
Pakistani media is full of news items of India involved in each and every Terrorist attack on Pakistani soil....Lahore...Karachi..they even tried o blame Gojra...Killings on India ....
Gojara was claimed by punjab law minister it was'nt media that claimed that and few of politcians blamed it on India unlike on your side. Give me one case when they gave premature blame on India or any expert moments latter the mishap, immediately blamed it on india,like it happened in case of Samjhota Express when your Tv channels and "EXPerts!" immediately blamed it on Pakistan even whitout any official statement or claim.

Last time I checked Indian news channel..talking about Pakistan it was flashing a news about Suicide Bomb blast in Pakistan....and I think thats not anti Pakistan Propaganda....
Now what can be said about India's obsession with "any thing" in Pakistan?:lol::lol::lol:
Lucky We!!!
 
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Gojara was claimed by punjab law minister it was'nt media that claimed that and few of politcians blamed it on India unlike on your side. Give me one case when they gave premature blame on India or any expert moment latter the mishap immediately blamed it on india,like it happened in case of Samjhota Express when your Tv channels and "EXPerts!" immediately blamed it on Pakistan even whitout any official statement or claim.


Now what can be said about India's obsession with "any thing" in Pakistan?:lol::lol::lol:
Lucky We!!!



Thats low grade media for you....if you believe in INDIA TV....and the likes....and I pity you watch those channels.....and I pity the youtube members who upload those videos...from those channels....


I have visited multiple Pakistani media websites and they do have a section on India....so Pakistan media is equally obsessed....:taz::taz::taz:
 
Thats low grade media for you....if you believe in INDIA TV....and the likes....and I pity you watch those channels.....and I pity the youtube members who upload those videos...from those channels....


I have visited multiple Pakistani media websites and they do have a section on India....so Pakistan media is equally obsessed....:taz::taz::taz:

Yeah Pakistan media is obsessed, but not to the degree or level the Indian Media is. To be speaking on a neutral side, the hate & war mongering which Indian media shows whenever something goes wrong, is in no way matched on the Pakistani Side.

I have never ever seen anything in Pakistani media on the level as the Indian Media shows. The aggressiveness the Indian media reporters show, the way they ask questions & do their analysis, it seems as if they are more eager & willing to start the war then they Indian state or its armed forces.

The other day was watching the Interview of Pakistan CG to UK being interviewed by an Indian Anchor, it seemed as the anchor will jump up to the screen and come out the other side and take a bite at the CG & would says YYYUUUUMMMMYYYYYYY.
 
Yeah Pakistan media is obsessed, but not to the degree or level the Indian Media is. To be speaking on a neutral side, the hate & war mongering which Indian media shows whenever something goes wrong, is in no way matched on the Pakistani Side.

I have never ever seen anything in Pakistani media on the level as the Indian Media shows. The aggressiveness the Indian media reporters show, the way they ask questions & do their analysis, it seems as if they are more eager & willing to start the war then they Indian state or its armed forces.

The other day was watching the Interview of Pakistan CG to UK being interviewed by an Indian Anchor, it seemed as the anchor will jump up to the screen and come out the other side and take a bite at the CG & would says YYYUUUUMMMMYYYYYYY.


Good you agree..that both sides are obsessed....may be India reporters go overboard....at times they do look eager to rip open the interviewee....:rofl::rofl:
 
Blueoval let me post something for you. I think you can read hindi text.
Indian Muslims celebrate Pakistan's victory in cricket - General | hindujagruti.org


Isnt it just nice how the manufactured reports from rabid Hindu right wing press like HinduGujarati is deemed so credible. Have you read the articles about Pakistan? You will realise the gutter quality of this newspaper then.

These newspapers publish false stories without any evidence. Its a recent phenomenon because now there is a global tendency to link muslims to terrorism. And now unfortunately Pakistan is synonymous to terrorism for some and naturally these false reports are part of that creating a bogey monster for public consumption.
Check this article out on how false reports are filed about Indian muslims raising Pakistani flags when there are none, just to create insecurity and fear among Hindus. The report is based on a report by Colum 9 activist group in Karnataka. So Im sure you may find false "news reports".
Muslim ?Terrorists? Manufactured by the Media | TwoCircles.net

Forget about Assam and Gujarat, even in Kashmir people dont raise Pakistani flags unless they are paid agents of Geelani. The main sepratist group JKLF and its factions has its own flag which they use for demonstrating for Independace (from both Indian AND Pakistan). thats the ground reality. If you see a youtube clips of Kashmiris chanting Azaadi and waving Pakistani flags, then its most likely an organised rally in Mirpur. A clue that my Kashmiri friend gave to me was most of these youtube clips have people wearing shalwar kameez in the typical punjabi style whcih is what Mirpuris wear. Actual Kashmiris would usually be wearing pherans.
 
I consider the article as an honest apporach of the situation, The author is not BLAMING PAKISTAN for the issues, but the flawed theory of partition that has resulted in two nation where people hate each other, two sections within those two nations who distrusts each other. No matter how the situation have improved over the years, i don't think no one can deny there did exist distrust among different sections within the two countires, and there still exists hate and distrust among the two nations.

If there was no partition, the hate between two nations would have been seized to exist, muslims in india would have been a formidable force, and there wouldnt have been any REASONS to hate our doubt indian muslims. Yes ofcourse the religious fanatics available in our countries would have been enought to create some problems, but at the same time, the moderate secular people would have been far outnumbered this stuipds.

So now we are in a position where we cannot reverse back what happened, we have grown into two distinct countries. Only think we can do is, be informed and get a global perspective so that we have more of logic based upon the principles and benefits of peaceful coexistence and less of hate which is based on obvious mis, little or one sided information.
 
And guys please stop saying my evil is less than your evil..!!! It sounds stupid when people say that train with dead bodies from india to pakistan had more dead bodies than the train from pakistan to india. :lol: That is why i am saying try to learn and get a much larger perspective, and if the debate is to gain one upman ship then its not going to end, coz morally we are not in a position to project ourselves as the custodians of Peace and morality.
 
I agree that the article title is provacative, and two points are valid i.e. reagrding Muhajirs and Terrorism
First of all, Muhajirs from Indian side of Punjab arn't considered as Muhajirs practically speaking. We are talking of people mainly from UP and Bihar who were the real minds behind Pakistan.

If Muhajirs had been treated so nicely from the beginning, there would be no need to form MQM, and no need to have a false Jinnahpur led operation. Pakistan would have accepted the Biharis who were stranded in Bangladesh as its own citizens, which it has'nt done even till today. It has not recognised even those Bihari muslims who somehow made it to Pakistan.
Home - Stranded Pakistanis, Biharis, Stateless in Bangladesh and Pakistan
Sure I agree there maybe some success stories. But what Im saying is from my personal experiences as well. Its not that they dont want to be Pakistani, but they are a minority in Pakistan and have all the associated problems with it.

And just to clarify, millions died during parition BECAUSE of it, not FOR it. People killed their neighbours BECAUSE partition happened. Not because they WANTED partition. They were forced to move. Subtle but an important difference. Infact many people were not killed, but died because of exhaustion and starvation to their journey on the other side of the border!
Ofcourse this was confined mainly to the Punjab province which was very bloody. This comprises about 40% of present day Pakistan so obviously the scar runs deep because of its enormous clout in government. On the other hand in India its abour 4-5% and although the pain is felt, it didnt affect India as much as it did Pakistan in the long run.
So saying that the partition happened because millions were killed in the partion and thuis we can't live with such people is a circular argument which is invalid.

Fact of the matter is that despite continuous provocations from Pakistan to "save" muslims and later the "sikhs", the Hindu majority in India has not thrown us or members of other minorities out of Civil Services, Armed Forces, the judiciary, trade, commerce, business and industry. There are Muslim Ministers in the Union and State cabinets, Muslim Governors, Muslim Ambassadors, representing India in foreign countries, Muslim members in Parliament and state legislatures, Muslim judges serving on the Supreme Court and High Courts, high-ranking officers in the Armed Forces and the Civil services, including the police. Muslim scientists in Defence and Space Agencies. Muslims have large landed estates, run big business and commercial houses in various parts of the country and have their shares in industrial production and enterprise in export and import trade. Our famous sacred shrines and mosques, world renowned centres of Islamic learning and places of cultural interest in India. All the great cultural contributions of the Mughals, Nizams and other muslim rulers of India are in India and are given due protection as historical monuments.

Not that our lot is certainly happy, that we are living in Jannat and we have NO problems. I wish some of the state Governments and politcal parties showed a little greater concern to us in the field of education and employment. And certainly do a lot more to prevent outbreak of communal violence and check factors that lead to it. Mainly things like false reporting and rumor mongering in papers like Hinudgujarati and partiality of low level police officers and constables.

Still under the law of the land, our religious and cultural life is protected and we are sharing in the opportunities open to all citizens to ensure progress for the people of this country. The civil society and judiciary has done a commendable job to fight communalism and ensure social harmony. The Babri Masjid and Gujarat riots are a blot most definitely. But we along with the mainstream civil society can and are fighting this. Wether it be taking up cases against Gujarat government or cooperating with the sants and sadhus in Ayodhya.

Although I understand that some Pakistanis dont want anything to do with India including Indian muslims. There is a large section of Pakistanis who want just that. The problem is over the past few decades with groups like LeT, Hizb e.t.c supported covertly by intelligence and army have been espousing ideology of "saving" Indian muslims. This has been extended by some cult personalities like ZH to include saving all minorities from "brahmin" domination. If these people can just leave us alone and not "save" us then things would be fine.

Most recently you had the 26/11 attackers coming all the way to mumbai and claiming they are from "Deccan" and claiming to fight for Indian muslims. Why would these Pakistanis attempt to do that? Isn't that blatant interference in our affairs? This is just one example. Then who is to blame for this if not Pakistan. Fine, the average pakistani doesnt approve of things like the mumbai attacks. But there is a large chunk of the pakistani population who are stuck in fantasies and selfish interpretations of the "Ghazwa-e-hind" and some vague couplets of some shah waliullah.

Until Pakistan stops this false concern for Indian muslims, it will be one of the reasons for their problems. Case in point is looking up reports from papers like Hindu Gujarati and youtube clips to "proove" that Indian muslims waive Pakistani flags which was never shown by mainstream media. Ofcourse you can conveniently ignore buning of the same flags to protest against Pakistani most recently in Mumbai.

Ofcourse its not the average Pakistani who can do anything about it even if they wanted to. There are elements in the military establishment in conjuction with extremist organisation who don't mind scapegoating and killing muslims in India wether they be in Kashmir or Mumbai to get some sort of statisfaction.

We have a lot of other problems regarding our education and employment, which I don't think need to blamed on Pakistan. MJ Akbar is wrong in that. Insecurity among muslims as well (although partly related to terrorism) is an internal problem that India has to tackle and Indian muslims have to come out of their comfort zones to remove misunderstandings like they have done in UK and US. There have already been some of these sort of steps taken although media should be roped in to give more widespread coverage and it should be a continuos instead of a one off process. On the other hand, Hindu groups led by sadhus and sankacharyas have also come forward in this regard. But still the GoI has the most important role to improve this situation and thanks to democratic institutions in India, Im optimistic we can achieve this.

The only way forward is to strengthen democratic institutions in Pakistan and make so strong that they can then direct the foreign policy with regard to India as well. India and Pakistan are seperate countries and we are not going to go back for a merger even if the partition theory is accepted as false by everyone. The majority of people on both sides want peace but if elected representaties dont have the power to deliver that, and we have "autonomous" groups back stabbing the peace process, we will keep having this problem.
 
I say again that there were problems between in the communities in Pakistan. But by and large the Muhajir community in Pakistan is relatively better of than average Pakistani. The reason being that most of the people that came from india were very well educated and took to the building up of Pakistan with great fervour.
Yes there are muslims in india that are rich but how many of them became rich or how many of them started factories after partition. Most of the Muhajirs in Pakistan lifted themselves with hard work and dedication to their new found country. We worked hard for what we have achieved.
I have family in india. i have never met them, as for you saying that the muslims in Pakistan care to what happens to muslims in india is fairly exaggerated trust me most of us dont care. Your parents and grand parents choose to live in india. That is great and i hope you have a great life but please dont come here and give us Muhajirs lectures about how we have been discriminated and treated badly we honestly dont care.
The MQM was needed because politicians in were not representing our communities feelings that is as far as i am concerned a democratic move and now i think the community is much better of. The jinnahpur situation has been proven to be false we never wanted independence from Pakistan after all we gave so much up to come to this land.
As far as i am concerned the creation of Pakistan was a great idea and if people in india think other wise i really dont give a hoot
 
Kidwai sahib.. tread carefully.. you might end up with another communal riot in the forum. :D
The Jinnahpur case proves exactly how much love the leaders of the three strongest provinces actually have for the Mohajirs. And exactly how much the elite in the three provinces apart from the Balochi's have tried to undermine Mohajirs.Shows the true sincerity the leaders of these provinces have towards Pakistan.
A portion of that blame also lies with the Mohajir generation born in Pakistan, They should have accepted their identity as part of the province. I for one advocate any one born in Karachi to learn Sindhi if it is required. A person whose grandfather is from UP but he was born in Karachi is a Sindhi. Not a Mohajir. He did not migrate, his birth place is Pakistan and the province of Sindh.
This does not require him to abandon his roots, but to remain aloof from his land is also a fallacy. However even efforts in adjusting have been met with skepticism and bigotry.
When was the last time one heard the Khans of India touted as Mohajirs?? or Urdu Speakers..and let down.
Pakistan was not born a problem, but orphaned and raised as one.
 
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I agree santro.The people in Lahore were very anti Government in those days due to Operation Blue Fox.
 
I never said that all Pakistanis or most Pakistanis care about Indian muslims. I was pointing out to groups like LeT e.t.c and people like ZH would want the Pakistani public to believe that we have to "save" Indian muslims. And ofcourse, lets be honest, its not because they have any "humanitarian" reasons for this "concern". But its is precisely this segment of Pakistani population and include elements in the Pakistani intelligence and Army that are the problem. If Pakistanis like the mumbai attackers are coming to India and claiming tofight on behalf of Indian muslims( and killing them as well in the process!), there is disconnect somewhere with popular Pakistani opinion. Only Pakistan can do something about this.

Like I said, sure there are many success stories for Muhajirs who have settled down. And there are thousands of muslim owned businesses, factories and software houses run and managed by muslims after the partition in India as well. And I agree with kidwaibhai, on the lecturing part, but the point is Pakistanis don't have the right to espouse "concern" about Indian muslims either. Particularly when they don't know any facts about Indian muslims and tend to embrace right wing Hindutva leaders as their vision of India.

Infact, these extremist organisations in Pakistan and India are two sides of the same coin
 
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I think the most powerful force for shaping public opinion, and promoting national unity, is the media. The government can only make laws; it cannot change people's minds and prejudices. Only the media and school/community leaders can do that. That is why the American media is full of positive images of African-Americans and Hispanics. Almost every American TV program has a reference to Jews or Jewish culture, to make it second nature. The younger generation there is much less race conscious than their parents.

For those familiar with American media, most Indian media is closer to Fox News than to PBS or NPR. I think the Indian media can do a lot more to showcase Muslim culture as an integral part of India.

Pakistan has it's own internal ethnic problems even after 60+ years. The main political parties like MQM, PPP and PML-N thrive on ethnic divisions. They are pure power-play, primarily ethnic parties devoid of a national vision or agenda. I myself am neither Sindhi, Punjabi, Pashtun, Balochi or Muhajir, so I don't have a bias for or against any group or party.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, Pakistani media has done an abysmal job in promoting national unity and national pride amongst Pakistanis. I can't blame the Pakistani pubic school system because, for all practical purposes, it is nonexistant.
 

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