Pakistan suffers reverses in offensive against militants

[fatman17]

You said you served the Army and resigned in protest against Zia. If you really served the Army, you are doing great disservice to your former Uniform with such views.

this dosnt deserve a reply from my side as u know nothing abt the army!

 

[fatman17]

^^^pretty lovey dovely thread this - wanting to get into the conflict-zone!

 

[fatman17]

The best get the grit of battle under their fingernails and the smell of cordite in their nostrils. Will the best be given a chance to do so by the P.A.?

sure go ask David Ignatius or Jason Burke and many others and remember to ask nicely!- did a super job of reporting!

No lack of guys and women willing to do that in the west that I've seen but then your army doesn't "give 2 hoots to what the western media says and writes about them..."

thats correct!

And Pakistani newpapers don't? If so, does their news have to be "hot" too? I bet "hot" to a Pakistani editor right now is news wrapped in the nat'l flag and nothing but.

unfortunately not - they are shamelessly against the army!

Anyway, not to digress but you could use some REAL reporters downrange with your troops. Good, bad, or indifferent, if your troops are on their game they can't help but look good even when the going is sh!tty.

so the only REAL reporters are from the west??
the troops are in the game and the goin is good! - you guys just cant stomach that!

 

[Awesome]

Arent we jumping the gun with gains and losses on the 6th day of the operation? The Taliban have been there for over 6 years, don't expect results in 6 days.

Moreover, certain mediapersons are Taliban sympathizers and will be glorifying and exaggerating all of their tiny wins.

 

[Elmo]

S-2 is really excited about going in... one hasn't seen him exhibit such sprightliness in a long time (may be it's time you made peace with the female with the "J" in Peshawar and got her to smuggle you in )

As for what the on-ground situation is, anyone's guess is as good as another's. It's a wait and watch game. And yes, a bit of reading ISPR statements as well.

 

[kidwaibhai]

i think we should allow S-2 to go to waziristan. it would be a defence.pk exclusive . will do wonders for the forum.
Go S-2 Go !!!!!

 

[kidwaibhai]

Footage from the Battle Zone

 

[S-2]

"the troops are in the game and the goin is good! - you guys just cant stomach that!"

You'll never find me wishing anything but the best for those troops. Please don't ever mistake my feelings about soldiers doing what their country demands of them. Any country. Their jobs are hard enough as it is.

Whether they're in the game or not is irrelevant. Nobody can independantly confirm such. That's an issue from my perspective. BTW, the best news often comes from a doubting Thomas whose pre-conceived views are changed by what they actually witness.

"...so the only REAL reporters are from the west??"

I didn't say that so I'd appreciate if my good bud wouldn't insinuate such. OTOH, I DID say there'd be any number of western reporters who'd jump at the chance to do so.

I say so having seen their work in Afghanistan. Martin Smith, Graeme Smith, Richard Engel, Elizabeth Rubin, Sebastian Junger, and C.J. Shivers have all done great work without becoming mouthpieces FOR or AGAINST our troops. Just reporting what they see and what our guys say. They're qualified.

I'm sure you've reporters that are qualified also. I won't ask where they are as it's clear that neither they nor western reporters are being permitted any access to the battlefield.

OTOH, it seems it's YOU that has problems with your media if I understand this correctly-

"...they are shamelessly against the army!"

Now maybe you simply meant their editors, maybe you meant everybody associated with your indigenous news media. I don't know as you didn't elaborate.

So I'd appreciate if you'd save your tetchiness for the ISPR and others who've determined in their wisdom to muzzle the press by restricting access until it's "dog n' pony showtime". I saw it in Bajaur and I saw it again during SWAT.

No embeds with the troops as the battle is fought. Bajaur stands out. CBS and al jazerra got in very late. Al Jazerra, though, picked up some stuff even then that I don't think the P.A. was too happy about and that's been that.

Am I wrong in any of my comments?

 

[fatman17]

"the troops are in the game and the goin is good! - you guys just cant stomach that!"

You'll never find me wishing anything but the best for those troops. Please don't ever mistake my feelings about soldiers doing what their country demands of them. Any country. Their jobs are hard enough as it is.

Whether they're in the game or not is irrelevant. Nobody can independantly confirm such. That's an issue from my perspective. BTW, the best news often comes from a doubting Thomas whose pre-conceived views are changed by what they actually witness.

"...so the only REAL reporters are from the west??"

I didn't say that so I'd appreciate if my good bud wouldn't insinuate such. OTOH, I DID say there'd be any number of western reporters who'd jump at the chance to do so.

I say so having seen their work in Afghanistan. Martin Smith, Graeme Smith, Richard Engel, Elizabeth Rubin, Sebastian Junger, and C.J. Shivers have all done great work without becoming mouthpieces FOR or AGAINST our troops. Just reporting what they see and what our guys say. They're qualified.

I'm sure you've reporters that are qualified also. I won't ask where they are as it's clear that neither they nor western reporters are being permitted any access to the battlefield.

OTOH, it seems it's YOU that has problems with your media if I understand this correctly-

"...they are shamelessly against the army!"

Now maybe you simply meant their editors, maybe you meant everybody associated with your indigenous news media. I don't know as you didn't elaborate.

So I'd appreciate if you'd save your tetchiness for the ISPR and others who've determined in their wisdom to muzzle the press by restricting access until it's "dog n' pony showtime". I saw it in Bajaur and I saw it again during SWAT.

No embeds with the troops as the battle is fought. Bajaur stands out. CBS and al jazerra got in very late. Al Jazerra, though, picked up some stuff even then that I don't think the P.A. was too happy about and that's been that.

Am I wrong in any of my comments?

you! - Never!

 

[S-2]

"you! - Never!"

I'm serious as I'm often wrong. Am I here? What harm in your best (or OUR best, for that matter) being with your troops and reporting what they see?

Please explain?

 

[fatman17]

"you! - Never!"

I'm serious as I'm often wrong. Am I here? What harm in your best (or OUR best, for that matter) being with your troops and reporting what they see?

Please explain?

none what-so-ever except in general the "perception" is to pick the negatives and ignore the positives - a balanced approach (critique) serves both sides. repeating the past adnausem when things may have turned the corner for the better.

therefore i can understand their reservations.

 

[S-2]

"...i can understand their reservations."

We had the same prior to DESERT STORM. Worked out well, though, and haven't looked back. Had to be some sh!tty reporters in the bunch but don't recall any big stinks and it's now almost de reigeur.

There's an interesting psychology that the reporter buys into-almost a "foxhole" mentality. If truly embedded with the troops he has to live with his reporting and that tempers him. Plus he's exposed to the simple humanity of soldiers watching out for soldiers...

...and him/her. Tough to sh!t on people that you're close to daily especially when you see and live with their suffering and witness up close and personal their grief when a bud is KIA or wounded.

Has a tendency to almost turn them into advocates. In short, they become unknowingly co-opted.

 

[All-Green]

The likes of Hamid Mir will always be against our Army.
The Terrorists have a lot to offer to guys like him in way of stories and spicy insider statements...and god knows what else...so you will never see him condemning any militant taking up arms and killing innocents in the land of the pure.
PA would never offer him anything except their gratitude...which he does not need since it is not that much dazzling...as opposed to the tacit approval of the great warriors that are the TTP.
We can never see these guys change until their own are killed by those whom they approve...
That is how he got to Osama as well, after all the terrorists love their media time.

Was quite sad that our media accessed the area where TTP were keeping 4 captured SSG recon team members and then humiliated them via searching (read retarded) questions about how they can be soldiers without Army cut...still they did not act as eyes and ears of the state...
I recall those 4 soldiers with fondest memory...their confidence and defiance showed me what our brothers are made of.

I saw a program on Swat whereby Hamid Mir only focused on the few buildings hit by a tank shell and implied that as careless collateral...it was folly of his cameraman who by mistake also showed a concrete reinforced firing position of the TTP and the damage dealt from that position to where the Army was taking cover, there was a destroyed tank as well...
Told me all there is to know about Hamid Mir's intent...

Yes i think fatman17 has a reason to be pi**ed, just like me.

Still S-2, you have a point...a very valid one indeed and one that can add to the revival of PA as the pride of its nation and can result in the much needed trust which some are not willing to put into the hands of current PPP regime...
it will serve as a stark reminder to those who think that this is all a game by the PA...
I guess we all have somethings to agree on...thank god for that...

It will be difficult but i am sure we can find some patriotic, adventurous and gutsy reporters willing to accompany the PA, those who are not mouthpieces of TTP and do not need the spicy TTP phone calls can at least use this opportunity both as a passion and for personal growth...
There is nothing quite like a civilian willing to stand by his soldier brothers...such people are quite the heroes to their nation...and respected a lot.

 

[kursed]

If not Hamid Mir, I believe Talat Hussain should be up to the task. When it comes to journalistic integrity, he's miles ahead of Hamid Mir.

 

[S-2]

"It will be difficult but i am sure we can find some patriotic, adventurous and gutsy reporters willing to accompany the PA..."

You're still not getting it. How about professional, adventurous, and gutsy instead? If you send governmental mouthpieces downrange it just loses credibility.

Send tough, relatively young but experienced reporters who know how to maintain objectivity and not be a mouthpiece for either side.

If you're troops are well-grounded and combat operations are ethically sound, it'll come out and do so in a manner that will be absent the jingoistic patriotism that causes readers to roll their eyes. Plus reporters (at least ours) almost always seem sucked in by the simple honesty and dignity by which young soldiers carry themselves.

It's never our big, fat generals that win the day in any story. It's the TROOPS, man. They always get under your skin...

...in a GOOD way.

God love 'em all. Why do you think that a general's fondest memory nine times out of ten is about when he was a lieutenant or young captain WITH THE TROOPS.

Ain't nothing like it and reporters get sucked in too. Can't help themselves. Trust your men and the reporters can't find fault if they're pros and aren't bringing some axe to grind.

My fear is that your country lacks enough of those professional reporters. Why do I fear such? Because YOU GUYS seem to fear it.