Pakistan spends 7 times more on arms than on schools

[SMC]

You want exclude defence pensions for pakistan..go ahead exclude Rs 70 Billion from it ..see what result you come up with.

I come up with a result of 3.6% of GDP going toward defence. 0.6% difference from yours. It's not 70 billion btw.

You are the one making a claim..burden of proof lies on you.

To start off, the article itself is flawed. You're coming up with a figure of 0.6% of GDP going toward education based on the 4.2% you've come up with on your own. Doing an online search shows that Pakistan spends 2% of GDP on education.

In fact, I don't even know where this 7x figure is coming from, considering Pakistan uses 3.6% of its GDP on defence and 2% on education. That's not even twice as much. There are no numbers posted regarding how this 7x figure has been evaluated.

 

[ares]

I come up with a result of 3.6% of GDP going toward defence. 0.6% difference from yours. It's not 70 billion btw.

It is 72 billion and Pakistan's GDP at the end of 2010 was $177.9 Billion
But middle of the yr, when your union budget came up(middle of the yr)..it was only $172 Billion..so make your calculation from there.

To start off, the article itself is flawed. You're coming up with a figure of 0.6% of GDP going toward education based on the 4.2% you've come up with on your own. Doing an online search shows that Pakistan spends 2% of GDP on education.

In fact, I don't even know where this 7x figure is coming from, considering Pakistan uses 3.6% of its GDP on defence and 2% on education. That's not even twice as much. There are no numbers posted regarding how this 7x figure has been evaluated.

Pakistan does not spend 2 % of GDP on education alone ..you need to check your sources again.

 

[SMC]

It is 72 billion and Pakistan's GDP at the end of 2010 was $177.9 Billion

But middle of the yr, when your union budget came up(middle of the yr)..it was only $172 Billion..so make your calculation from there.

Ahh but it was 175 billion, not 172. Remember that the GDP increase the whole year, not just the last 6 months. Ok, you wanna make it 175 billion, that brings it to 3.7%. An incredible 0.1% increase.

Pakistan does not spend 2 % of GDP on education alone ..you need to check your sources again.

Any source I am getting is giving figure anywhere from 1.8% to 2.9%. I've searched extensively on the web and 0.6% seems a big fat lie. What else is that money that the government says is being spent on education is secretly being spent on something else?

 

[SMC]

UN gives figure of 2.7% of GDP going toward education for year 2009. UNdata | record view | Public expenditure on education as % of GDP

With 3.7% of GDP going toward defence, how is this 7x figure being obtained? Is there any breakdown of figures? What figures are being used to obtain this 7x figure?

 

[ares]

Ahh but it was 175 billion, not 172. Remember that the GDP increase the whole year, not just the last 6 months. Ok, you wanna make it 175 billion, that brings it to 3.7%. An incredible 0.1% increase.

No it will be 172 Billion ..I gave you the source too

Pakistan' GDP(at the end of 2009) = $ 166.515 Billion
Pakistan's GDP (at the end of 2010) = $177.91 Billion

Pakistan's GDP in June 2010( when union budget comes up) ..taking average of both ..we get $172 Billion
Pakistan GDP at current prices in US dollars

Now go ahead re calculate.

Any source I am getting is giving figure anywhere from 1.8% to 2.9%. I've searched extensively on the web and 0.6% seems a big fat lie. What else is that money that the government says is being spent on education is secretly being spent on something else.

So what does that make your defence budget reach then?
Pakistan health expenditure + education expenditure ..does not even cross 2% of GDP.

 

[SMC]

No it will be 172 Billion ..I gave you the source too

Pakistan' GDP(at the end of 2009) = $ 166.515 Billion
Pakistan's GDP (at the end of 2010) = $177.91 Billion

Pakistan's GDP in June 2010( when union budget comes up) ..taking average of both ..we get $172 Billion
Pakistan GDP at current prices in US dollars

Now go ahead re calculate.

We had growth of 3% in 2010. For us to increase GDP by 12B we would need a growth rate of over 6%. The GDP as of now is around 178 billion but I am guessing that the figure for 2009 is incorrect.

So what does that make your defence budget reach then?
Pakistan health expenditure + education expenditure ..does not even cross 2% of GDP.

Where are you coming up with these figures? I just gave UN as my source. Health expenditure is around the same figure of 2.7%. Health expenditure; total (% of GDP) in Pakistan

2.0% from UN. http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?q=Gross+Domestic+Product&d=WHO&f=MEASURE_CODE:WHS7_143

 

[Leader]

ISPR has given a shut up call today to those opposing army's budget,

 

[SMC]

So can the thread title be considered bogus, since

UN gives figure of 2.7% of GDP going toward education for year 2009. UNdata | record view | Public expenditure on education as % of GDP

With 3.7% of GDP going toward defence, how is this 7x figure being obtained? Is there any breakdown of figures? What figures are being used to obtain this 7x figure?

 

[ares]

We had growth of 3% in 2010. For us to get from increase GDP by 12B we would need a growth rate of over 6%. The GDP as of now is around 178 billion but I am guessing that the figure for 2009 is incorrect.

As usual you are in hurry to crucify all proven figures based on your incomplete knowledge.

Not only an economy grows vertically but also inflates horizontally.
What your are quoting is nominal GDP growth and applying it and hoping to get match real GDP figures.
What you need is real GDP growth rate..considering your economy inflated at an average 12-15% last yr minus the saving..you will get the above figures

Now you can recalculate your defence exp.

Where are you coming up with these figures? I just gave UN as my source. Health expenditure is around the same figure of 2.7%. Health expenditure; total (% of GDP) in Pakistan

Your UN source is 2 yrs old and has the figures 2008 budget and had you researched enough you would found the source for "expenditure on education and health combined does not cross 2% of GDP.

 

[SMC]

A usual you are in hurry to crucify all proven figures based on your incomplete knowledge.

No only an economy grows vertically but also inflates horizontally.
What your are quoting is nominal GDP growth and applying it and hoping to get match real GDP figures.
What you need is real GDP growth rate..considering your economy inflated at an average 12-15% last yr minus the saving..you will get the above figures

Now you can recalculate your defence exp.

All proven figures? Let's see. No source for 0.6% figure. No source provided for most figures in fact.

I am assuming that this GDP figure is controlled for inflation as they normally are.

With 172 billion it goes up to 3.8%. Congrats, you manage to bring it up by 0.2%! Still quite a distance away from your magical 4.2% figure.

Your UN source is 2 yrs old and has the figures 2008 budget and had you researched enough you would found the source for "expenditure on education and health combined does not cross 2% of GDP.

You need to provide the source since you're making the assertion.

And are you serious? Combined health and education expenditure combined was 4.7% in 2008, it dropped 2.7% in 2 years? 2009 figures for education as % of GDP show 2.7%. How much did it drop in one year, lol? Do you want to continue making a buffoon out of yourself?

Even the 2010 articles I am coming across are giving a figure of anywhere from 2% to 2.8%.

 

[SMC]

This is how lies are spread about our country. You need to make sure you do not believe every single thing you see on the internet. The unfortunate part is that some of our own countrymen are happy to buy these lies for their own personal reasons. With the worst possible figures you can find, we spend slightly less than twice as much on defence as we do on education, and with better figure we spend around 1.3x as much on defence as on education. Yes, we need to improve our education standards and infrastructure, but let's not be ridiculous and start believing such ridiculous figures as in the thread title. A worst case of twice as much is nowhere near as bad as seven times as much.

 

[ares]

All proven figures? Let's see. No source for 0.6% figure. No source provided for most figures in fact.

I am assuming that this GDP figure is controlled for inflation as they normally are.

With 172 billion it goes up to 3.8%. Congrats, you manage to bring it up by 0.2%! Still quite a distance away from your magical 4.2% figure.

No it will above 4%.

Let see your total expenditure defence was 675 Billion +110 Billion(mid yr increase) - 72 Billion(for pensions) - 127 Billion(payed by USA under CSF) = 586 billion= $6.9 Billion.

Your GDP = $172 billion

Defence exp as % of GDP= 4.01% (not very far from my original calculation

You need to provide the source since you're making the assertion.

And are you serious? Combined health and education expenditure combined was 4.7% in 2008, it dropped 2.7% in 2 years? 2009 figures for education as % of GDP show 2.7%. How much did it drop in one year, lol? Do you want to continue making an out of yourself?

Your education budget had already dropped to 1.8% of GDP after 2009
NationMaster - Pakistani Education statistics
..infact massive cuts have been made to your health and eduction budget to cut your fiscal deficit.

PS- 0.6% was acheived calculating back words from your defence budget.
If you increase the education figures your.. defense figures will rise 7 folds.

 

[ares]

This is how lies are spread about our country. You need to make sure you do not believe every single thing you see on the internet. The unfortunate part is that some of our own countrymen are happy to buy these lies for their own personal reasons. With the worst possible figures you can find, we spend slightly less than twice as much on defence as we do on education, and with better figure we spend around 1.3x as much on defence as on education. Yes, we need to improve our education standards and infrastructure, but let's not be ridiculous and start believing such ridiculous figures as in the thread title. A worst case of twice as much is nowhere near as bad as seven times as much.

You need to rely less on jingoism and more on facts

 

[SMC]

No it will above 4%.

Let see your total expenditure defence was 675 Billion +110 Billion(mid yr increase) - 72 Billion(for pensions) - 127 Billion(payed by USA under CSF) = 586 billion= $6.9 Billion.

Your GDP = $172 billion

Defence exp as % of GDP= 4.01% (not very far from my original calculation

Incorrect computation.

Let's start from the base defence expenditure. That's 442 billion. Add the 110 billion. That's 552 billion.

Btw I am already being kind in adding 110 billion, because that's effectively a forced increase on us from US due to WoT.

Now it's 3.8%.

Your education budget had already dropped to 1.8% of GDP after 2009
NationMaster - Pakistani Education statistics
..infact massive cuts have been made to your health and eduction budget to cut your fiscal deficit.

You said combined health and education is less than 2.0%. So what happened to that?

Clearly these statistics are incorrect. Let me show you why. They're quoting UN numbers for their statistics. Same website that I am using. But UN numbers for 2009 show 2.7% of GDP toward education. In fact NationMaster may have outdated statistics from year 2000, because UN's numbers for 2000 show 1.8% toward GDP. Btw, who is a more reliable source? Especially for these kinds of purposes?

Now as for the cuts you're talking about, if you can come up with a source that show actual figures, that'd be great.

Nevertheless, 1.8% or 2.7%, that thread title is incorrect.

---------- Post added at 12:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 AM ----------

You need to rely less on jingoism and more on facts

I am relying only on facts here. Perhaps you missed that.

 

[SMC]

I can't believe what a big fat lie ares made regarding 0.6% being used toward education and not one single person caught it. Truly remarkable.