Pakistan showing interest in J-16?

[Syed_Adeel]

Dear whether PAF goes for J16 or not is another matter but considering current scenario PAF is in dire need of a high tech jet which can effectively counter Indian Medium to heavy class fighter as well as may perform deep penetration missions. PAF F16 are good for air defense only can't be used for bombing missions further if compared to Rafael and new single engine jet India going to induct soon they will not be competitive enough. Further it is almost impossible to for Pak to get V upgrades for F16s both politically and cost wise.
PAF Mirages can only be used for secondary roles or as gap fillers can't penetrate effectively as the could do in the past as now Indian's have upgraded their Air defense from Low to high altitude SAMS supported by AESA/PESA latest radars.

JF17 block III will be good enough for Air defense roles but may face limitations regarding operational range and payloads.
J31 may also take further time for development and shall be available in small batches.

Further JF17 block III and J31 are medium to long term options meanwhile we require a capable fighter though in limited numbers currently to counter not only Indian threat but we may also face such threats form Afghan side also though rare chances. Further if Arab crises is expanded then Pak can't keep it away for long.

Well f16s can perform a bombing missions as well up to quite good ranges. although SOW weapons are not available but they are available for JFT and Mirages.

My point is that of PAF pursue for J16 then J31 or any 4.5 gen aircraft then 5th gen program will be delayed further more.

 

[Sanchez]

Pakistan could learn from Indians to “rent” J-20s or J-16s because of budget size.

 

[BetterPakistan]

That is J-15 not J-16. J-16 was initially designed to be bomber but now they have developed new version of J-16 which according to China is similar to E-18 Growler.


Our relations with Russia are improving massively so won't be surprised if Russia allows China to go ahead with the sale.

Is Pakistan trying/wishing to buy J-16 because Russia isn't selling Su-35 to Pakistan? I checked J-16 and I felt its more like Su-30.

 

[CHI RULES]

Well f16s can perform a bombing missions as well up to quite good ranges. although SOW weapons are not available but they are available for JFT and Mirages.

My point is that of PAF pursue for J16 then J31 or any 4.5 gen aircraft then 5th gen program will be delayed further more.

J31 is a 5th gen platform may be available in 4-5 years for initial supply but we require a jet for our current needs we should not make Rafel a benchmark as our JF17 block-III should have all gadgets required to counter Rafael threat but we are forgetting huge current fleet of SU30s and upgraded Mig29 of IAF.
If any 4.5th gen fighter jet inducted now will remain relevant if upgraded continuously. Unfortunately we do not have luxury or finances to upgrade our F16s as per our requirements in future.

Well f16s can perform a bombing missions as well up to quite good ranges. although SOW weapons are not available but they are available for JFT and Mirages.

My point is that of PAF pursue for J16 then J31 or any 4.5 gen aircraft then 5th gen program will be delayed further more.

You have answered my point ur self we do not have required approvals/funds to upgrade our F16s or to install required ground attack ammos on them as per our own defence requirements. Even I have read and it is indicated in many writings that F16s were provided to Pak for defensive role only and not allowed to be used as offensive/ bombing purposes with Indian territory.

J31 is a 5th gen jet and limited induction of any other fighter should delay it's induction.

 

[Michael Corleone]

How do you know there are aero dynamic inefficiencies ? There is hardly any reliable data available on J31 ...

F16 was basically a ground strike aircraft but Pakistanis used it in air superiority role ....

Its multirole hence can be used in any role depandant on need of the user ... For Pakistan it will be primarily for air superiority role or SEAD missions unless we aquire around 100 aircrafts which is difficult ...

Have been following this aircraft before it was even named j-31.... I am not sure of any changes.... but with its first papers... it's lacking behind in almost everything and isn't any attractive than jf -17... unless all the problems have been solved....

You can see in its flight video that it's always on afterburner during maneuvers and the pilot had hard time keeping the nose up... which add in

 

[CriticalThought]

Have you seen a the thread title I have put lot of question mark on this. This page who ever is running has many times posted really authentic news and many times totally false news so I want some one to confirm it or deny it specially some MOD or man like @Windjammer

If you use an unbiased coin to make predictions about sets having low cardinality and a uniform probability distribution, your predictions will be correct 50% of the time. It doesnt reflect your knowledge, it reflects your ability to choose the right sets to make predictions about. That Pakistan Affairs page is a joke and should be treated as such.

EDIT: I should add you won't get 50% from random probability. You would add your own common sense and the 50% is an empirical number not a mathematical one.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Hi,

Thanks for the 'nudge'----we have discussed about a heavy strike for Paf for a long time---.

We know that it is a must---I will leave it at that---.

Just want some people to know---' beware of the ides of march '.

Mastankhan sir its an honour and I am overjoyed to see your post here.
I have been reading your posts since 2006 it's really an honour and pleasure sir

 

[帅的一匹]

Wow! It finally comes! I just lovin it!

Two things.
PAF has operated f6(Chinese mig 19) and A5(Heavily modified f6) which was twin eingine.
What is the logic behind selecting j16 when we are pursuing j31 or any other 5th gen?

J16 is for anti-ship and SEAD. Same concept as Su30 MKK, but more advanced.

It is not about your relations
But the issue here is IPR -- Intellectual property rights violations

J11 / J 15 / J 16 all are based on design of FLANKERS

Add to it the Engine issue -- they are still powered by AL 31

Why would Russia sabotage the sale of SU 30 and SU 35 by allowing
China to export these clones

If they doesn't want China sell J16, they have to sell Su30 or Su35. This is how we play games. Actually J16 is fully indegenous, what Russia can do to stop us? You know we can make a under table agreement with Russia to sell J16 to Pakistan! Here is Pakistan I'm talking about, the closest ally of China. Russia doesn't have choice but to make compromise. This is the reality.

intellcural is not an issue, pakistan has recievd several copies from china inclduing helcopters, palnes, from f-7 to z-9 to current awacs plans.
engine is not an issue, clear reports that its a Chinese engine now

i doubt su 35 was a real thing, doesnt make sense to take such a big risk with russia

china flankers were too expensive to buy and operate, you can buy 3 thunders and operating cost is 3 times less for thunder

issue is cost, air force gets little left over after army takes it shares

PAF need a heavy fighter to strike deep, I mean more range and payload. Non platform in PAF can give a deep strike to India, even carry nuclear missile. j16 can do it. Its strategic asset.

It doesn't need to be many of them, but it can hurt your enemy badly in their hinderland.

 

[The Accountant]

Have been following this aircraft before it was even named j-31.... I am not sure of any changes.... but with its first papers... it's lacking behind in almost everything and isn't any attractive than jf -17... unless all the problems have been solved....

You can see in its flight video that it's always on afterburner during maneuvers and the pilot had hard time keeping the nose up... which add in

I think you are referring to version 1 ... Remember this type of issues are common in technology evaluation ... Its entirely a new design ... First prototyoe always has such problem ...

Check below video specially at 1:27 ... there is no afterburner with completing the loop ... the issue of black smoke is same rd93 engine which is powering jf17 ... it is already the mind of planners that it will be replaced by a new more powerful and efficient wngine ... current engine is for test platform only ... production version will be of chinese origin

 

[Michael Corleone]

I think you are referring to version 1 ... Remember this type of issues are common in technology evaluation ... Its entirely a new design ... First prototyoe always has such problem ...

Check below video specially at 1:27 ... there is no afterburner with completing the loop ... the issue of black smoke is same rd93 engine which is powering jf17 ... it is already the mind of planners that it will be replaced by a new more powerful and efficient wngine ... current engine is for test platform only ... production version will be of chinese origin

what's the rate of turn? can you please tell me? i don't ab0out about that... also i think it needs those powerful engines.... and more prototype to go through... doesn't feel like an agile jet... or maybe the pilot just wasn't displaying it's full potentials

 

[war&peace]

and that's what i have said... if it didn't go through design changes the plane is useless... if you check my first comment...

f-35 with all it's electronic warfare capability engaged now has proven itself.... without those earlier it was a slouch duck open...

fun fact... f22 is not the most maneuverable plane US made... in fact they have sacrificed some maneuverability for stealth

with design refinements... j31 can surely become a potent fighter... however if more efficient engine or larger fuel load without sacrificing weapons load cannot be managed, i don;t see it as "worth it"

China is developing WS13E engine for this and that is reported to have much better performance and smokeless exhaust.. and the results are promising so that will replace that but twin RD93 is not that bad. It is in MiG29s though its upgraded version RD33K has also been developed.

what's the rate of turn? can you please tell me? i don't ab0out about that... also i think it needs those powerful engines.... and more prototype to go through... doesn't feel like an agile jet... or maybe the pilot just wasn't displaying it's full potentials

It still has better P/W ratio than F-35-...just google around

 

[MastanKhan]

Mastankhan sir its an honour and I am overjoyed to see your post here.
I have been reading your posts since 2006 it's really an honour and pleasure sir

Hi,

The need for a heavy strike aircraft in the 8---10000 kg load carrying capability has been there for a long time.

If the realization has hit the Paf at this time---I would say that it is a saving grace---.

But I hope that this good news stays intact.

 

[The Accountant]

what's the rate of turn? can you please tell me? i don't ab0out about that... also i think it needs those powerful engines.... and more prototype to go through... doesn't feel like an agile jet... or maybe the pilot just wasn't displaying it's full potentials

Dont know about exact specs as the same are kept confidential ...

I think the pilot has kept it a low profile as it is still a test platform and requires alot of chnages ... no one is expecting anything near to low rate production in next 4 yers

 

[CriticalThought]

what's the rate of turn? can you please tell me? i don't ab0out about that... also i think it needs those powerful engines.... and more prototype to go through... doesn't feel like an agile jet... or maybe the pilot just wasn't displaying it's full potentials

You don't evaluate a stealth plane by its rate of turn. If rate of turn starts to matter, it had already lost the advantage of stealth.

 

[帅的一匹]

what's the rate of turn? can you please tell me? i don't ab0out about that... also i think it needs those powerful engines.... and more prototype to go through... doesn't feel like an agile jet... or maybe the pilot just wasn't displaying it's full potentials

Lets us don't get ahead of ourself, wait and see. I'm very confident of FC31.

what's the rate of turn? can you please tell me? i don't ab0out about that... also i think it needs those powerful engines.... and more prototype to go through... doesn't feel like an agile jet... or maybe the pilot just wasn't displaying it's full potentials

Lets us don't get ahead of ourself, wait and see. I'm very confident of FC31.

Hi,

The need for a heavy strike aircraft in the 8---10000 kg load carrying capability has been there for a long time.

If the realization has hit the Paf at this time---I would say that it is a saving grace---.

But I hope that this good news stays intact.

I've been waiting for it such a long time.