Pakistan should have attacked India during the Sino-Indian War of 1962

[my2cents]

You will be surprised by the amount of attention given to the communist China by the US back then, because of its geographic location, its involvement in N.Korea and Vietnam. By saying that China was not on the radar you are just displaying a historical inaccuracy.

what I meant was China was feared but not as much as Russia. China did not have nuclear weapons back in 1962.

 

[bornmoron]

Still in the past,,,,,,
We have lot more to do in present,,lets focus in present,,,,

Gade murde ukhad ke kuch fayda nahin hona hai ,,,

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Its true that Pakistan was tied up in CENTO & SEATO back then. However the underlying demand of Nehru was to bring Pakistan {A rouge breakaway province} back to 'Mother India'. Americans were 'against' Pakistan's creation and supported Nehru's demands throughout the 50s, only if he formally allies with the US and fights against the 'communist menace' if needed. The Nehru rejected an alliance with the US, only then the US came to Pakistan and formed the 'Asian pack', made up of Pakistan,Iran,Saudi Arabian dictators to contain the communism.

Pakistan was being pushed time and again to give up ties with China altogether as the US didn't want Pakistani green being painted red. President J.F Kennedy believed that Pakistan being an ideological Muslim state was a natural enemy of 'Godless China'. It didn't turn out to be true, as despite the ideological differences Pakistan reached out to China and formed relations. Having China as an enemy was the last thing we wanted as we were surrounded by India [USSR's ally] , and USSR itself [Just 90 miles away].

I believe attacking India with China in 1962 would have resulted in Kashmir's liberation as we had the manpower to inject in Kashmir from 3 axis,with locals being armed to join the fight, while China would take care of India from the points of entry,this would have resulted in choking Indian forces in Kashmir by denying them a supply line and reinforcements. A joint operation could have lead to destroying Indian ability to send reinforcements into Kashmir. This perhaps was the biggest opportunity missed in Pakistani history in regards to Kashmir liberation. It came back to roost in 1964,when PM Shahstri annexed Kashmir which sparked a war in 1965 anyway, which we had to fight on our own.

See the "hard truth" was that you could do nothing to offend Chacha Sam in order to piggy-back on Uncle Mao then.
Even now its not easy either.; then it was well-nigh impossible. It had little to do with India and everything to do with Chacha Sam's stranglehold on you.

The rest of your submission is just a "flight of fanciful fancy". If you carefully re-read Kuldip Nayyar's account above (of course assuming that you have read it) you will understand that.

 

[me_itsme]

I recalled what Jinnah had said at Law College in Lahore when I had asked him what Pakistan's reaction would be if a third power were to attack India. He had said that his soldiers would fight alongside Indian soldiers. Ayub told foreign powers who wanted him to help India that the fact that Pakistan did not take advantage of India's vulnerability was a form of assistance and a sufficient gesture.

At the end of hostilities, Shastri recalled the Shah's letter and said that had the Pakistani soldiers fought alongside us and 'shed their blood with Indian soldiers', it would have been difficult to say 'No' to Pakistan even if it had asked for Kashmir (Agar wo Kashmir bhi mangte to na karna mushkil hota).


If this had happened. The entire history of the sub-continent would have changed.

 

[Khsaud31]

you should keep this in mind that now Pakistan is much more strong in defence AND the relations with China and U.S.A are good China would definitely act as an ally . apart from the inner attacks from taliban , they would also act as an army giving india a very hard time like the Sino-indian war
AND don't forget we are a nuclear power .
"LONG LIVE PAKISTAN "

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Why didn't Pakistan attack India during the Sino-Indian War of 1962.

Pakistan could have delivered a decisive blow against the Indians and India lacked the ability to fight a two front war.

Instead we appeared to help India fight off China.

A lost opportunity

How Pakistan helped India during 1962 war with China - Rediff.com News

How Pakistan helped India during 1962 war with China
Last updated on: July 6, 2012 19:11 IST

Late Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru told then Defence Minister V K Krishna Menon in 1961 that he had received reliable information that the Chinese would not offer resistance if there was a show of force to make them vacate the check-posts...

As the 1962 war began, the Shah of Iran sent Nehru a copy of letter he had written to Ayub Khan, suggesting that he send his soldiers to fight alongside Indian forces against the 'red menace'...

General P N Thapar had submitted a note to the government when he took over as chief in 1960. In it, he had pointed out that the equipment with the army was in such poor condition and in such short supply that China or Pakistan could easily defeat India...

Veteran journalist and former member of Parliament, Kuldip Nayar has written in length on the wrangling inside the corridors of power in New Delhi in the run up to the war with China, in his latest book titled Beyond the Lines

We reproduce excerpts from the book with his kind permission

After Govind Ballabh Pant's death on 7 March 1961, Lal Bahadur Shastri was appointed home minister. He changed virtually the entire personal staff, the two survivors being the driver, who drove very fast, and I whom Shastri described as that 'lamba presswala who publicised Pantji so much'. In time I became so close to him that he confided to me many political secrets, and I read all his mail.

His secretary, Rajeshwar Prasad, became a friend and would share with me all the information he received. During Pant's time too I would see letters and notes but usually secretly and not openly as was the case with Shastri.

I also felt more comfortable with Shastri and wasn't in awe of him as was the case with Pant. Shastri's simplicity and modesty were in their own way as impressive as Pant's sagacity and maturity. Both represented the best of the Indian independence movement and its traditional values.

They wanted to do all they could to take the country forward, personal interest never so much as crossing their minds. How diminutive in comparison were the leaders of political parties whom I saw from close quarters forty-five years later as a member of the Rajya Sabha.

******

By mid-1961, Chinese border forces had advanced 70 miles west of the Sinkiang-Tibet road from the position they had held in 1958. This meant the occupation of 12,000 squares miles of Indian territory. Krishna Menon told me many years later that nobody in India appreciated the fact that India 'encroached on 4,000 sqm of territory belonging to China'.

The war was, however, preceded by a string of events. I am reconstructing the story after having spoken to General P N Thapar, the then chief of army staff and Defence Minister Krishna Menon. Somewhat peeved by the criticism, (then Prime Minister Jawaharlal) Nehru ordered Thapar to evict the Chinese from the posts they had built within Indian territory.

The army chief was reluctant to do so because he thought it would be like 'disturbing a hornet's nest'. A meeting was held under the chairmanship of Krishna Menon, who was all for action. Thapar argued that the Indian Army did not have the necessary strength, the ratio being six Chinese to one Indian. Menon responded confidently that he had met Chen Yi, the Chinese deputy premier, at Geneva and had been assured that China would never fight India over the border issue.

When I asked Menon specifically whether this information given to me by General Thapar was true, his reply was: 'That toothless old woman; he did not know how to fight a war.'

Thapar had submitted a note to the government when he took over as chief in 1960. In it, he had pointed out that the equipment with the army was in such poor condition and in such short supply that China or Pakistan could easily defeat India. This was in sharp contrast to Nehru's statement, which I heard from the press gallery: 'I can tell the House that at no time since Independence has our defence been in better condition and finer fettle.'

It appeared as if the government was determined to fight the Chinese without reorganising or re-equipping the army. At Menon's meeting, Thapar was supported by only one person, V Vishwanathan, then the additional secretary in the home ministry. He said that if Gen Thapar felt that India was unprepared there was no point in being foolhardy, but Menon was obdurate about attacking China.

Faced with no option other than an immediate military operation, Thapar sought an interview with the prime minister to seek his intervention. A few minutes before his departure for Nehru's house, SS Khera, then cabinet secretary, met him and said: 'General, if I were you, I would not express my fears before Panditji for he might think that you are afraid to fight.'

Thapar's curt reply was that he must tell the prime minister the truth; the rest was for him to decide.

Before Thapar got into his car, Khera once again said that he must realise that if India did not fight, the government would fall. Thapar did not argue further but was more convinced than ever that the decision to resist China was motivated by political considerations.

Thapar repeated to Nehru how the Indian army was unprepared, untrained, and ill-equipped for the operation it was being asked to undertake. (Menon told me before he became defence minister that there was no army worth the name and no equipment worth the mention.)

Nehru said Menon had informed him that India was itself producing a substantial part of the army equipment it required. Thapar emphasized that India was nowhere near the stage of even assembling the weapons required for war. He then mentioned the note he had submitted, complaining about the poor shape of the army and its equipment. Nehru said he had never seen it.

To reassure Thapar, Nehru told him that he had received reliable information that the Chinese would not offer resistance if there was a show of force to make them vacate the check-posts. Thapar knew from where the information had come. Obviously, the government had not taken any note of the Chinese warnings that 'the Indian aggressor must bear full responsibility for the consequences of their crimes'.

The general was still not prepared to take the risk. He asked Nehru to speak to some of the army commanders. Lt Gen. Prodip Sen, commander-in-chief Eastern Army Command, who was in Thapar's room in the defence ministry at that time, was summoned. He supported Thapar and said that the army was far from prepared. Nehru repeated that his information was that the Chinese would not retaliate.

Thapar took heart from this. If that was true then even his unprepared forces might wear the crown of glory. No general can resist the temptation of marching at the head of a winning army, and Thapar was no exception. He began preparing for action. Thapar told me on 29 July 1970: 'Looking back, I think I should have submitted my resignation at that time. I might have saved my country from the humiliation of defeat.'

Shastri took me along when he flew to the Northeast to make an assessment on the ground, as he had been asked to do by Nehru. When we reached Tezpur in Assam, Lt Gen. Harbaksh Singh was in command. B N Kaul, the controversial commander, had gone to Delhi on leave. Hostilities were yet to begin.

Harbaksh Singh explained to us how the Indian forces would do better Lal Bahadur Shastri as Home Minister despite many handicaps. He assured Shastri that it would not be a walkover for the Chinese. Shastri was happy and told me on our return flight that he would request Panditji to let Harbaksh Singh stay on in place of Kaul. However, in the evening we heard on the radio at Calcutta that Kaul was back from leave and had resumed charge.

Menon's specific instructions were not to move a single soldier from the border with Pakistan. India's assessment since Independence had been that it would have to fight Pakistan one day. Detailed plans of 'projected action', if ever it became necessary, had been prepared in the defence ministry and kept ready. The border between China had however been left unprotected because no attack was expected from there.

Even as late as August 1962, a few weeks before the Chinese attack, Menon was talking of Pakistan's preparations against India. In those days, Rajeshwar Dayal, India's high commissioner to Pakistan, was in Delhi. One morning Dayal, as he told me, received a call from the defence ministry for a meeting.

When he reached the ministry, he was ushered into a room where Menon was sitting with the army commanders, including Thapar. Dayal had barely taken his seat when Menon asked him to tell the commanders about the preparations that Pakistan was making along the Indian border.

Before Dayal could reply, Thapar told him in Punjabi, which Menon could not understand, that Dayal should not allow himself to be tricked because the projected danger from Pakistan was part of a larger plan.

Dayal said that he knew nothing about the preparations and that he had found no such sign at the border on his way to Delhi. Menon was annoyed and asked Dayal to send him a report to confirm that there was no evidence of preparations by Pakistan to invade India.

Against this backdrop, Thapar had been reluctant to ask for the withdrawal of any troops from the Pakistan front, but now conditions were different. He wanted a division to be withdrawn from that sector. Nehru immediately conceded to his request.

'Normally, the time given to the defence forces to attack is a fortnight and an attack is timed at the break of daylight,' said Thapar. The Chinese attack came on 20 October, at 5 am in the eastern sector where the sun rose early, and at 7 am in the Ladakh area where daylight was late to arrive.

As the war began, the Shah of Iran sent Nehru a copy of letter he had written to Ayub Khan, suggesting that he send his soldiers to fight alongside Indian forces against the 'red menace'. (I have seen the copy.)

I recalled what Jinnah had said at Law College in Lahore when I had asked him what Pakistan's reaction would be if a third power were to attack India. He had said that his soldiers would fight alongside Indian soldiers. Ayub told foreign powers who wanted him to help India that the fact that Pakistan did not take advantage of India's vulnerability was a form of assistance and a sufficient gesture.

At the end of hostilities, Shastri recalled the Shah's letter and said that had the Pakistani soldiers fought alongside us and 'shed their blood with Indian soldiers', it would have been difficult to say 'No' to Pakistan even if it had asked for Kashmir (Agar wo Kashmir bhi mangte to na karna mushkil hota).

Probably he was right because emotions played a substantial part in our decisions.

At the time of China India conflict, Their leader had signed a treaty with us to not attack them, Now thats according to wikipedia.....

This article further emphases that in all these war Pakistan was nvr an aggressor. Because if we were then we would have done that in 62 itself..... I have always said and say again we had just defended our Country always.

 

[Slayer786]

For me, having friendly relations with China is much more better than India. We had lived with Indians for a 1000 years and always fought each other and killed each other before the British came and did the same. So we could not have lived peacefully with each other at all.
With China, we saw that those people are trustworthy allies who have honor unlike the indians. Thats why we Pakistanis are richer for having friends with China and have not lost anything keeping Indians as our enemies.

 

[freshmint]

For me, having friendly relations with China is much more better than India. We had lived with Indians for a 1000 years and always fought each other and killed each other before the British came and did the same. So we could not have lived peacefully with each other at all.
With China, we saw that those people are trustworthy allies who have honor unlike the indians. Thats why we Pakistanis are richer for having friends with China and have not lost anything keeping Indians as our enemies.

who are you to talk about honor when you yourself are the biggest beggars on this planet???? North Korea does not go with a begging bowl to the IMF even though its economy is in shambles and much worse than Pakistan's.
It does not have friends to lend it money like the oil laden Saudis as you have. They do not sell their six and seven year boys as camel jockeys or girls as sex slaves to rich foreign nationals.

Your per capita income would have been much worse than the poorest nation on earth if the international community and particularly the West had not helped you since 1947. You milked the West through 60 years of your existence presenting yourself as a counter to the much bigger India.

You people spew venom and inhumanely treat even your fellow countrymen like Shias and ahmadiyas and not to mention Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, etc. By the way, when did you ever respect the infidel Chinese? Your deceit and lies are legendary.

You people would have gone a long way if you showed even 10% of the respect for Shias and other fellow non-muslim Pakistanis that you profess for the Chinese.

 

[Slayer786]

who are you to talk about honor when you yourself are the biggest beggars on this planet???? North Korea does not go with a begging bowl to the IMF even though its economy is in shambles and much worse than Pakistan's.
It does not have friends to lend it money like the oil laden Saudis as you have. They do not sell their six and seven year boys as camel jockeys or girls as sex slaves to rich foreign nationals.

Your per capita income would have been much worse than the poorest nation on earth if the international community and particularly the West had not helped you since 1947. You milked the West through 60 years of your existence presenting yourself as a counter to the much bigger India.

You people spew venom and inhumanely treat even your fellow countrymen like Shias and ahmadiyas and not to mention Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, etc. By the way, when did you ever respect the infidel Chinese? Your deceit and lies are legendary.

You people would have gone a long way if you showed even 10% of the respect for Shias and other fellow non-muslim Pakistanis that you profess for the Chinese.

Actually when IMF gioves loans to any country, it takes the payment with interests. Nothing is free. I dont know, from where this begging comes from. Both the World Bank and IMF are internatinal agencies who gives loans to countries with interests. Begging would be when they give us money as charity and dont expect it back. So before writing anything do some basic research otherwise it will make you look s.tupid, or a m.oron.
Also, I never wrote anything hateful about Shias, I mentioned that we have aq better relationship with China and Saudis. And Iran who has tilted in favor of India is not a buddy anymore. Where did I write I hate Shias.
I never wrote anythig about shias or any non-muslim in Pakistan. My best freinds are shias, I have lived and studied and worked with them all my life. Majority of sunnis dont care if a person is shia or sunni. Zulfiqar Bhutto, Benazir Bhutto, Yousuf Raza Gilani all were shias Prime Minister of Pakistan. We have for the first time a sikh captain in Pakistan army and also a hindu captain. We have had many christians fighting in our Armed forces and living in Pakistan.
Now when you write that we are killing the shias, or the non-muslims it makes me laugh. Not only the they are suffering but ordinary Pakistanis who maybe sunnis or shias are also targeted and killed by these terrorists in Pakistan. These terrorists are few and we are many and they will never break our resolve.
Funny when you mention that we sell 6 or 7 year old boys as camel jockeys. Atleast those boys will not be suffering the humiliation as the young indian brides suffer at the hands of rich old Arabs who come to India and marry them and forcefully rape them every night.

The Times of India

One minor girl, many Arabs
Mohammed Wajihuddin, TNN Sep 4, 2005, 11.41am IST

They are old predators with new vigour. Often bearded, invariably in flowing robes and expensive turbans. The rich, middle-aged Arabs increasingly stalk the deprived streets of Hyderabad like medieval monarchs would stalk their harems in days that we wrongly think are history. These Viagra enabled Arabs are perpetrating a blatant crime under the veneer of nikaah, the Islamic rules of marriage. Misusing the sanctioned provision which allows a Muslim man to have four wives at a time, many old Arabs are not just marrying minors in Hyderabad, but marrying more than one minor in a single sitting.

"The Arabs prefer teenage, virgin brides," says Jameela Nishat, who counsels and sensitises young women against the malaise. Two of her volunteers, Shahida Yasmeen and Tasneem Sultana, in their early twenties experienced the trauma of being scanned by an old Arab. A few months ago, they accompanied an undercover television reporter who was following these sham marriages. They reached a home where half a dozen other prospective brides were gathered. "It resembled a brothel. The girls were paraded before the Arab who would lift the girls' burqa, run his fingers through their hair, gaze at their figures and converse through an interpreter," says Yasmeen recalling the day.

Poverty, Greed Motivate Indians To Sell Young Daughters As Brides -

By Molly Moore

Washington Post

HYDERABAD, India - At age 16, Nasreen was married off to a 59-year-old man from the United Arab Emirates who journeyed to this Muslim city in search of a cheap Indian bride. Nasreen cost him $161.

Three years later, after what Nasreen described as a torturous marriage of beatings and abuse in the Middle East, her husband abandoned her and returned to the same Hyderabad neighborhood to solicit a new young bride.

"My life is ruined," Nasreen said sobbing, sitting on the floor of her father's home, clutching the year-old daughter born after her husband deserted her.

Social workers say the fathers are motivated by greed. "They use their daughters for money," said one social worker. "These girls are being exploited."

The fathers, including Nasreen's, argue that the marriages offer an escape from poverty - for the daughters as well as the rest of the family.
For many years, the bride business flourished in the serpentine streets of the clannish Old City, invisible to the outside world. But three years ago the practice was exposed when a flight attendant discovered a frail 12-year-old girl named Ameena crying on an airliner bound for the Middle East. Ameena told the attendant that her father had forced her to marry the 60-year-old Saudi Arabian in the seat next to her. The attendant reported the incident to Indian authorities, and the case made headlines across India and the world.

Source:Copyright ©2013 The Seattle Times Company

This must make you guys really proud.

 

[bronxbull]

Shah of Iran and Ayub Khan both were American puppet dictators. America had long wanted India and Pakistan to fight against China, which Pakistan never accepted.

In 1962 China asked Pakistan to join the attack and liberate Kashmir from the Indian occupation. It was a blunder commited by Pakistan not to join, only to fight another war in three years later. Had we joined the Chinese, today Kashmir would be a free place and India would have been contained.

If the aunt had something,she would be the uncle.

Ifs and Buts and Buts and Ifs.

 

[bronxbull]

Its true that Pakistan was tied up in CENTO & SEATO back then. However the underlying demand of Nehru was to bring Pakistan {A rouge breakaway province} back to 'Mother India'. Americans were 'against' Pakistan's creation and supported Nehru's demands throughout the 50s, only if he formally allies with the US and fights against the 'communist menace' if needed. The Nehru rejected an alliance with the US, only then the US came to Pakistan and formed the 'Asian pack', made up of Pakistan,Iran,Saudi Arabian dictators to contain the communism.

Pakistan was being pushed time and again to give up ties with China altogether as the US didn't want Pakistani green being painted red. President J.F Kennedy believed that Pakistan being an ideological Muslim state was a natural enemy of 'Godless China'. It didn't turn out to be true, as despite the ideological differences Pakistan reached out to China and formed relations. Having China as an enemy was the last thing we wanted as we were surrounded by India [USSR's ally] , and USSR itself [Just 90 miles away].

I believe attacking India with China in 1962 would have resulted in Kashmir's liberation as we had the manpower to inject in Kashmir from 3 axis,with locals being armed to join the fight, while China would take care of India from the points of entry,this would have resulted in choking Indian forces in Kashmir by denying them a supply line and reinforcements. A joint operation could have lead to destroying Indian ability to send reinforcements into Kashmir. This perhaps was the biggest opportunity missed in Pakistani history in regards to Kashmir liberation. It came back to roost in 1964,when PM Shahstri annexed Kashmir which sparked a war in 1965 anyway, which we had to fight on our own.

Nehru talks big and bullshits regularly,

it is our fault we took him seriously,why did you do so?

 

[Jackdaws]

Yes, India was fairly weak in 1962 and the black eye China gave India was a big wake up call. If Pakistan had captured Kashmir in 1962, India would in all probability wrested all of it back in 1971. Neither country had nukes. Either way, Pakistan has always been rather foolhardy in choosing its friends - the USA used it then, still uses it now. China is no different.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

It's not too late for Pakistan to join our war effort next time.

India looks like it wants to start something, as if it can somehow save face from all the border incursions.

We can cut the Chicken's Neck corridor and hand power to the NE Indian separatists. Then promise to defend them against the inevitable Indian counter-attack.

 

[chhota bheem]

It's not too late for Pakistan to join our war effort next time.

India looks like it wants to start something, as if it can somehow save face from all the border incursions.

We can cut the Chicken's Neck corridor and hand power to the NE Indian separatists. Then promise to defend them against the inevitable Indian counter-attack.

Dragon move on ,no need to bring china in and that too on an imaginary future situation to break India.then in an imaginary situation Indian can also break china into bits. it will better if you stick to the thread .

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Dragon move on ,no need to bring china in and that too on an imaginary future situation to break India.then in an imaginary situation Indian can also break china into bits. it will better if you stick to the thread .

The Indian Army itself, said that India is no match for China.

Do you know more than the Indian Armed Forces?

If you want to break us, like Nehru wanted to, then do another Forward Policy. Then we'll see who knows more, the Indian Army, or the internet fanboys.