Pakistan scores a diplomatic brownie point: Kayani gets Russia to 'ignore'

[karan21]

For you people everything begins and ends with money - inter state relations are bigger than these matters alone. However you would not be able to understand such matters.

Inter state relations without real hard investment have no significance. They are worthless and can be broken anytime. Now if russian companies create assets in Pakistan then we would take this seriously, because now russia has something to take care of in Pakistan. However you would not be able to understand such matters .

 

[Secur]

Again, you are reading what you want, not, what I am writing. I did not say Pakistan runs on aid. I said Pakistan needs aid. For what? Building dams, building power projects and infrastructure. You have resources. Good. Who is going to develop it. You are going to need money. Is that so difficult to understand? Aid can be either loan based or fee. Hope you understand this.

Foreign policy - For India post 2001...Pakistan is nuisance value internationally. Which is why we no longer get ourselves hyphenated with Pakistan. Which is why the US was forced to have an AfPak envoy and not club India in the same bracket. Hope you know this. Our foreign policy is stated to promote our national interests globally. Unlike the Pak policy which is single focused which is India and Kashmir.

As far as Afghanistan is concerned, our objective is clearly defined and well laid out. You of all should know, not to understimate what Kabul wants and can do to that region. As of date, Islamabad has less influence than most people, except on the Haqqani network. Which is what I say again. Nuisance value.

Actually , no ... You said " Pakistan needs aid for another 10 years to get out of this mess " which fortunately isn't the case ... So if we do not run on aid , why would we want aid ? Are you now confusing investments and loans etc for freebies ? Investors can develop them easily when stability and peace prevails in Pakistan ... What is so hard to understand ?

Again , no ... India post and pre 2001 has always based its foreign policy against Pakistan ... Whatever you think my country is , it still has the same geostrategic value and influence so that makes no difference ... The Pak-Af term refers to a specific theater of operation and doesn't mean some sort of club of countries with same situation ... Hope you understand this !

To destabilize Pakistan , yes it is very well defined ... Not that we are unaware of it ... There's just no Kabul , no central Govt ... Just different warlords and factions competing with each other for their own domination and interests ... Islamabad has more influence in Afghanistan than you think ... I will give you a hint - families living on both sides of the Durand line have relations with each other and PKR is still used in major Afghan cities ...

 

[Ticker]

Please provide links, if you can;t please edit your post.

I am the link.

You want to read the details, please find it out yourself on the net.

 

[MilSpec]

For you people everything begins and ends with money - inter state relations are bigger than these matters alone. However you would not be able to understand such matters.

were there any future co-operation instruments, treaties, accords signed.

 

[surya kiran]

I am the link.

You want to read the details, please find it out yourself on the net.

So you have no proof Flying a kite

 

[Ticker]

Inter state relations without real hard investment have no significance. They are worthless and can be broken anytime. Now if russian companies create assets in Pakistan then we would take this seriously, because now russia has something to take care of in Pakistan. However you would not be able to understand such matters .

There is a difference between geo-economics and geo-politics. Geo-political aspects always rule and govern the geo-economy. When the relations improve, intra-economic aspects start taking shape. If you read some of my earlier posts, I have given examples as to how the economic interaction is likely to enhance, as it will indeed.

However, the economic interaction may not be a binding factor between two such relationships - it is always the mutual interests of the countries that bind the relationship.

So you have no proof Flying a kite

Did I say that.

 

[DroneAcharya]

For you people everything begins and ends with money - inter state relations are bigger than these matters alone. However you would not be able to understand such matters.

We actually see the status of inter-state relations between US and Pakistan as a fact. Having your sovereignty violated day-in and day-out by MQ-9s and having Stealth-choppers coming to Abbotabad unannounced is not an achievement exactly. If that is the kind of inter-state relations between Pakistan and Russia, then i am sure Foreign Policy is not exactly Pakistan's forte.

 

[KRAIT]

Please provide links, if you can;t please edit your post.

Stop wasting time on him.

We all know where India stands at world political stage and I haven't stated other areas of cooperation f India with US and Russia. Still we need to focus on increasing our reach and power rather than expecting few people to understand the ground reality.

 

[Ticker]

were there any future co-operation instruments, treaties, accords signed.

I am not your news paper, Find it out yourself.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

For you people everything begins and ends with money - inter state relations are bigger than these matters alone. However you would not be able to understand such matters.

yeah thats called greed isnt it?

 

[surya kiran]

Actually , no ... You said " Pakistan needs aid for another 10 years to get out of this mess " which fortunately isn't the case ... So if we do not run on aid , why would we want aid ? Are you now confusing investments and loans etc for freebies ? Investors can develop them easily when stability and peace prevails in Pakistan ... What is so hard to understand ?

Again , no ... India post and pre 2001 has always based its foreign policy against Pakistan ... Whatever you think my country is , it still has the same geostrategic value and influence so that makes no difference ... The Pak-Af term refers to a specific theater of operation and doesn't mean some sort of club of countries with same situation ... Hope you understand this !

To destabilize Pakistan , yes it is very well defined ... Not that we are unaware of it ... There's just no Kabul , no central Govt ... Just different warlords and factions competing with each other for their own domination and interests ... Islamabad has more influence in Afghanistan than you think ... I will give you a hint - families living on both sides of the Durand line have relations with each other and PKR is still used in major Afghan cities ...

Aid ---- Can be loan or can be grant. Hope you understand this.
Investment - Can be equity based or debt based. Hope you understand this.

Does Pakistan have the reserves today or the environment today for companies to invest? China you best friend is not ready to invest. So you need aid! Is that so difficult to comprehend? Russia refused to invest. Difficult to comprehend? Look at ground realities. You need a loan or a developmental grant which will help first in laying down infra and then using those resources. Now do you understand? Nobody in this world, including China is going to invest unless you give a secure, safe and stable environment. In the current scenario, it does not exist. Which is why you need aid. Btw, it is not a bad thing.

It's like when you start a business, if you have 100 Rs, and somebody gives you 50 Rs. it will take you 30 yrs to become big. But, if you get aid of 10000 Rs. you can grow in 5 yrs and repay the aid in the next 10 yrs. Now do you understand?

And, best of luck with the Durand line. The Afghans have not accepted it.

 

[Secur]

Actually I always said geo-politics change gradually. Ask anyone around. Even Oscar knows, I think he remembers, when I talked about that its just few steps and one shouldn't draw conclusions or predict anything as nothing is clear. For sudden geo-political change or strategic change, you need events like 9/11 or OBL raid. These events influences the people very rapidly.

I am not saying its hard to accept Russia and Pakistan as friends as I know you guys may be strategic partner at best with everyone looking out for its own interest. For friendship, you need decades long relations, cultural ties, trust and this doesn't happen overnight.

Even China didn't came to help Pakistan in 1971 by same Russia (USSR) and it pushed US away too. One of the major reason of India's victory in 71 was USSR involvement in keeping US and China away from helping you. And you were the same nation that helped in USSR defeat in Afghanistan which led to USSR disintegration. I think the relations will take time to become "friendly".

Another thing is Russia wants Pakistan to remain against Islamic fundamentalists. This reason is not discussed by many people, I don't know why.

BTW there are no friends and foes in International politics, just every one looking out for their own interest. Right now, to attract one country, you sometimes show interest to the enemy country, that makes the target country to take them seriously.

Its like Russia (Girl A) flirting with Pakistan (Boy B) to get more attention of her boyfriend (Boy C). Girl A sends signal to Boy B that if you give attention to US (Girl D) and start talking to her, she will leave him for Boy C.................

Basic courtship and love funda.....

So they are changing gradually ... Why contradict yourself then ? Yes , nothing is concrete but we are very well starting to get a blurred picture of the future ... NATO is withdrawing from the Afghanistan - leaving a vacuum which can very well be the reason for this sudden geostrategic change and shift in allies and partners ... Pakistan doesn't view US as a friend at the moment and Kremlin knows this very well ...

Well , I do not anybody has yet talked of the sort of friendship that you are talking about - something along the lines of China but still strategic partnership is a possibility ...

They worked against us and we worked against them ... Again due to a clash of interests ... Is it the case at the moment ? Why ? Because interests are more or less converging ... Pakistan needs trade , economic prosperity , development and Russia wants almost the same ... Both are antagonized to US ...

Yes , which is again something Islamabad wants to take care of ... Whether any country asks or not ...

Learned it a long time ago between emotionals ...

The interesting example can simply go other way too - dont you think ? If I merely add your country and rewrite it ... But it will be violation of copyrights

 

[karan21]

There is a difference between geo-economics and geo-politics. Geo-political aspects always rule and govern the geo-economy. When the relations improve, intra-economic aspects start taking shape. If you read some of my earlier posts, I have given examples as to how the economic interaction is likely to enhance, as it will indeed.

However, the economic interaction may not be a binding factor between two such relationships - it is always the mutual interests of the countries that bind the relationship.

There is no mutual interest btw Russia and Pakistan. Don't consider yourself too important. They won't enter the country in crisis to serve their interest.

 

[Ticker]

Stop wasting time on him.

We all know where India stands at world political stage and I haven't stated other areas of cooperation f India with US and Russia. Still we need to focus on increasing our reach and power rather than expecting few people to understand the ground reality.

Yes stop wasting your time trying to explain the unexplainable.

India stands nowhere in the current geo-political milieu. If you don't agree with the American demands, even the earth will be taken out from under your feet. Your only chance is to bow to the American demands and portray as if you are not doing it.

How long can you people make a fool of yourself and your own country men and women.

India is not shining baba - that was an electioneering slogan gone astray.

 

[Paan Singh]

Actually , NATO has a declared policy about its role post 2014 in Afghanistan ... So I am not guessing or making assumptions ... How many countries have left that country by now ? Wasn't there a recent reduction in troops by US to meet the deadline of withdrawal faster and calls by British to abandon Afghanistan ? ... Get me a source for US gonna stay there till 2024 ... Even if it does , it will make no difference honestly because they have fought in Afghanistan for a whole decade by now without any fruitful results or victory to the extent that still major parts of Afghanistan are controlled by Taliban and other militias ... A few thousand troops will hardly make any difference when almost a million weren't able to do anything ...

Yes they do not , but the signing and the pace of signing agreements specially the recent defense accord does ...

Nah , we have ... The best US can do is impose unilateral sanctions since any resolution of that sort isn't going to be passed in UNSC ... We know the reasons well ... So has the US-Russia rivalry come to an end or we were witnessing a minor hibernation by the bear ?

US troops to stay in Afghanistan till 2024: envoy | DAWN.COM

Obama in Afghanistan to Sign Deal to Continue War Through 2024 -- News from Antiwar.com

US to stay in Afghanistan until 2024 - FT.com

Thats why i told u about to wait till 2014 .

2)Dont assume or hope from bear much.Even iran did and syria did and putin is most pro american leader ever russia had.
Same putin have asked nato to use suppliy routes after 2014 and even their air ports and soldiers are used to provide security to nato supplies as many of the containers get destroyed in mid way from pakistan....


Now come on sanctions....

Your main export is kapda chaddar who goes to U.S or west or u can say textiles.

+

Your labor goes to west and for education too and ur economy much depends on the textile export.if this is stopped then u will fall in week and i will ask u to see example of north korea.That was the reason who came into play when nato supplies were opened by paksitan under pressure and many of the leaders of pakistan told that they cant sustain U.S pressure and even u had to let the supplies in 1500 dollars whose initial price was 5000 dollars.

Buddy,iran have oil and its location is more important then paksitan due to gulf strait and paksitan have none of that.

Yes,u r correct on one point that thats game b/w russia and U.S and once U.S solves russian concerns or their demands like missile shield and entry in wto and more influence on europe and other concessions,that day bear will leave u in mid and u will be alone...

so thats game b/w russia and U.S and pakistan is used as football and ur destiny is kicks only either by U.S or by russia.