Pakistan says all visa restrictions for Bangladeshis removed

[Thorough Pro]

Also by people who don't give an F to wanna be intellectuals

"LOL" are three letters often used by those with either a limited education or limited vocabulary ( usually both )

 

[Homo Sapiens]

Reciprocal actions ?
It doesn't appear that way. What "reciprocal action" has Bangladesh to offer to Pakistan?
The apologies have been made in 1974. If this demand for repeated apologies is to be used as a stick to humiliate Pakistan on behalf of India, then Pakistan should revoke it's previous apology and forget Bangladesh.

Bangladesh did never asked Pakistan for 'repeated' apology. Pakistan never officially apologized for it's army's crime in 1971. General Musharraf's personal regret do not count. What our govt. and a large part of our civil society seek is an official apology involving Pakistan's parliament. This should be an one time affair. But many Bangladeshi do not expect Pakistan to be that generous or self reflecting. So it seems, this issue will remain a thorn on the relation between the two countries for generations like what we see between Turkey and Armenia.

Facts don't bear out what you are stating. Bangladesh has supported Indian aggression against Pakistan ever since it signed a defense pact with India in 1972. I am afraid Bangladesh is India's poodle:

There is no defence pact with India. Military relation with India is minimal except for some goodwill visit and small scale joint training. We never brought even a single bullet from India. On the other hand most of our defence equipment comes from China which India considers to be an adversary. Bangladesh's only strategic defence co-operation agreement is with China which was signed in 2002. What you are referring is 25 years India-Bangladesh friendship treaty which was signed soon after our independence. It was a much controversial agreement in Bangladesh and never uphold by any govt. This treaty expired in 1997 and never renewed. So it's case is closed long time ago.

Indo-Bangla Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Peace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

What's " our time " ? Very few of the members here were even born then. Why would anyone want to
visit Kaptai , Rangamati and Cox's Bazaar when we have Hawks Bay and Golden Sands right here in Pakistan.

You seems to be an over jealous Pakistani. He said those words in good faith yet you replied him in this manner. But the global tourism do not work like what you are saying here like 'why should I go to that country when my country has more beautiful scenery than that?'. People go to other countries to experience different culture, different living style, different cuisines, different landscape, different urban vibes, different entertainment, shopping experience etc. Otherwise why an American should visit Mexico or Canada when United States has everything within their border more so than Mexico or Canada? As far as I know, Americans are the largest number of tourists group in Mexico.

You can say, Bangladesh is not a country for holiday tourism or not an interesting place to visit for an average Pakistani. Which I would accept. But your reasoning here is not right according to tourism industry perspective.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Also by people who don't give an F to wanna be intellectuals

F is another letter used by those
who can never be intellectuals themselves (not even upto the "wannabe standard").

 

[Baibars_1260]

Bangladesh did never asked Pakistan for 'repeated' apology. Pakistan never officially apologized for it's army's crime in 1971.

Yes, Bangladesh does exactly that .
Pakistan apologized in 1974.

Pakistan Offers Apology to Bangladesh (Published 1974)

www.nytimes.com

NEW DELHI, April 10—1974.
Pakistan apologized today for her army's violence during the 1971. Bangladesh war. The apology, which coincided with the decision by Bangladesh to drop the proposed war‐crimes trials of 195 Pakistanis, was disclosed with the release of the agreement signed last night by the Foreign Ministers of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.
The delicate face‐saving compromise was worked out after five days of talks Essentially, Pakistan and Bangladesh gained what they wanted: Pakistan will receive all her prisoners held in captivity since the was including the 195 men Bangladesh wanted to place on trial for murder and rape. Bangladesh, which agreed to drop the trials, earned a public apology, a veiled acknowledgment by Pakistan that some of hers troops had been recklessly violent.
The prisoner issue and the threatened war‐crimes trial were a vivid and constant reminder on the subcontinent of the 1971 India‐Pakistan war, winch resulted in the loss of Palastan's eastern wing and the creation of Bandladesh.
Accord of Foreign Ministers
The agreement was released simultaneously tonight in New Delhi, Dacca and Islamabad. It was signed by Foreign Ministers Swaran Singh of India, Kamal Hossain of Bangladesh and Aziz Ahmed of Pakistan.

General Musharraf's personal regret do not count. What our govt. and a large part of our civil society seek is an official apology involving Pakistan's parliament. This should be an one time affair. But many Bangladeshi do not expect Pakistan to be that generous or self reflecting. So it seems, this issue will remain a thorn on the relation between the two countries for generations like what we see between Turkey and Armenia.

Pakistan has apologized on April 10 1974 in an accord signed by Bangladesh Foreign Minister Kamal Hossain and Pakistan Foreign Minister Aziz Ahmed. The talks were sponsored by India.
There were no war crimes. Your ally India would have handed the prisoners over to Bangladesh to be prosecuted if it had believed there were any war criminals amongst the prisoners.
Not a single Pakistani officer, soldier, or civilian captured by India was turned over to Bangladesh for prosecution. All 45,000 armed forces personnel, and an additional 45,000 civilians were returned with honor under the aegis of the Red Cross, to Pakistan.
Pakistanis surrendered only to Indian forces, and not to Bangladesh forces which Pakistan never recognized.
War crimes are prosecuted by the victor, not by a junior ally. Pakistani forces committed no war crimes against India.

There is no defence pact with India. Military relation with India is minimal except for some goodwill visit and small scale joint training. We never brought even a single bullet from India. On the other hand most of our defence equipment comes from China which India considers to be an adversary.

Disagree. Bangladesh has just procured 120 mm mortars from India. The BD army uses TATA trucks, Bangladesh has signed a separate defense deal with India in 2017.

India strengthens defence ties with Bangladesh

The Indian government, in line with US geo-strategic manoeuvres, is attempting to reduce Bangladesh’s military and economic reliance on China.

www.wsws.org

Bangladesh's only strategic defence co-operation agreement is with China which was signed in 2002. What you are referring is 25 years India-Bangladesh friendship treaty which was signed soon after our independence. It was a much controversial agreement in Bangladesh and never uphold by any govt. This treaty expired in 1997 and never renewed. So it's case is closed long time ago.

The 1972 Indo-Bangladesh Mutual Treaty of Friendship was never controversial. It was approved by the Jatiyo Sansad by the government headed by the Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman himself.
In 2015 and 2017 additional defense treaties were signed.

India-Bangladesh defence cooperation: Coming of age, at last?

India-Bangladesh defence cooperation: Coming of age, at last?

www.orfonline.org

You seems to be an over jealous Pakistani. He said those words in good faith yet you replied him in this manner. But the global tourism do not work like what you are saying here like 'why should I go to that country when my country has more beautiful scenery than that?'. People go to other countries to experience different culture, different living style, different cuisines, different landscape, different urban vibes, different entertainment, shopping experience etc. Otherwise why an American should visit Mexico or Canada when United States has everything within their border more so than Mexico or Canada? As far as I know, Americans are the largest number of tourists group in Mexico.

You can say, Bangladesh is not a country for holiday tourism or not an interesting place to visit for an average Pakistani. Which I would accept. But your reasoning here is not right according to tourism industry perspective.

Wrong Parallel.

1. Mexico and USA are neighboring countries and there is a large Latino population in the USA with relatives in Mexico.This makes up a large part of the "tourist population" traveling back and forth between Mexico and the USA.
2. Mexico and the USA also have close trade ties (even after NAFTA was watered down), and there is heavy commercial road traffic between the two countries.
3. Mexico and the USA are not enemy nations and Americans are very welcome in Mexico.
4. Mexico has some excellent tourist destinations like Cancun which are world class.

The comparison with Pakistan and Bangladesh does not match the USA Mexico relationship,
Bangladesh and Pakistan have no borders, no common population segment, no significant volume of trade and are officially enemy countries since no Peace and Reconciliation treaty has been signed. There are no world class or world heritage sites of interest to Pakistanis in Bangladesh. Pakistanis would much rather travel to China, Afghanistan, Iran and also to Turkey. We have a shared cultural heritage with Afghanistan, Iran, Western China, and Turkey. Pakistan shares a segment of the population speaking a common language with Iran and Afghanistan.
There is no shared heritage or culture with Bangladesh. There was a shared history which is best forgotten.

 

[Baibars_1260]

It is OK about the 1974 written understanding. So, ask IK to refer to 1974 to Hasina. He can openly reiterate 1974 to say Pakistan has already did apologize. Foreign diplomacy is a kind of tug of war.

If your Prime Minister is ignorant of the records of her own Foreign Ministry then it shows poorly on her intelligence or sincerity.
Our Prime Minister will do nothing.
The absurd demands can keep coming from Bangladesh till the end of time. There is not much Bangladesh can do.

By the way, your new Ambassador in Dhaka is very successful to melt the ice. Dhaka seems to be quite friendly towards him. So, to find out the reason, I checked if he was born and brought up in Dhaka. I found he was born and brought up, and educated in (west) Pakistan.

Those who are born in Dhaka are Bangladeshis not Pakistanis .
Why would a Pakistani be born in Dhaka?

Why would the competence of a diplomat be dependent on the location of where one is born?

There is no melting of ice. In fact your Prime Minister repeats Apologize like a parrot.

"Bangladesh can’t forget Pakistan’s atrocities in 1971: PM to Pakistan envoy"

Bangladesh can’t forget Pakistan’s atrocities in 1971: PM to Pakistan envoy

Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina has said Bangladesh cannot forget the atrocities committed by Pakistan in 1971.

www.thedailystar.net

 

[Homo Sapiens]

Disagree. Bangladesh has just procured 120 mm mortars from India. The BD army uses TATA trucks, Bangladesh has signed a separate defense deal with India in 2017.

Either you did not read news carefully or purposefully changed. Bangladesh did not ''procured'' 120mm morter from India. India gifted some 120mm morter shell to Bangladesh on the occasion of 49th victory day. These are the same shell used in 1971 war. It was a symbolic gesture. Refusal of gifts is not something practiced by peoples or nations willing to maintain friendly normal relation. It is very rude.

Those were not TATA truck but TATA Hexa sports vehicle for use of military officers in their private use. And this happened only recently perhaps in response to Indian pressure to use up 500 million Dollar defence credit. While you are making this as ''BD amry uses TATA trucks'' which is entirely false.

The 1972 Indo-Bangladesh Mutual Treaty of Friendship was never controversial. It was approved by the Jatiyo Sansad by the government headed by the Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman himself.
In 2015 and 2017 additional defense treaties were signed.

India-Bangladesh defence cooperation: Coming of age, at last?

India-Bangladesh defence cooperation: Coming of age, at last?

www.orfonline.org

Here again you are spreading half-truth and lie. That treaty was lapsed in 1997 . Read from the link you have provided here-

''The treaty completed 25 years in 1997, when the Awami League was the ruling party. Despite its India-friendly image, Bangladesh showed reluctance in renewing the treaty. India did not pursue the matter either, and the treaty simply lapsed.''

There is no continuation of that treaty after 1997 and no ''additional defence treaty'' over it. 2015 and 2017 defence MoU and agreements were related to combating armed terrorist group, exchanging goodwill visits, joint military training etc. These are very normal for any two neighboring countries sharing a long border and not in hostile term.

Wrong Parallel.

1. Mexico and USA are neighboring countries and there is a large Latino population in the USA with relatives in Mexico.This makes up a large part of the "tourist population" traveling back and forth between Mexico and the USA.
2. Mexico and the USA also have close trade ties (even after NAFTA was watered down), and there is heavy commercial road traffic between the two countries.
3. Mexico and the USA are not enemy nations and Americans are very welcome in Mexico.
4. Mexico has some excellent tourist destinations like Cancun which are world class.

I was not giving parallel between USA-Mexico with Bangladesh-Pakistan. You did not gist my argument here properly. I gave that example in refuting your claim that ''Pakistan has better beach or landscape than Bangladesh, so it does not need to come to Bangladesh''. This is not how tourism work. People go to other countries for many different reasons, not just to find better beaches, lakes or mountains than it's own.That's why I gave USA-Mexico example. Do you think USA has any shortage of good beach, lake, mountains or other stunning landscape compared to Mexico? Obviously not.

Bangladesh and Pakistan have no borders, no common population segment, no significant volume of trade and are officially enemy countries since no Peace and Reconciliation treaty has been signed. There are no world class or world heritage sites of interest to Pakistanis in Bangladesh. Pakistanis would much rather travel to China, Afghanistan, Iran and also to Turkey. We have a shared cultural heritage with Afghanistan, Iran, Western China, and Turkey. Pakistan shares a segment of the population speaking a common language with Iran and Afghanistan.
There is no shared heritage or culture with Bangladesh. There was a shared history which is best forgotten.

Cool down. We are not in a hurry to beg Pakistanis to come. So no need to give long list of reaons why Pakistanis will go to other countries than Bangladesh. You are absolutely fine going to countries of your choice. Still thousands of Pakistani businessmen, students comes to Bangladesh every year to do business or study.

 

[TopCat]

Travel, to Kathmandu, Colombo, Delhi, Islamabad, English is widely spoken. What is more Kolkata ( the other Bengali city ) has a population with an amazing fluency in English which is often spoken by the younger crowd with a clear accent. For that matter Kolkata is multilingual with a large " Hindustani " ( Urdu/ Hindi mix) speaking population.
Check out Aparna's accent:

Most likely like many other upper class people she studied in english medium missionary school in India

 

[Baibars_1260]

Most likely like many other upper class people she studied in english medium missionary school in India

She studied at Modern High School for girls (Kolkata) , founded by the Birla Group. It is not a missionary school. Other alumni from that school are Sarmila Bose ( historian ) who wrote the book Dead Reckoning: Memories of the 1971 Bangladesh War ; Alka Yagnik ( singer) ; actress Konkona Sen.

It is not necessary to go to a Catholic missionary school to speak reasonably good English in Kolkata.
Kolkata is a metropolitan city and has a multi-lingual environment and a high level of literacy. English and Hindi/ Urdu are commonly spoken across the city. Bengali is the state language. It is common for most people to know at least two of the three languages.
MHS follows a "three language " formula where the medium of education is English and children learn the National language Hindi, and the state language Bengali. Most schools in the state follow a three language formula, depending on whether the medium of education is Bengali, Hindi, or English. Urdu is widely taught as an optional language from junior school to the University level.
There is no linguistic ethnic chauvinism and no one gets lynched for speaking in a different language.,

 

[Paul2]

- Traveling..
Unless accompanied by someone it is virtually impossible to travel alone in Dhaka. Very few streets, or buildings have signs in English; taxi drivers converse only in Bengali and it is difficult to identify cars by their registration numbers because the number ( license) plates are in an alpha-numeric Bengali script

Never had trouble with that. A taxi driver at the airport, and hoteliers spoke ok English.

Biggest problem was food. You cannot imagine the amount of confusion I ran with that.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Never had trouble with that. A taxi driver at the airport, and hoteliers spoke ok English.

Biggest problem was food. You cannot imagine the amount of confusion I ran with that.

Certain taxi drivers ( pushed forward by touts ) , speak English and hotel staff of the expensive 4-5 star hotels speak passable English.
Try getting around Dhaka city on your own using public transport and three wheeler taxis.
(My information may be dated so I am open to correction:,)
First, there isn't any public transport as such unless we are referring to the packed filthy "coaster" mini-buses run by private operators.
The city has no Metro or Light Rail, no rental cars, and I am not sure if has an Uber clone.
Food and eating out is a problem Chinese restaurants aside there are very few western eating places or bakeries, apart from the in-house dining at the 5-star hotels. Even Dhaka airport doesn't offer much.
The best cuisine is Chinese which is world class, but apart from that the quality of Indian Mughlai food ( even if available outside the 5-star hotels) leaves much to be desired.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Either you did not read news carefully or purposefully changed. Bangladesh did not ''procured'' 120mm morter from India. India gifted some 120mm morter shell to Bangladesh on the occasion of 49th victory day. These are the same shell used in 1971 war. It was a symbolic gesture. Refusal of gifts is not something practiced by peoples or nations willing to maintain friendly normal relation. It is very rude.

Was responding to your comment on not using a "single bullet from India" whether gifted or otherwise. There is far more than that .
See below.
India And Bangladesh Join Hands For Defence Partnership And Co-Production In The Region

India and Bangladesh Join Hands For Defence Partnership And Co-Production In The Region

India-Bangladesh defence cooperation will boost India's 'neighborhood first' policy for the co-development in the region. Bangladesh is the third largest economy in South Asia and has a large fleet of 20,000 commercial vessels. Collaboration with Indian defence PSUs and OFs will create much...

www.businessworld.in

Those were not TATA truck but TATA Hexa sports vehicle for use of military officers in their private use. And this happened only recently perhaps in response to Indian pressure to use up 500 million Dollar defence credit. While you are making this as ''BD amry uses TATA trucks'' which is entirely false.

Stand corrected on the type of vehicle. Bangladesh army is using Indian vehicles and this is substantially more than the claim of not using a "single bullet". In fact for the two years from 1972-1974 the Bangladesh Army had significant stocks of arms from India left over from the Civil War.

Tata to supply 200 Hexa 4x4s to Bangladesh Army | Autocar India

Tata will provide the Bangladesh army with the four-wheel-drive variant of the Hexa. Click to know more.

www.autocarindia.com

Here again you are spreading half-truth and lie. That treaty was lapsed in 1997 . Read from the link you have provided here-

''The treaty completed 25 years in 1997, when the Awami League was the ruling party. Despite its India-friendly image, Bangladesh showed reluctance in renewing the treaty. India did not pursue the matter either, and the treaty simply lapsed.''

There is no continuation of that treaty after 1997 and no ''additional defence treaty'' over it. 2015 and 2017 defence MoU and agreements were related to combating armed terrorist group, exchanging goodwill visits, joint military training etc. These are very normal for any two neighboring countries sharing a long border and not in hostile term.

The new Bangladesh India relationship goes much further than border management. India is no longer funding Chakma Shanti Bahini militants and Bangladesh is not giving sanctuary to ULFA militant. This was during the period the 1972 Treaty was in force.
The new defense relationship between India and Bangladesh is far deeper.

Refer to extracts from the link above:

"India-Bangladesh defense cooperation will boost India's 'neighborhood first' policy for the co-development in the region. Bangladesh is the third largest economy in South Asia and has a large fleet of 20,000 commercial vessels. Collaboration with Indian defence PSUs and OFs will create much needed regional defense industrial ecosystem."

"Defense cooperation and partnership between India and Bangladesh has made significant gains in the last few years. India will jointly build up defence equipment with Bangladesh as Defence Secretary Production, Raj Kumar announced co- development program with Bangladesh.The strategic partnership between India-Bangladesh can become a pillar of regional strength and economic cooperation."

India doesn't even have such a deep defense relationship with Israel.

I was not giving parallel between USA-Mexico with Bangladesh-Pakistan. You did not gist my argument here properly. I gave that example in refuting your claim that ''Pakistan has better beach or landscape than Bangladesh, so it does not need to come to Bangladesh''. This is not how tourism work. People go to other countries for many different reasons, not just to find better beaches, lakes or mountains than it's own.That's why I gave USA-Mexico example. Do you think USA has any shortage of good beach, lake, mountains or other stunning landscape compared to Mexico? Obviously not.

Please read my post again. I listed the reasons why Americans travel to Mexico and the three primary reasons are 1. Family visits 2. Trade and commerce 3. World class tourism places where English language is widespread.
No one travels to Mexico merely to see mountains and natural beauty.
All the above reasons may be clubbed together for an American visitor. The second favorite destination for Americans is Canada for precisely the same reasons.
For exactly the same reasons Bangladeshis travel to India, mostly to West Bengal where they are comfortable with the language.
There are no such incentives for Pakistanis to travel to Bangladesh.
We wouldn't know how to order food on the Rangamati Beach restaurant and in fact would likely get a hostile reception.

Cool down. We are not in a hurry to beg Pakistanis to come. So no need to give long list of reaons why Pakistanis will go to other countries than Bangladesh. You are absolutely fine going to countries of your choice. Still thousands of Pakistani businessmen, students comes to Bangladesh every year to do business or study.

No problem. As one who has traveled frequently to Bangladesh even I have no incentive to go there unless sent there on work. Would much rather visit Kolkata the " City of Joy " next door. Kolkata has some decent bars, great food, and the Kingfisher beer is fantastic.

Bangladesh intermittently halts issuing visas to Pakistanis anyway.

"Bangladesh halts visas for Pakistani nationals amid diplomatic impasse "

Bangladesh halts visas for Pakistani nationals amid diplomatic impasse

The diplomatic row between Bangladesh and Pakistan is on the rise since last year when Dhaka denied a visa to the Pakistan high commissioner.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[Homo Sapiens]

Refer to extracts from the link above:

"India-Bangladesh defense cooperation will boost India's 'neighborhood first' policy for the co-development in the region. Bangladesh is the third largest economy in South Asia and has a large fleet of 20,000 commercial vessels. Collaboration with Indian defence PSUs and OFs will create much needed regional defense industrial ecosystem

"Defense cooperation and partnership between India and Bangladesh has made significant gains in the last few years. India will jointly build up defence equipment with Bangladesh as Defence Secretary Production, Raj Kumar announced co- development program with Bangladesh.The strategic partnership between India-Bangladesh can become a pillar of regional strength and economic cooperation."

India doesn't even have such a deep defense relationship with Israel.

Do not quote wishful prediction of an Indian newspaper. There is no defence equipment co-production between Bangladesh and India till date and probably will never be. India for the last 4 years pressing Bangladesh to utilize their 500 million Dollar defence credit without any avail. This speak volume about the reluctance on part of Bangladesh to use any Indian weapon let alone defence co-production.

Stand corrected on the type of vehicle. Bangladesh army is using Indian vehicles and this is substantially more than the claim of not using a "single bullet". In fact for the two years from 1972-1974 the Bangladesh Army had significant stocks of arms from India left over from the Civil War.

By bullet I meant weapons. Not some civilian passenger car for Army officers. We do not care if some Army officer ride Indian made sports vehicle. What is important is, Bangladesh armed forces should never use Indian weapons. Which our armed forces still maintaining strictly. And do not give example of 1972-1974 period. It was an unusual period. Immediately after independence when India was considered a genuine ally and Bangladesh was almost wholly dependent on Indian support due to war ravaged economy. Even our National Airlines started by using an aircraft donated by India. So, do not give example of that desperate period. You are cynically looking for excuses.

 

[Bilal9]

Looks like pseudo-Pakistanis are writing up a storm - defending Pakistan against Bangladesh, when we all know who he really is.

@TopCat and @Homo Sapiens bhais, don't waste precious time with pseudo Pakistanis.

For a Pakistani, awfully close intimate knowledge of all Kolkata stuff. Hmmmm?

Sanghis also shamelessly masquerading as Brit and US Christians, Israeli Jews.....

 

[Imran Khan]

 

[Baibars_1260]

Do not quote wishful prediction of an Indian newspaper. There is no defence equipment co-production between Bangladesh and India till date and probably will never be. India for the last 4 years pressing Bangladesh to utilize their 500 million Dollar defence credit without any avail. This speak volume about the reluctance on part of Bangladesh to use any Indian weapon let alone defence co-production.

By bullet I meant weapons. Not some civilian passenger car for Army officers. We do not care if some Army officer ride Indian made sports vehicle. What is important is, Bangladesh armed forces should never use Indian weapons. Which our armed forces still maintaining strictly. And do not give example of 1972-1974 period. It was an unusual period. Immediately after independence when India was considered a genuine ally and Bangladesh was almost wholly dependent on Indian support due to war ravaged economy. Even our National Airlines started by using an aircraft donated by India. So, do not give example of that desperate period. You are cynically looking for excuses.

It is good to know Bangladesh has an independent foreign and defense policy. We Pakistanis wish you the best. Just don't turn up piggy backing on your ally near our borders.
As a Pakistani who has shopped for souvenirs in Bangladesh, your jute and bamboo handicrafts wall hangings still adorn my living room wall.
I will never go back to Bangladesh ever again. My employers contract is over, but those wall hangings bought from Shilpigram "Karika" will remind me of my days there.
I still wish Dhaka was more like Kolkata. I would love to visit Kolkata over and over again, even though I can't get the famous Dhaka cheese and the misti doi from K.C. Das nowhere compares with Allaudin's.
But each country has its own charm...

My country is blessed with beauty. Come over and plan a skiing holiday in Naltar. Unlike Switzerland you don't need visas.