Pakistan’s India obsession a mistake: Obama

[deckingraj]

First of all... Let India be Infested with Worst-est Poverty... Even some areas be worse than Africa..... It's our problem, We have better economist in India when compared with Pakistan and this condition will not give Pakistan an edge over the next Indo-Pak war(Which I pray should NEVER happen)

How to spend the budget on what is purely our concern.... You earlier in this thread told Pakistan should increase its defense budget.... My only question is How Pakistan will increase the defense budget? Nothing more, Nothing less.

I am not advising Pakistan should strengthen its economy.... It is Obama who is advising Pakistan. I am happy if my country's enemy is not educated and unemployed.

I am really very happy that you did not care to respond for the latter part of my post. Infact India is atleast blessed with not having a wise foe.

Actually the bold part is a nighmare scenario for us....it is dangerous for us....

 

[huzihaidao12]

You are wrong.

Even with China we have good relations even in the presence of boundary issues.

Pakistan refuses to improve relations (including trade) till the disputes are resolved.

Yeah, I am Chinese, I do not know how good we have a relationship, you support the rebels, we have territorial disputes, or even we put good enough forward proposals in the past, India still does not accept because of his ambitions. your media and officials always keeping noise to China. Thank you for the good relationship, but I do not agree.

 

[Rocky25]

That is your problem, China plans to develop our own economy, and then became partners and Pakistan, if you really you do not want anything, just to develop good relations with your neighbors. particularly Pakistan, India always in a zero-sum thinking .

If it is not for Pakistani terrorist and urge to use Nukes... We seldom don't care about Pakistan and its relation with China. If it not for Anti-India.... China would had never looked back at Pakistan.... Just a proxy. That's it..... China cannot afford a confrontation with India especially at this time of Globalization, so cozy words keep pouring in to keep Pakistan happy.

 

[Vinod2070]

Well, China has 20 neighbors, 14 land neighbors, but we have resolved almost all the territorial issues in addition to India, for small countries, China and even concessions. The only problem is the sea territory, but the marine territory is a new concept, it Is a common international disputes, Japan and South Korea also have islands territorial issue. Southeast Asian countries also have an internal dispute in the South China Sea. I put a word in this, China is far more responsible to our neighbors than India.

I can assure you that this is not how your neighbors think. Let me share something, the observations of an Indian when he visited your East Asian neighbors.

Why India is not a threat May 04, 2008

On a recent lecture tour of the Far East I was repeatedly asked a fascinating question: Why does the rise of India not threaten the world in the same way as China does? We in India don’t realize the depth of fear that China inspires in the East.
My first reaction was that India is a democracy and democracies are supposed to be more peaceful. I was quickly reminded that democracies have been known to invade places like Iraq.

True, but democracies tend to have more voices and more checks and balances. India’s democracy, in particular, is a coalition of twenty parties. It cannot govern itself--how could it possibly threaten anyone? India’s inability to take advantage of an historic opportunity to climb to world power status through the Indo-US nuclear deal shows this. My audiences found it inexplicable that Indians could quibble over a treaty that is so obviously in India’s self-interest. Someone wondered if we had a self-destructive streak. The consensus was that had China been a multi-party democracy, and had it been presented with the same opportunity, it would grabbed and run with it. .

Asian security analysts, I was surprised to note, had deep respect for India’s military capabilities. They seemed to know all about our navy’s aircraft-carrier force, our air force’s latest Sukhois and MiGs, and our army’s professionalism (although they felt that we had been badly let down by DRDO). They believed that India’s military did not threaten Asia because of the turmoil in our neighbourhood. Terrorist threats from Pakistan, an unending civil war in Sri Lanka, Maoists in Nepal and Bangladesh’s chronic instability—these were huge distractions which prevented India from thinking strategically about its role in the world.

East Asians who had visited India felt that we still needed to get our act together. Although India’s economy was growing brilliantly and Indian companies had become world beaters, they found our physical and social infrastructure “depressing”. What is the point of having a world class airport in Bangalore if it is isn’t well connected to the city? What is the point of having a million government primary schools if half the students can’t read a single sentence? One speaker asked why Indians are still wedded to democracy when it has failed to deliver the most basic public services.

Nevertheless, I came away with a feeling that East Asians are cheering us and believe that history’s momentum is on our side. They have their own reasons, of course—they fear China and desperately want a countervailing power. They don’t trust Japan—the wounds of the Second World War have not yet healed. They wish that the Indian state would show more determination, however, and shed its old self-perception of a victimized Third World nation. Some expressed the hope that India’s rise would improve Asia’s image as a whole. India’s mind was closer to the West. Indians spoke good English and were more open. The West distrusted Han China profoundly because it was closed, and the Tibetan protests had not helped.

Buddhists in the audience seemed to cheer India’s rise because the post-9/11 world needed our traditions of tolerance and non-violence. I was surprised to see how many remembered Mahatma Gandhi and Tagore. They even wanted me to feel embarrassed about our nuclear weapons. On my way home, I asked myself that if it is true that the Indian state is genuinely less aggressive, then that is in fact the right answer to the original question about why India’s rise does not threaten the world. I, for one, do not want an intimidating India which seeks military greatness. .

Gurcharan Das: Why India is not a threat May 04, 2008

If there were no India Pakistan dispute, you won't enjoy their trust to the same degree. None of your neighbors trusts you.

 

[huzihaidao12]

If it is not for Pakistani terrorist and urge to use Nukes... We seldom don't care about Pakistan and its relation with China. If it not for Anti-India.... China would had never looked back at Pakistan.... Just a proxy. That's it..... China cannot afford a confrontation with India especially at this time of Globalization, so cozy words keep pouring in to keep Pakistan happy.

Throw away your game, I admit that Pakistan may have some problems, if something is true, but India will never clean. As for China, because India to delay solving our problems, do you think China has no right to defense for ourselves? Moreover, India is not so important. We develop relations and Pakistan, is Pakistan's own value. with or without India, we will do.

 

[Rocky25]

Yeah, I am Chinese, I do not know how good we have a relationship, you support the rebels, we have territorial disputes, or even good enough that we put forward proposals in the past, India still does not accept because of his ambitions. your media And officials always keeping noise to China. Thank you for the good relationship, but I do not agree.

What rebels may I ask? Dalai Lama? I hope he is not capable to take on mighty china.... not even 0.05%
I am working with many Chinese here.... May be over a 100 I interact with.... None of them is Anti-India or something of that sort. What forward proposal? If you put something in your favor does not mean we should agree.

India-China trade balance is over 50 Billion $. I am sorry that you do NOT represent CCP for your views to be taken seriously.

 

[huzihaidao12]

I can assure you that this is not how your neighbors think. Let me share something, the observations of an Indian when he visited your East Asian neighbors.



Gurcharan Das: Why India is not a threat May 04, 2008

If there were no India Pakistan dispute, you won't enjoy their trust to the same degree. None of your neighbors trusts you.

Ha ha ha ha, you want to show India's boast? Boast is not true, know it to avoid embarrassment.

 

[huzihaidao12]

What rebels may I ask? Dalai Lama? I hope he is not capable to take on mighty china.... not even 0.05%
I am working with many Chinese here.... May be over a 100 I interact with.... None of them is Anti-India or something of that sort. What forward proposal? If you put something in your favor does not mean we should agree.

India-China trade balance is over 50 Billion $. I am sorry that you do NOT represent CCP for your views to be taken seriously.

Ha ha ha ha, you did not say anything to my foundation. While I agree that to develop relations and India, but that really can not deny that we have a lot of problems. Cover
is not a good method to solve the problem with real attitude.

 

[Rocky25]

Throw away your game, I admit that Pakistan may have some problems, if something is true, but India will never clean. As for China, because India to delay solving our problems, do you think China has no right to defense for ourselves? Moreover, India is not so important. We develop relations and Pakistan, is Pakistan's own value. with or without India, we will do.

Wow where are the Chinese when Pakistan was in war at '65, '71 and '99.... Notable even US sent their ships, Where were chinese then?. Chinese are also not so clean... Infact No one is clean.

For argument sake you can say you can say Pakistan is important, It is human nature to choose friends of our choice based on what we get from them... Nations are not exceptions.

 

[Vinod2070]

Yeah, I am Chinese, I do not know how good we have a relationship, you support the rebels, we have territorial disputes, or even good enough that we put forward proposals in the past, India still does not accept because of his ambitions. your media And officials always keeping noise to China. Thank you for the good relationship, but I do not agree.

Well, the trade relations are good and it is growing fast.

There are Indian companies doing business in China and vice versa. Chinese companies have a large market in India and are building our infrastructure as well. I think it is going pretty well.

Also we are working together in multilateral forums like G-20, climate control, BRIC etc.

We have issues as well, boundary issue that is progressing very slowly if at all (but it is still mostly peaceful), your passing nukes and missiles to Pakistan has obviously not gone well as well as the sometimes pathetic steps like stapled visa which caused us to suspend our one China policy for a while. It seems that worked well and the stapled visa thingy is reversed for now.

The differences can be managed in my opinion unless China grows too ambitious. In that case India will do what it needs to, to safeguard our interests.

 

[Vinod2070]

Ha ha ha ha, you want to show India's boast? Boast is not true, know it to avoid embarrassment.

You need to be more open than that if you want to understand the reality or others' opinions.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Wow where are the Chinese when Pakistan was in war at '65, '71 and '99.... Notable even US sent their ships, Where were chinese then?. Chinese are also not so clean... Infact No one is clean.

For argument sake you can say you can say Pakistan is important, It is human nature to choose friends of our choice based on what we get from them... Nations are not exceptions.

Well, I tell you, in 1965 China has done enough, but we also have difficulty in our borders and the Soviet Union in 1971, after careful consideration, China did not send troops directly, but I think there should be a large number of military assistance to. In 99, it May be a really neutral, we are developing a critical stage, do not want any war in our borders.

But all that is history and history can not be used to deny now. more development of relations between China and Pakistan in Pakistan itself, stop your self illusion.

 

[Rocky25]

Ha ha ha ha, you did not say anything to my foundation. While I agree that to develop relations and India, but that really can not deny that we have a lot of problems. Cover
is not a good method to solve the problem with real attitude.

Buddy, China can make India upset in some areas like denying loans, Supporting Pakistan or giving stapled visas..... Again I am telling that CCP is not a fool to wage a direct full scale war with India for the sake of barren lands and Pakistan, Neither will India.

Yes we have problems, but that does not stopped Indian companies to start offshore offices in China or vice versa and India stopping Importing Chinese goods. Why should we irk a neighbor who is more powerful than us when we have a better option to remain silent and do nothing.

 

[huzihaidao12]

You need to be more open than that if you want to understand the reality or others' opinions.

It was really boasted a large part. but some are true. such as Japan and South Korea have fear for China rise. This is true. But China did not hurt anyone, we develop our economy, and if they are afraid of, that is their problem, not ours.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Buddy, China can make India upset in some areas like denying loans, Supporting Pakistan or giving stapled visas..... Again I am telling that CCP is not a fool to wage a direct full scale war with India for the sake of barren lands and Pakistan, Neither will India.

Yes we have problems, but that does not stopped Indian companies to start offshore offices in China or vice versa and India stopping Importing Chinese goods. Why should we irk a neighbor who is more powerful than us when we have a better option to remain silent and do nothing.

I am with your comments. But India's action does not have enough convincing.