Pakistan - Running out of Bargaining Chips

[Frankenstein]

Yeah, and this is how Pakistan treats its only Nobel Prize winner, its only beacon in the otherwise absent and scientifically non-existent community by rubbing off the rightful religious symbolism (the word Muslim ) from his Tombstone.

At least we don't treat our scientific community with such Disgrace. And this is precisely why, we see Extremist infiltrations in almost every sphere of the Pakistani society.

We are Muslims and we bury our dead ones, you are Hindus you cremate them i.e burn them, do you want me to cross the lines, I can do that

 

[Perceptron]

We are Muslims and we bury our dead ones, you are Hindus you cremate them i.e burn them, do you want me to cross the lines, I can do that

How does cremating anybody with full rituals for the dead, have to do anything with disgracing a scientist who bought nothing but name and fame to the "Land of the Pure" ? And yes, what lines do you want to cross here, that Quadri has already not crossed ?

 

[SMC]

It is precisely this mentality of living in denial about the Frankenstein monster nurtured and sheltered by the PA that has come back to devor Pakistan ; Refusing to accept that the WoT was necessary to avoid Pakistan being bombed back to stone age is just an indicator of how disconnected are Pakistanis from reality.

This may not look central to you, but this is the crux of the problem Pakistan will face now ; If Pakistan succumbs and refuses to be drawn in the WoT, then the flame of extremism will be fanned to produce many more Quadris and the liberals will begin a mass exodus from Pakistan ultimately reducing it to an Afghanistan-like situation.

Hence, it is imperative for Pakistan's own benefit to rise up to the occasion and crush the jihadist vermin once and for all.

For the 1000th time now, no I am not in any denial. You're in denial if you can't see the obvious, i.e. without WoT this crap wouldn't be happening. Goodness me, some glorious delusion from Indians I can see here. That even without WoT, we would've been seeing so many bomb blasts, etc. And WoT is what has fuelled extremism. All this crap about extremism, extremism. IT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT WoT. Yes, we were forced into WoT, where did you get the idea I am not agreeing with that.

And please don't waste our time with your take on events. Indians always have had their own version of events and according to them, if anyone disagrees with them, they must be in denial.

 

[SMC]

Yeah, and this is how Pakistan treats its only Nobel Prize winner, its only beacon in the otherwise absent and scientifically non-existent community by rubbing off the rightful religious symbolism (the word Muslim ) from his Tombstone.

At least we don't treat our scientific community with such Disgrace. And this is precisely why, we see Extremist infiltrations in almost every sphere of the Pakistani society.

How exactly is this disgraceful? It's not like it's been vandalized or something. I agree it's not something good, but the use of 'disgraceful' suggests something much worse, which isn't the case. Plus compare his gravestone to other ones, something which you're ignoring.

Furthermore, you're making a false inference from one case to all cases, i.e. with the use "We don't treat our scientific community like that". Kind of an ignorant, stereotypical thing I expect to hear from an ignorant redneck. Does he comprise the whole scientific community?

 

[SMC]

u forget.. they lost 2000 people in one go !! because of the monster they had created .. now its ur turned to face the heat...... nobody can absolve from their sin.. as on economy front they had some hundreds billions of dollar losses because of 9/11 .. as compared to 50 bn dollars that you guys have lost..

Also, how are we fighting the group we created? i.e. Afghan Taliban. We're fighting TTP, which we had nothing to do with. IF anyone is fighting who they created, it's the US.

 

[53fd]

He has also transformed the economy of Gujrat into a powerhouse, pulling millions out of poverty, im sure that justifies some sweets. Let me know when you find even one leader in Pakistan that has done even 10% of what he has done in Gujrat.

Hitler also brought a lot of development to Germany before committing The Holocaust. As did Stalin. So, just because he brought development does not mean he should be exonerated of his genocidal activities on his own people. The US has not even granted him a visa to step foot their country, for his crimes in Gujarat. And even the growth Modi has brought is extremely overrated. Let me shatter the illusions in your head by presenting a few examples:

1. Gujarat has become the most indebted state in the country under Modi. An average Gujarati has a per capita debt of Rs 20,000 on his head.

2. Ever since Modi took over as CM of Gujarat, unemployment has increased in Gujarat. 62,000 small and medium enterprises have closed down since he came.

3. His social discriminatory policies towards the Muslims are well known even after 2002.

4. For every nano car that is manufactured, Rs 60,000 is being contributed in terms of concessions by the Gujarat treasury.

5. Gujarat has the 3rd highest female infant mortality rate in India (after Punjab and Tamil Nadu). Gujarat has the 2nd worst male female ratio in India.

6. Gujarat is 5th for the least wages in India.


Those points above were from myself. To read the details of the myths of vibrant Gujarat under Modi, please open this link:

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/18064807/711007681/name/Gujarat.pdf

Enjoy

 

[Moorkh]

Without WoT this crap doesn't happen. We were forced into it. That's the point. Hoping for the quickest US defeat and humiliation in Afghanistan so they can get the **** out.

but my friend, the WoT is already on. and as a consequence there are tribal groups in pakistan who are really unhappy with pakistan.

if the US is humiliated and leaves, will these groups who are acting against pakistan suddenly change track? wont they be further motivated to dream big? they would have beaten 2 superpowers. they might start considering pakistan as small fry.

a US withdrawal will not end the WoT. once US leaves, you will be left alone to fight the Talibs and TTP and co. . So u should start hoping for a US withdrawal AFTER the talibs are gone

 

[53fd]

but my friend, the WoT is already on. and as a consequence there are tribal groups in pakistan who are really unhappy with pakistan.

if the US is humiliated and leaves, will these groups who are acting against pakistan suddenly change track?

I love it when Indians act as if they understand Pashtuns and Pakhtuns, and they think Afghanis love them. Can you tell me specifically which tribal groups you're talking about, who their tribal leaders/jirga are, and what specific region they belong to. Indians are constantly under the illusion that Afghans love them, and they think they understand them, but they have no cultural ties with them (no common borders) and have no understanding of Pashtun culture. Pakistan has more than 5 million Afghan refugees in the country, I don't think they need any kind of understanding of Afghans from Indians.

 

[desiman]

Hitler also brought a lot of development to Germany before committing The Holocaust. As did Stalin. So, just because he brought development does not mean he should be exonerated of his genocidal activities on his own people. The US has not even granted him a visa to step foot their country, for his crimes in Gujarat. And even the growth Modi has brought is extremely overrated. Let me shatter the illusions in your head by presenting a few examples:

1. Gujarat has become the most indebted state in the country under Modi. An average Gujarati has a per capita debt of Rs 20,000 on his head.

2. Ever since Modi took over as CM of Gujarat, unemployment has increased in Gujarat. 62,000 small and medium enterprises have closed down since he came.

3. His social discriminatory policies towards the Muslims are well known even after 2002.

4. For every nano car that is manufactured, Rs 60,000 is being contributed in terms of concessions by the Gujarat treasury.

5. Gujarat has the 3rd highest female infant mortality rate in India (after Punjab and Tamil Nadu). Gujarat has the 2nd worst male female ratio in India.

6. Gujarat is 5th for the least wages in India.


Those points above were from myself. To read the details of the myths of vibrant Gujarat under Modi, please open this link:

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/18064807/711007681/name/Gujarat.pdf

Enjoy

Please quote facts from a recognized source not a school power point project. I have seen the reality of Gujrat myself and so has the world. Comparing Modi to Hitler is only satisfies you and makes no real difference.

 

[53fd]

Please quote facts from a recognized source not a school power point project. I have seen the reality of Gujrat myself and so has the world. Comparing Modi to Hitler is only satisfies you and makes no real difference.

I have been to Gujarat myself (Rajkot, Ahmedabad, Baroda), and that state is in shambles. It is full of industries which bring along f-ilth, pollution, corruption etc. Punjab I believe (in my opinion) is the best state of northern India (haven't been to south India).

Anyways, coming to your point:

Gujarat's debt: 'Modi turning Gujarat into high-debt state' - Monsters and Critics

Gujarat's unemployment:
Noise pollution! How it can harm the economy - Rediff.com Business

Discrimination towards Muslims:
Exposing Modi?s claims over prosperity of Gujarat Muslims | TwoCircles.net

Female infant mortality rate:
Narendra Modi's `concerns'

Instead of challenging the facts provided in that slideshow link, you have no response for that. I can provide you more links to convince you, but it is very hard to convince an Indian jingoist .

 

[Bang Galore]

I have been to Gujarat myself (Rajkot, Ahmedabad, Baroda), and that state is in shambles. It is full of industries which bring along f-ilth, pollution, corruption etc.

Gujarat in shambles? I suggest you sell that idea to someone not from India.

Punjab I believe (in my opinion) is the best state of northern India (haven't been to south India).

Far from it, probably the worst of the lot(among the smaller states). Economy driven to the ground due to populism by the government.

Anyways, coming to your point:

Gujarat's debt: 'Modi turning Gujarat into high-debt state' - Monsters and Critics

2007 figures & you are quoting a political opponent.

Gujarat's unemployment:
Noise pollution! How it can harm the economy - Rediff.com Business

No idea where you are going with this.

Discrimination towards Muslims:
Exposing Modi?s claims over prosperity of Gujarat Muslims | TwoCircles.net

Also not understood, the article makes the argument that not all of Gujarat's Muslims are doing well & the fact that a few of them are doing really well skews the whole ratio to make it look like the whole community is doing well. While a valid argument, it's same for any statistic for any community.

Female infant mortality rate:
Narendra Modi's `concerns'

2004 figures.


http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_gujarat-economy-grows-twice-as-fast-as-india-s_1353534

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_gujarat-s-economy-back-on-track-says-i-t-dept_1397017

Gujarat makes rapid progress in health sector | | | Indian Express

 

[53fd]

Gujarat in shambles? I suggest you sell that idea to someone not from India.

Punjab I believe (in my opinion) is the best state of northern India (haven't been to south India).
Far from it, probably the worst of the lot(among the smaller states). Economy driven to the ground due to populism by the government.


Yes, that is why people that leave Gujarat here in the US never want to go back. By shambles, I didn't mean a lack of economic prosperity. Gujarat is a fi-lthy, polluted state full of industries, but it doesn't have the history of Punjab, Gujaratis don't have the charm and bravado of Punjabis (my personal encounters with Indians here in the US as well as India). Punjab has the most fertile land for cultivation, which is one of the reasons you have prosperity in the country, and is also known by some people as the 'land of the farmers' (in relation to the 'land of five rivers'). And from my personal experience, it also has the least beggars and people trying to scam foreigners (not trying to be prejudiced, but I believe it is because of the Sikhs-wonderful people). Where do farmers in the whole country fare as well as Punjab? Chandigarh arguably one of the best Indian cities is also in Punjab.

2007 figures & you are quoting a political opponent.

Yes, I am quoting the Congress. But the fact is, Gujarat has always been a prosperous state, with entrepreneurial people. I personally think that the development of Gujarat is more dependent on the Gujarati people than Modi(in my opinion).

No idea where you are going with this.

Oops, wrong link.

Media Scan Bangalore: Unemployment Rising In Vibrant Gujarat

I have personally talked to Gujarati people in many countries, all the way from Ghana to the US. In Ghana, while a patriotic religious Indian Muslim Gujarati family told me that they loved India, said that conditions in Ahmedabad had becoming increasingly bad on the verge of unbearable after 2002, and it was hard for them to live there (even though they were progressive, practicing Muslims). Almost every Gujarati (Muslim and Hindu) student I have met here in America does not want to go back to Gujarat. I can tell you personally, the economic conditions in America today are beyond pitiful.

I have no hatred towards any Indians, but I just want to say that Indians should look at opposing point of views with equal merit, and try to make their realities better. This applies to Pakistan as well.

 

[53fd]

He has also transformed the economy of Gujrat into a powerhouse, pulling millions out of poverty, im sure that justifies some sweets. Let me know when you find even one leader in Pakistan that has done even 10% of what he has done in Gujrat.

Please quote facts from a recognized source not a school power point project. I have seen the reality of Gujrat myself and so has the world.

What has Modi done for Gujarat:

The number of jobless people in Swarnim Gujarat state has risen by 97,095 in the last two years according to a government agency. In other words, on an average the number of unemployed people has been rising by over 4,000 per month.

In 2007-08, there were 7, 92,033 jobless people in Gujarat but in 2008-09 this had increased to 8, 24,769. But according to the latest figures (for the 11-month period ended February 2010) available with the state's labour and employment department, the number of unemployed people in the state is now 8, 89,128.

The number of jobless people is now close to 9 lakh.

Gujarat has a high 31.8 per cent population living below poverty line, says a Planning Commission report. This is higher than several major states such as Jammu & Kashmir (13.2 per cent), Kerala (19.7 per cent), Punjab (20.9 per cent), Himachal Pradesh (22.9 per cent), Haryana (24.1 per cent), Tamil Nadu (28.9 per cent) and Andhra Pradesh (29.9 per cent).


Poverty line for Gujarat – monthly expenditure of Rs 501.58 per person in rural and Rs 659.18 in urban areas – is based on National Sample Survey (NSS) norms fixed in 2005-06, which includes ‘nutritional, educational and health outcomes’, to quote from the report.

Senior expert Prof Indira Hirway says, “High incidence of poverty in rural Gujarat shows that the recent boost in agricultural production has failed to benefit the poorest of the poor, particularly farm labourers.”

Media Scan Bangalore: Unemployment Rising In Vibrant Gujarat


It was Shaktisinh Gohil’s turn. Following is his Facebook message on Vibrant Gujarat summit:

“Myth versus Reality : Vibrant Gujarat is about propaganda and favours to select group of industrialists. Educated unemployed youth figure has gone up to 8.5 lakh plus in Gujarat(and this is the govt figure only registered at employment bureaus). The real figure could be more starking. Gujarat is vibrant only for a few…. Otherwise, home grown Small and Medium Enterprises(SME) and industries face a host of problems.”

 

[53fd]

Desiman, Bang Galore; why so quiet now?

It is a myth that corporate India (and Modi) does anything to help the common Indian. In fact, the Tata's and other businesses only increase unemployment and poverty; by shifting the money towards the rich industrialists. This is also the reason for Naxalism in India, in the poor (in terms of the people) but resourceful states of Jharkhand, Chattisgarh and Orissa; as well as the other states. I have proven to you that even in 'vibrant Gujarat'; on a net average, 4000 people have gotten laid off every month over the past few years. So the net result is, jobs are not being created; they are being lost for the ordinary man.

As Indians haven't seen anything flashy in their lives in their country, and then they see some high rise buildings or mall culture in Western Ahmedabad, or even the Commonwealth games stadium, at the expense of the common man, they think these are the indicators for economic vibrancy when they are not. There are slums right next to every 'rich' and 'vibrant' place in India. This is what India's (so-called secular) democracy has given India. The fact is, the rich in India are getting richer; and the ordinary Indian (the poor Indian, who is the majority of the country) is getting poorer and poorer. Unemployment is increasing in India even in 'vibrant' states of India.

 

[DV RULES]

Yeah, and this is how Pakistan treats its only Nobel Prize winner, its only beacon in the otherwise absent and scientifically non-existent community by rubbing off the rightful religious symbolism (the word Muslim ) from his Tombstone.

At least we don't treat our scientific community with such Disgrace. And this is precisely why, we see Extremist infiltrations in almost every sphere of the Pakistani society.

Totally different & unrelated statement. I think you haven't bring scientists to make comparison with N.M.