Pakistan rumored to be interested in additional RJAF F-16s

[TigerOfMysore]

Acquiring any front line piece of hardware from the US is complete naïveté.

What is wrong with our thinking and policy makers. I am not making an argument that these particular F16s are good or not good, or whether they are better or not better than a J10C (we don't even know the blocks and airframe life left, spares, kits, and armaments).

My argument is purely predicated on the lack of reliability of US as a military supplier.

My argument is also predicated on the US' complete alignment on all fronts with our arch enemy India, in terms of socio-economic, political and military. Our number 1 threat is from the East , and buying equipment from a strategic ally to that enemy is akin to buying equipment from the neighbor in the East.

US and Indian alignment is thick as thieves. I don't want to express and give details of the deep nature of this alignment, but if only people knew that would just grab their heads in astonishment (it extends in all facets). Bring in the little Sparta on the Mediterranean, and its deep arrangement with India, and you begin to see the trifecta of this alliance. It covers economic, policy, fiscal, immigration, military, nuclear, energy, cyber, and culture.

Are we as a nation willing to take the same excuse that was given to us in 1965, as one of the reasons why we did not see through a complete victory was the US and Europeans suspending spares. Those days were far different and contemporary times are far more dangerous for us and our survival.

Buying any advanced military gear from the US is just pure and simple a bad policy decision. We should have learn't our lesson in 1965.

 

[Trailer23]

Next Aquisition for Pakistan Airforce should be

> F22 Raptors
> More J10C
> Chinese Stealth Planes

What are you smoking?

Less than 200 were ever built (past-tense).

Yeah, the last one came off the assembly over a decade back, my man.

And it is one of those planes that the US didn't even bother selling it to its closest allies (UK or !srael). Gives you an idea of how superior it was/is to the F-35 Lightning.

But, since you have it on the wishlist - why not. Lets go for it.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistan has limited financial strength, so we have to be wise about our purchases
The fact F16 may be available good news but immediate action is not required

2022 : Election & New Government formation is must

2023 :
A National Focus on Agriculture and Flood relief to Poor farmers
Focus on Human Rights Laws improvement in Pakistan
Seeds and Farming equipment welcomed
Inflation control / debt reduction is must

2024 :
A National Focus on Agriculture and Flood relief to Poor farmers
Focus on Human Rights Laws improvement in Pakistan
Seeds and Farming equipment welcomed
Inflation control / debt reduction is must


2025-2026 :
Debate about more F16 or Aquisition of J10C Or Project Azm
Feasibility will need to be evaluated, what is a better technological platform for next 15 years

A joint commission will be made of Scientist and Experts in field of Airforce and Navy to determine from financial standpoint what is idea choice for Pakistan

 

[LeGenD]

Acquiring any front line piece of hardware from the US is complete naïveté.

What is wrong with our thinking and policy makers. I am not making an argument that these particular F16s are good or not good, or whether they are better or not better than a J10C (we don't even know the blocks and airframe life left, spares, kits, and armaments).

My argument is purely predicated on the lack of reliability of US as a military supplier.

My argument is also predicated on the US' complete alignment on all fronts with our arch enemy India, in terms of socio-economic, political and military. Our number 1 threat is from the East , and buying equipment from a strategic ally to that enemy is akin to buying equipment from the neighbor in the East.

US and Indian alignment is thick as thieves. I don't want to express and give details of the deep nature of this alignment, but if only people knew that would just grab their heads in astonishment (it extends in all facets). Bring in the little Sparta on the Mediterranean, and its deep arrangement with India, and you begin to see the trifecta of this alliance. It covers economic, policy, fiscal, immigration, military, nuclear, energy, cyber, and culture.

Are we as a nation willing to take the same excuse that was given to us in 1965, as one of the reasons why we did not see through a complete victory was the US and Europeans suspending spares. Those days were far different and contemporary times are far more dangerous for us and our survival.

Buying any advanced military gear from the US is just pure and simple a bad policy decision. We should have learn't our lesson in 1965.

WE cannot base our foreign policy decisions on this line of thought. Entire world deals with India.

Pakistan was removed from FATF grey list after its requirements were met, right?

Pakistan needs to sort out its internal problems and become a progressive country.

Kashmir is globally recognized as disputed territory. Let us see if China can solve this problem.

 

[doorstar]

Acquiring any front line piece of hardware from the US is complete naïveté.

What is wrong with our thinking and policy makers. I am not making an argument that these particular F16s are good or not good, or whether they are better or not better than a J10C (we don't even know the blocks and airframe life left, spares, kits, and armaments).

My argument is purely predicated on the lack of reliability of US as a military supplier.

My argument is also predicated on the US' complete alignment on all fronts with our arch enemy India, in terms of socio-economic, political and military. Our number 1 threat is from the East , and buying equipment from a strategic ally to that enemy is akin to buying equipment from the neighbor in the East.

US and Indian alignment is thick as thieves. I don't want to express and give details of the deep nature of this alignment, but if only people knew that would just grab their heads in astonishment (it extends in all facets). Bring in the little Sparta on the Mediterranean, and its deep arrangement with India, and you begin to see the trifecta of this alliance. It covers economic, policy, fiscal, immigration, military, nuclear, energy, cyber, and culture.

Are we as a nation willing to take the same excuse that was given to us in 1965, as one of the reasons why we did not see through a complete victory was the US and Europeans suspending spares. Those days were far different and contemporary times are far more dangerous for us and our survival.

Buying any advanced military gear from the US is just pure and simple a bad policy decision. We should have learn't our lesson in 1965.

why are you still in amreeka? or are you just another feku false flagger fancying himself as a 5th gen warrior like Nasr? https://defence.pk/pdf/posts/13799965

---

LeGenD why don't you people prevent people using wrong location flags? are you all in cahoots?

looking at your posts you look genuine so perhaps it is something else that prevents you from doing certain things that need doing (and would be done on a genuine forum as opposed to a propaganda website).

 

[TheSolution]

Next Aquisition for Pakistan Airforce should be

> F22 Raptors (36 crafts )

or

> More J10C
> Chinese Stealth Planes

F-22 Raptors?

You can't be serious

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Aim high to get F18

However in all honesty , our economy and inflation can't allow us to squander 1 billion on old F16

We are better off to pay down our debt, this would be the most sensible thing to do

As Pakistan's currency has gone down 150%, and food and other stuff has risen buying old refurbished F16 should not be top priority

 

[MultaniGuy]

Jf17 block 3 is way better

True, but J-10Cs is a superior plane to JF-17s.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

why are you still in amreeka? or are you just another feku false flagger fancying himself as a 5th gen warrior like Nasr? https://defence.pk/pdf/posts/13799965

LeGenD why don't you people prevent people using wrong location flags? are you all in cahoots?

looking at your posts you look genuine so perhaps it is something else that prevents you from doing certain things that need doing (and would be done on a genuine forum as opposed to a propaganda website).

Ok - I am glad you got that off your chest. Hoping your heart rate is back to normal. For the sake of @doorstar can someone please change my flags to the IP I am posting from.

Also door bhai argue your points which I am sure have merit, and perhaps can add value to the discourse. Where anyone is from has little bearing on arguments. Yes it does give us some context on potential biases (they might have) but to be honest I have always believed "key agar khotaa bhe kui dhankee baat kar dey to sun ley tay hain or sabak sheekh lay te hain".

 

[TigerOfMysore]

WE cannot base our foreign policy decisions on this line of thought. Entire world deals with India.

Pakistan was removed from FATF grey list after its requirements were met, right?

Pakistan needs to sort out its internal problems and become a progressive country.

Kashmir is globally recognized as disputed territory. Let us see if China can solve this problem.

There is dealing and then there is dealing.
US and India alignment is not pure trade, it is far deeper.

It extends into SigInt, Cyber, CT in Kashmir, Intelligence sharing and most importantly China containment (other areas are energy, nuclear, market access, trade, immigration, culture, and education). Many of these elements work directly against our interests. Either we vociferously take that up with the Yanks (and take our time to build bridges there) or understand and accept the dynamic, and react accordingly. Short of this we'll over time loose any sense of independence and sovereignty in areas of foreign policy. The India Congressional Caucus is a powerful lobby, second only to the Israeli lobby, and please don't tell me that will not have a bearing on the future relationship.

How we cannot understand this dynamic and not consider its implications in both time of peace but also in times of war befuddles me. Modern machinery is temperamental and complex. Simple parts shortages can ground entire fleets. Advanced circuitry and control systems make programmatic and OEM oversight unflappable. In the rigor of war poor support will over time diminish war fighting capacity. Add to this Indian training against our fighting unit types, also can play into reduction of our fighting efficacy.

US has been very clear to us. In our discussions with them they have told us in clear terms that they expect not only South Asian but Pacific policy to be aligned with Indian interests. They have asked us to reduce temperature in Kashmir which we did. They were very upset with Moeed's and PTI strategy of vilifying Indian policies and BJPs Hinduvta tendencies which was slowly starting to take hold and raise questions around US's own Human Rights proclamations and its hypocrisy. This was and is diluting their efforts around Uyghirs. Pakistan has bent backwards in allaying US concerns regarding India. The result is India is getting bolder on all fronts.

Disinformation, funding of Pakistani politics, funding and planning Baluch insurgency, funding and planning of TTP and other groups, while pushing Pakistan outside of International mainstream in every conceivable channel from simple things like sports to global economic and political groups. The FATF white-listing was not because of India it was in-spite of India and with lots of help from others (not the US), and also by the mere fact that FATF needed to salvage some credibility of its independence.

India is playing consistently its Zero-Sum game, and we are the idiots for it.
I have said all I needed to on this topic.

 

[TheSolution]

Aim high to get F18

Doesn't make any sense logically

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Doesn't make any sense logically

Yes that is why , it is not best time to buy planes , F18 has logistical support issue , F16 is ok but we have many

Our pockets are empty (key point)

Our best-case scenario for next 2-3 year is kept current inventory

 

[Bilal9]

Indian Minister of External Affairs Jaishankar: "You are not phooooling anybody!!!!!!"

I give them about three hours before they start "Kum-plainning" to the US in official channels and start whiney critical discussion on WION...

What about Iraqi F-16’s or Egypt’s Block 52’s?

I saw something about Jordanian F-16's somewhere recently.

 

[araz]

There is dealing and then there is dealing.
US and India alignment is not pure trade, it is far deeper.

It extends into SigInt, Cyber, CT in Kashmir, Intelligence sharing and most importantly China containment (other areas are energy, nuclear, market access, trade, immigration, culture, and education). Many of these elements work directly against our interests. Either we vociferously take that up with the Yanks (and take our time to build bridges there) or understand and accept the dynamic, and react accordingly. Short of this we'll over time loose any sense of independence and sovereignty in areas of foreign policy. The India Congressional Caucus is a powerful lobby, second only to the Israeli lobby, and please don't tell me that will not have a bearing on the future relationship.

How we cannot understand this dynamic and not consider its implications in both time of peace but also in times of war befuddles me. Modern machinery is temperamental and complex. Simple parts shortages can ground entire fleets. Advanced circuitry and control systems make programmatic and OEM oversight unflappable. In the rigor of war poor support will over time diminish war fighting capacity. Add to this Indian training against our fighting unit types, also can play into reduction of our fighting efficacy.

US has been very clear to us. In our discussions with them they have told us in clear terms that they expect not only South Asian but Pacific policy to be aligned with Indian interests. They have asked us to reduce temperature in Kashmir which we did. They were very upset with Moeed's and PTI strategy of vilifying Indian policies and BJPs Hinduvta tendencies which was slowly starting to take hold and raise questions around US's own Human Rights proclamations and its hypocrisy. This was and is diluting their efforts around Uyghirs. Pakistan has bent backwards in allaying US concerns regarding India. The result is India is getting bolder on all fronts.

Disinformation, funding of Pakistani politics, funding and planning Baluch insurgency, funding and planning of TTP and other groups, while pushing Pakistan outside of International mainstream in every conceivable channel from simple things like sports to global economic and political groups. The FATF white-listing was not because of India it was in-spite of India and with lots of help from others (not the US), and also by the mere fact that FATF needed to salvage some credibility of its independence.

India is playing consistently its Zero-Sum game, and we are the idiots for it.
I have said all I needed to on this topic.

Bhai.
Iam happy to have this discourse with you. However it is beyond the scope of this thread. Please open a thread on US external relationships and I will be happy to contribute. You do have valid points but need an explanation on international relationships and how to see them.
A

 

[Princeps Senatus]

True, but J-10Cs is a superior plane to JF-17s.

It's a different weight class, not necessarily better