Pakistan protests India glacier tourism plan

[Marathaman]

now thats a Funny comment, we are fighting against the terrorists & also sending them to your country, thats Funny. But incase you are talking about the freedom fighters of Kashmir then they are not the terrorists they are just fighting for a right cause. though we are not supporting them in Govt lvl, but when we start it it will be not to long that kashmir will be our part.
we want to resolve it peacefully, but dont take it as our weakness.


Which Highily Successful visit you are talking about. ??

Regards
Wilco

Since when did Kashmiri "freedom fighters start" living in Pakistan? Come on....common sense people....

 

[F.O.X]

Since when did Kashmiri "freedom fighters start" living in Pakistan? Come on....common sense people....

This comment was made by one of your countrymen, not by me.

Oh pls, you send terrorists weeks after your PM's highly successfull visit to India. And now see who is spking abt peace.

Regards
Wilco

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

How the hell did it become your teritory. try to understand YOU DONOT OCCUPY WHAT IS YOURS YOU ONLY OCCUPY WHAT IS OTHERS. you own question answers your question.

Occupy means establishing oneself in an occupied area which is yours and you have not established physical presence there till then.

oc·cu·py (ky-p)
tr.v. oc·cu·pied, oc·cu·py·ing, oc·cu·pies
1. To fill up (time or space): a lecture that occupied three hours.
2. To dwell or reside in.
3. To hold or fill (an office or position).

and it also means:
4. To seize possession of and maintain control over by or as if by conquest.
5. To engage or employ the attention or concentration of

In India's case is the first three, while you wish to use the fourth!

The bottomline is that no matter what is your perception, the verity of the situation is that Indian presence cannot be denied, nor can it be wrested. Pakistan has tried many a time, but has not succeeded.

Take Kashmire as Example + YOU DONOT OCCUPY WHAT IS YOURS YOU ONLY OCCUPY WHAT IS OTHERS.

In Kashmir, the Pakistan Army occupied part of the area of Kashmir. Therefore, the occupation by your definition squarely is that of Pakistan.

I showed you the reality didn't i ?

Your perception.

???

Too bad that:
Govt See War.
Soldiers Fight War
Civilians Suffer from War.


This is what is am trying to tell you. that you should take measures to Prevent the war not the Start one.

No one has started any war.

Nothing could be better than to have civilians around a place and that to foreigners so that there is Peace. Ideal peace measures they are.

 

[shaikh_spair]

We will eagerly wait for the day Pakistan decides to make this mistake (yet again!!!)
WIll you have the decency to send your soldiers in uniform this time, rather than in mujahideen fancy dress costumes?

Jeez....stop trying already. Don't you know when to give up?

yeah this is what you do first occupy any vacant place, try to prove its yours and then wait for some one to give you a lesson. and when every thing goes out of contrl UNO Zinda
Pakistan Army is one of the best army in the world we love and prould of our army. Why india felt to deploy its forces on siachen and became "Ghus Bethey", (sorry if i spelled wrong) to prove that siachen glacier is its territary after thirty seven years, HMMM how quick indians think. as far as lessons of war are concerned history is open and except in 1971 only in east pakistan the whole world is witness who got major success. in kargil indians were killed like a duck shot how ever again its the us uno and wicked polictics that mishaped the facts about kargil war.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Quote:

Just because we went there before you realised, is it India's fault that the Pakistan Army was not upto the mark?

This is no excuse, what will you do if one day we enter into Amritsar before you realize ?? will it mean that your army was not up to mark.

Quote:
I think I shall not pander to your day dreams about Walking into A or B. Go ahead and dream. Dreams are good for mental health so I learn from Readers Digest! I wouldn't know for sure.

I happens some time when you got no answer.

If Walking into Amritsar was such a piece of cake, Pakistan would have done it long ago!
Why give example which are mere dreams?

Defending you country is Very good, but defending it for wrong cause is not good.

Wrong cause to you, right cause for us.

Perceptions!

 

[F.O.X]

The bottomline is that no matter what is your perception, the verity of the situation is that Indian presence cannot be denied, nor can it be wrested. Pakistan has tried many a time, but has not succeeded.

India has also tries many time to infiltrate Pakistani positions they didn't were are also not successful. I didn't said presence of India can be denied, i said they have captured the area by deciving us, & you were continuesly saying Siachin as your part, when it was a Part of Pakistan.

In Kashmir, the Pakistan Army occupied part of the area of Kashmir. Therefore, the occupation by your definition squarely is that of Pakistan.

We did not occupied Kashmir we conquered it, so it is ours.

Too bad that:
Govt See War.
Soldiers Fight War
Civilians Suffer from War.


This is what is am trying to tell you. that you should take measures to Prevent the war not the Start one.

I was also saying the same thing, but you dont seem to understand this & continued saying a very good move.
As i said we should prevent war not to look at the reason to start one.

No one has started any war.

by the steps taken by indian govt, it dosen't look either that they are trying to prevent any.

Nothing could be better than to have civilians around a place and that to foreigners so that there is Peace. Ideal peace measures they are.

Not when the area is not decided.

Regards
Wilco

 

[F.O.X]

If Walking into Amritsar was such a piece of cake, Pakistan would have done it long ago!
Why give example which are mere dreams?

If Pakistan wanted to do it they could have, but we dont want to start any War as we know it is destructive, but India dosen't seems to understand this .

Wrong cause to you, right cause for us.

would you like to elaborate it plz. that how starting a war is right cause for you ??

Perceptions!

ROFL !

Regards
Wilco

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

yeah this is what you do first occupy any vacant place, try to prove its yours and then wait for some one to give you a lesson. and when every thing goes out of contrl UNO Zinda

One does not occupy any old vacant land. The establish presence in areas that is their and others attempt to establish their lien by sending foreign mountaineering expeditions.

Nothing has gone out of control.

Pakistan Army is one of the best army in the world we love and prould of our army.

No dispute on that. Indeed it is! Good for the Pakistani Army!

Why india felt to deploy its forces on siachen and became "Ghus Bethey", (sorry if i spelled wrong) to prove that siachen glacier is its territary after thirty seven years,

That is because Pakistan was trying to establish their lien by sending foreign expeditions.

HMMM how quick indians think.

Thank you.

as far as lessons of war are concerned history is open and except in 1971 only in east pakistan the whole world is witness who got major success. in kargil indians were killed like a duck shot how ever again its the us uno and wicked polictics that mishaped the facts about kargil war.

The whole world is not quite the witness. Even Pakistani commentators are not too sure. I have given a link earlier and I do not wish to open up the issue.

1971 was too much of a rout for any tweaking of facts by Pakistan to prove that it was a great campaign.

In Kargil, Indians were not killed like duckshot. Rather delusionary an idea. More of a response to cover up a failure.

Don't blame the politicians. First, it was said that the terrorists were who entered and then it was established it was the Pak Army and then the Indian Army turned the tables. Since you so readily speak of asking the world, do google on Kargil and see what the world feels!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

India has also tries many time to infiltrate Pakistani positions they didn't were are also not successful. I didn't said presence of India can be denied, i said they have captured the area by deciving us, & you were continuesly saying Siachin as your part, when it was a Part of Pakistan.

One word: Perceptions!

We did not occupied Kashmir we conquered it, so it is ours.

Good for you!

I was also saying the same thing, but you dont seem to understand this & continued saying a very good move.
As i said we should prevent war not to look at the reason to start one.

I said that it was not a good move, but a brilliant move by Sardar Manmohan to allow foreign mountaineering expeditions into Siachen. I find that the Pakistani govt has not taken too kindly toward this move. However, they should realise, as Sardar Manmohan want to bring it home to them, that neither India was too happy about Pakistan allowing foreign expeditions into Siachen before it was occupied. It is because of this reason that India occupied Siachen. Brilliant.

The second point that is politically par excellence is that with western expeditions around, there is very little chance of Pakistan committing any hostile action in this area and thus making Siachen a region of peace!

by the steps taken by indian govt, it dosen't look either that they are trying to prevent any.

Answered just above.

Not when the area is not decided.

Are you talking about Pakistan Administered Kashmir? I agree it is in dispute and nothing has been decided.

If Pakistan 'conquered' that part as you have mentioned in an earlier post (We did not occupied Kashmir we conquered it, so it is ours.), then by your logic that you have been trotting out repeatedly, it is 'aggression'. And again by your logic, it is not yours!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Trekkers going to Siachen stopped in Mumbai​

By Our Correspondent


NEW DELHI, Sept 18: Indian trekkers heading for Siachen were turned back from Mumbai airport after the Defence Ministry halted the expedition, apparently in response to Pakistan’s protest, The Indian Express said on Tuesday.

It said the first civilian trekking expedition to the Siachen Glacier was abruptly “postponed” on Monday evening hours after Islamabad lodged a strong protest saying that any move to open the glacier for tourism would be “incongruous” to ongoing peace efforts between the countries.

Trekkers, who had reached Mumbai airport for a flight to Leh to begin the first leg of the expedition, were told that the trip was off. “The trekkers, who were at the airport with mountain trekking gear and non-refundable air tickets, were not given any reason why the expedition had been called off,” the Express said.

“We have just been given verbal communication that it is not happening now but no new dates have been given. It is too late to even cancel the tickets,” Professor Charuhas Joshi, one of the participants, told the paper over phone.

Some 20 people were scheduled to reach Leh on Wednesday for the first glacial trek to the 16,000-foot high Kumar Post, organised by the Army Adventure Wing.

Sources told the newspaper that the expedition was called off after it came to light that the army had not sought requisite clearances from India’s Ministry of Defence.

“The issue of clearance was looked into by the ministry only after Pakistan lodged a strong protest, warning that Indian plans to open Siachen to tourists could adversely affect the ongoing peace efforts,” the paper said. Pakistan had said the expedition could put the whole process “on its head.”

However, the Indian military said on Tuesday that it would go ahead with plans to allow trekkers to visit the Siachen Glacier, rejecting protests of Pakistan against opening the area to tourism, according to AFP.

The Indian army said Pakistan’s complaints were a “diplomatic affair,” and stressed there was nothing wrong with “a routine adventure” trip.

Trekkers going to Siachen stopped in Mumbai -DAWN - Top Stories; September 19, 2007

So any truth to this? And which Sardar ji is calling the shots here?

 

[F.O.X]

The establish presence in areas that is their and others attempt to establish their lien by sending foreign mountaineering expeditions.

I wonder what is India doing now ??

No dispute on that. Indeed it is! Good for the Pakistani Army!

Tnx.

That is because Pakistan was trying to establish their lien by sending foreign expeditions.

At that time the area was considerd to b Pakistani, so sending expeditions didn't matter much.

In Kargil, Indians were not killed like duckshot. Rather delusionary an idea. More of a response to cover up a failure.

If you pick up the history book you will see it:
With not properly prepared pakistan the death ration in Siachin was 2indian:1pakistni, at that time we were trying to move Indians from low ground & the ratio was 2(indan):1(pak)

in Kargil, the ratio was 8(indian):1(Pak), bcoz pak was on high grounds & india didn't seems to find any way to move them out of there, then they ask Air force to help.

Regards
Wilco

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

If Pakistan wanted to do it they could have, but we dont want to start any War as we know it is destructive, but India dosen't seems to understand this .

It appears that you have not read these campaigns adequate enough to realise that pipedreams cannot be translated into reality.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride as the the English metaphor goes.

In this turbulent history of India and Pakistan, it is only once that something could be work out and that was in 1971. The rest of the time it was mere a slogging match with minor victories here and there for both sides and nothing more!

would you like to elaborate it plz. that how starting a war is right cause for you ??

It was in reply to your:

Quote:
Defending you country is Very good, but defending it for wrong cause is not good.
Wrong cause to you, right cause for us.

In case you want to split hair on that too, defending and not war, Defending is when a war is thrust on you!

 

[F.O.X]

One word: Perceptions!

One Word :ROFL

Good for you!

Thank you.

I said that it was not a good move, but a brilliant move by Sardar Manmohan to allow foreign mountaineering expeditions into Siachen. I find that the Pakistani govt has not taken too kindly toward this move. However, they should realise, as Sardar Manmohan want to bring it home to them, that neither India was too happy about Pakistan allowing foreign expeditions into Siachen before it was occupied. It is because of this reason that India occupied Siachen. Brilliant.

Come on yarr Salim, one hand you say there should be no war, on other you praise steps taken toward it. which is true one plz tell me.

Are you talking about Pakistan Administered Kashmir? I agree it is in dispute and nothing has been decided.

ROFL : when it comes to Pakistan it is a dispute, when it come to India it is their, WAOOO how fair.

If Pakistan 'conquered' that part as you have mentioned in an earlier post (We did not occupied Kashmir we conquered it, so it is ours.), then by your logic that you have been trotting out repeatedly, it is 'aggression'. And again by your logic, it is not yours!

you are mixing my words, when did i said Kashmir was aggression i said Siachin was an aggression. & not only by mine but with every bodies logic it is ours.


Regards
Wilco

 

[F.O.X]

It appears that you have not read these campaigns adequate enough to realise that pipedreams cannot be translated into reality.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride as the the English metaphor goes.

In this turbulent history of India and Pakistan, it is only once that something could be work out and that was in 1971. The rest of the time it was mere a slogging match with minor victories here and there for both sides and nothing more!

well i wonder what would hace happen if we supported the Khalistan movemnt, probably there will be an other country.

You see dreams to make them true not to forget them : this is a Pakistani Phrase.

In case you want to split hair on that too, defending and not war, Defending is when a war is thrust on you!

i am not talking about defending physical boundaries that you do in war, but to defend Physiological boundries that you defend in peace.

Regards
Wilco

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I wonder what is India doing now ??

Your guess is as good as mine!

At that time the area was considerd to b Pakistani, so sending expeditions didn't matter much.

At this point of time it IS Indian territory and so sending expeditions really does not matter either!

If you pick up the history book you will see it:
With not properly prepared pakistan the death ration in Siachin was 2indian:1pakistni, at that time we were trying to move Indians from low ground & the ratio was 2(indan):1(pak)

Please!

in Kargil, the ratio was 8(indian):1(Pak), bcoz pak was on high grounds & india didn't seems to find any way to move them out of there, then they ask Air force to help.

Please.

I was there.

Please read my post in reply on the effects on ballistics in rarefied atmosphere and bombing from air to the statement that Pakistani politicians are to blame and if PAF was used miracles would happen!