Pakistan possible answer against india nuclear submarine

[Super Falcon]

i think pakistan does not require nuke sub we need 12 submarine very new and one thing more if we get nuke submarine it will give our nuke missiles more options to hit india from all the corners and dont forgot that nuke sub of india is onlt threat to pak indian aircraft group is also a threat to us because it has delhi class destroyer, kilo sub and frigates it will be hard to gettting near to it in war and if their aircraft be intact in war PN will have more headache we need more subs to get in near to it and few destroyers to keep indian ships minds on them so our subs can destroy indian aircraft carrier if our navy does it IN backbone will be crushed and morale if we get their aircraft carrier and few subs it will hurt india both ecnomyically and millitrically

 

[Super Falcon]

indian aircraft carrier is a backbone of indian sae fleet destroy it u will get half of IN lie its head on u

 

[Machoman]

India, Punjab.

why do care about my ancestors?

now don't say, just for info!

Exactly just for info!

 

[MastanKhan]

I have a very simple exercise for those who think that a conventional diesel electric sub can take out the Indian SSBN. Here it goes-




Hi,

That was a very simplistic statement---sub warfare is not handled like you stated---nuclear or diesel---the machine that runs the quitest wins---whomsoever has better equipment and ever vigilant electronic operators and crew--will take the first and second shot.

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

Hi,

That was a very simplistic statement---sub warfare is not handled like you stated---nuclear or diesel---the machine that runs the quitest wins---whomsoever has better equipment and ever vigilant electronic operators and crew--will take the first and second shot

the strategic platforms cannot be and should not be compared at all.........sometimes making noise.....also help......the enemy know....that something big is nearby....so it's just like a shark......not many people are attacked by it.....but when u know that is part of ocean contains A BIG WHITE SHARK...people FEAR...it is just to create FEAR .......in the minds..........................after all the territorial water of any country is upto 12 Nauticle miles only....

 

[Myth_buster_1]

lol super falcon.. you made me laugh.. sorry bro...
but hey... nuclear sub does not mean its a NUKE tipped submarine... but actually the whole point is that its powered by nuclear plant.... and bro... even pakistani A-90B AIP is capable of carrying nuke weapons once our sub lauch cruise missile is ready..

 

[Myth_buster_1]

ok guys.. lets keep this thread only (PAK possible answer to indian nuclear sub)... i am kindly asking request from indians to avoid getting into of topic BS.. page 7 is the prime example..

 

[paritosh]

your point is valid but to some extent..

Type-214 has all the nessesery sensors on board to make it comfortably snorkel on the surface.. the most important thing is to keep human fatigue in mind.. can they cope with 100 days of duration under water?? its like.. asking MKI pilots to conduct 72+ hours inflight missions without changing shifts... even if they do... their performance will be very very very bad compared to a pilot who just took off or is in 4-6 hours flight..

what sensors are you talking about mate?
snorkeling is different...to charge the batteries the sub has to resurface...and it is vulnerable then...AIP(air-independent prop.) does help in reducing the freqs of surfacing but only to a certain extent...the sub is slow when it is closer to the surface..it's Sonar signature is enhanced because of the formation of unwanted convergence zones...near it.
as far as the human fatigue factor is concerned...people work in shifts...and when you sign up for the armed forces...you have to bear everything.

 

[paritosh]

Here are some possible answers...This is a sensitive topic therefore I must limit myself here.


1) Invite the Chinese Navy to the Indian ocean (on Pakistan's side) and west of Indian mainland.

2) Build a nuclear submarine with friendly nations such as Turkey and China.

3) Set up a buffer zone that is Nuclear Sub is not allowed within x amount of miles of the Pakistani coastline and or assets.

4) Better get ready to build nuclear bunkers (for population) in Karachi and other cities.



I have said this before I will say it again, the War was declared a long time ago...

why not strive for peace?cheaper option...but some egos might get bruised on both sides.

 

[Screaming Skull]

Hi,

That was a very simplistic statement

That was in response to the several other simplistic statements made before my post and wasn’t meant for a learned member such as you.

---sub warfare is not handled like you stated---nuclear or diesel---the machine that runs the quitest wins---whomsoever has better equipment and ever vigilant electronic operators and crew--will take the first and second shot.

Those in my humble opinion are blanket statements that do not address the main topic at hand. What use are better electronics, stealth and vigilant operators if you can never get in range to destroy your adversary? That is what I wanted to convey from my rather simplistic statements.

A nuclear powered SSBN has literally unlimited endurance, in the sense that it can remain submerged for several months without surfacing even once. Let us assume that the Indian SSBN, INS Arihant has an endurance of 100 days (very conservative estimate). It will carry nuclear tipped ballistic missiles of over 3000km range initially (maybe by 2011-2012). Reports also suggest that the submerged speed is close to 40 knots. In my analysis I will assume it to be 25 knots (1knot=1.85km/hr). Now, with the data at hand we can calculate the total distance the sub can cover in 100 days (to and fro from base). It works out to be 25*1.85*24*100=111000km, i.e. 111000/2=55500km is the maximum distance it can go from base!

So, that suggests, that if it carries a BM of 3000km range, then it can be at least 3000km (min aerial distance) away from its target (let s say a Pak city) effortlessly! So, a Pak conventional submarine will have to cover god knows how many times that distance (since 3000km is the min aerial distance), circumventing other nations’ coasts, islands, archipelagos etc. just to get in range to fire a torpedo at the SSBN. Now, you tell me is that possible with a conventional diesel electric power plant which can offer a range of a few weeks at max? If you are talking about covering such distances with your PAF jets and anti-sub helis, then again they will have to cross so much distance over god knows how many countries’ airspaces, maybe including India. Hence, that option too is ruled. The situation worsens further if India develops missiles of greater ranges (Here the missile range is a limiting factor for the distance that can be potentially covered by the SSBN).

Hence, I will again make the point that I made before, that a nuclear powered SSBN can only be taken out by a nuclear powered attack submarine simply because a conventional sub can never match a nuke sub for its endurance, no matter how advanced its electronics, stealth features or operators are!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

as far as the human fatigue factor is concerned...people work in shifts...and when you sign up for the armed forces...you have to bear everything.

seriously.. god may help you indians....

shifts?? yep... in middle of war zone when this nuclear sub has to keep its location classified will surface and change shifts... if not since super human indians have signed up for their armed force they have to BEAR 100 days of submerged torturing.....
indian stupidity have no bounds..

 

[Screaming Skull]

seriously.. god may help you indians....

shifts?? yep... in middle of war zone when this nuclear sub has to keep its location classified will surface and change shifts... if not since super human indians have signed up for their armed force they have to BEAR 100 days of submerged torturing.....
indian stupidity have no bounds..

Try to understand what he is saying if your intention is to participate in a healthy debate without degrading other members’ point of view.

The Indian SSBN can carry a crew of 100 men who all work in shifts. There is no need for 100 men to work together at any point of time. I don’t know if you have been inside a sub, but I have. Let me assure you that the facilities inside the subs are far better than what you will see in many middle class Indian and Pakistani homes. They have quality chefs who will cook delicious and healthy food, day in and day out, depending on the size of the subs they have spacious bunkers to sleep, gyms to work out and stay fit, TV rooms and several other amenities to keep the crew entertained. So, where is the fatigue factor? And here we aren’t talking about ordinary men, they will be the best and the fittest men of the Indian Navy hand picked to man what might be the country’s biggest strategic asset.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

A nuclear powered SSBN has literally unlimited endurance, in the sense that it can remain submerged for several months without surfacing even once. Let us assume that the Indian SSBN, INS Arihant has an endurance of 100 days (very conservative estimate).

first of all.. to a normal human beings the first question will arise... do humans have unlimited about of endurance let alone in a conjuncted sub?

It will carry nuclear tipped ballistic missiles of over 3000km range initially (maybe by 2011-2012).
Reports also suggest that the submerged speed is close to 40 knots. In my analysis I will assume it to be 25 knots (1knot=1.85km/hr). Now, with the data at hand we can calculate the total distance the sub can cover in 100 days (to and fro from base). It works out to be 25*1.85*24*100=111000km, i.e. 111000/2=55500km is the maximum distance it can go from base!
So, that suggests, that if it carries a BM of 3000km range, then it can be at least 3000km (min aerial distance) away from its target (let s say a Pak city) effortlessly!

what a senseless to say... look... in pak indo context.. such enormous long distance does not matter... in event of war.. PN will try to gain a strategic point by sending few subs armed with cruise missiles on the other side of india (extreme east).. while india will try to blockade PAK in Arabian see which is not that huge of a distance..
in order for this nuclear sub to take full potential out of its 3000km range SLBM they have to get 1500 or so km close to pak coastal area..
and again.... you are diverting the main subject of this Type-214 being the nuclear sub hunter... with your own ego satisfying posts..

So, a Pak conventional submarine will have to cover god knows how many times that distance (since 3000km is the min aerial distance), circumventing other nations’ coasts, islands, archipelagos etc. just to get in range to fire a torpedo at the SSBN. Now, you tell me is that possible with a conventional diesel electric power plant which can offer a range of a few weeks at max? If you are talking about covering such distances with your PAF jets and anti-sub helis, then again they will have to cross so much distance over god knows how many countries’ airspaces, maybe including India. Hence, that option too is ruled. The situation worsens further if India develops missiles of greater ranges (Here the missile range is a limiting factor for the distance that can be potentially covered by the SSBN).

now those who think indians are very intelligent and educated should commit suicide after reading this comic story..

you think NAVAL WARFARE COLLAGE is made for just pass time?? and in event of war... they will say... naaaaaaa. IN nuclear sub is 3,000km away from us... it will be waist of time to catch them so lets just take a nap...
and btw... this is Type-214 we are talking about... its unique fuel cells AIP system can make way pass your estimated guess of just few weeks lol.. in fact it can travel about 90 days..

Hence, I will again make the point that I made before, that a nuclear powered SSBN can only be taken out by a nuclear powered attack submarine simply because a conventional sub can never match a nuke sub for its endurance, no matter how advanced its electronics, stealth features or operators are!

oh please tell those dumb Germans who are so deluded that they can take on russian nuclear subs with their type-212..
i must knock their doors with your very wonderful piece of enlightening post.. please can i plagiarize your work and maybe those germans will be so impressed and offer me a job in their Naval war collage..

 

[zombie]

Question to someone knowleadgeable about submarines - Why dont usually countries keep nuclear tipped missiles(either cruise or ballistic) in a conventional submarine..or do they?

 

[Beskar]

So, that suggests, that if it carries a BM of 3000km range, then it can be at least 3000km (min aerial distance) away from its target (let s say a Pak city) effortlessly!

First get a Ballistic Missile with a range of 3000 KM installed in the Arihant and THEN we'll talk about how far we'd have to go to sink your boat.

Speculations are healthy, but let's not get carried away.