Pakistan needs a Two Child Policy

[Indus Falcon]

بِسۡمِ ٱللهِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ​

When Allah promises that "what you spend in my way, is a loan to me," then why are people scared of 3 or 4 children? Spending on your childrens legitimate needs is one of the best Sadqahs!

The problem is that right from the bottom, to the top, we are corrupt to the core, and are not true Muslims. Are our earnings 100% halal? Then you have nothing to worry about, if not, then obviously your sadqat will not be accepted, and you will keep going in circles chasing your own tail, till death.

We prey on the weak and helpless, instead of helping them. The problem is not with Islam, but with us.
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The Holy Quran says:
Truly, your Lord enlarges the provision for whom He wills and straitens (for whom He wills). Verily, He is Ever All-Knower, All-Seer of His slaves. (30)

And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We shall provide for them as well as for you. Surely, the killing of them is a great sin. (31)
Surah Al Isra


And surely We shall try you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and crops; but give glad tidings to the steadfast, (155)

Who say, when a misfortune striketh them: Lo! we are Allah's and lo! unto Him we are returning. (156)

Such are they on whom are blessings from their Lord, and mercy. Such are the rightly guided. (157)
Surah Al Baqarah
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Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) was very fond of having guests at his house and particularly was hospitable to travelers. He (A.S) took them to his house, gave them food to eat and provided a bed for them to rest. This good attribute of his is described in the Holy Qur'an.


Every morning Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) stood by the main road, near his house, and waited for travelers to pass by. Whenever he saw them, he invited them back to his house to be his guests. It pleased Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) to make other people happy and comfortable.


Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) would everyday bring home at least one guest. If he came across no traveler even for a day, he would become unhappy. Without having a guest, he would not touch food himself.


Once it so happened that no traveler passed that way. Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) would strain his eyes far away to the horizon, yet no traveler was to be seen. This went on for few days, and each evening he would return to his home disappointed.


After three days an old man appeared on a camel. Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) was happy and invited the old man to his home to eat with him, the old man accepted the invitation. The old man and Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) sat to eat and Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) recited Bismillahâ before eating the food, but the old man did not say anything.


Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) asked why he did not remember Allah (S.W.T) before taking his meal. Is Allah (S.W.T) not our Creator, our Nourisher and our Master? Is it not correct to remember Him (S.W.T) before partaking of the food provided by Him (S.W.T)?


The old man said that it was not the custom in his religion. Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) asked him what his religion was. He said that I am one of those who worship fire. Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) was very annoyed and turned the old man out.


As soon as the old man went away, the Angel Hazrat Jibrail (A.S) came to Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) and told Him that Allah (S.W.T) had been feeding this unbeliever for seventy years. Could not Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) tolerate him for even one meal!


Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) felt very sorry for this. He immediately ran after the old man, finally he reached him and persuaded him to return to his house to have food together.
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Once Hazrat Ali (R.A) was found weeping. Someone asked him (R.A): What makes you weep?He (R.A) responded: "No guest has come to me for seven days, and I fear that Allah (S.W.T) has scorned me"
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This is our religion, not what ISIS / Daesh / TTP or some other lunatic preaches. Islam is full of examples of tolerance and forgiveness, the incident at Taif is a very good example. BUT our society is the exact opposite.

On breastfeeding The Holy Quran says:

The mothers shall give suck to their children for two whole years, (that is) for those (parents) who desire to complete the term of suckling, but the father of the child shall bear the cost of the mother's food and clothing on a reasonable basis.
No person shall have a burden laid on him greater than he can bear.
No mother shall be treated unfairly on account of her child, nor father on account of his child.
And on the (father's) heir is incumbent the like of that (which was incumbent on the father).
If they both decide on weaning, by mutual consent, and after due consultation, there is no sin on them.
And if you decide on a foster suckling-mother for your children, there is no sin on you, provided you pay (the mother) what you agreed (to give her) on reasonable basis. And fear Allâh and know that Allâh is All-Seer of what you do. (233)
Surah Al Baqarah

The above Ayah is a direct order to give a gap between children i.e. family planning.
It is my understanding that Islam does not forbid Contraception or family planning, but Abortion and Sterilization are not allowed.

Have as many, or less, kids as you want, but first make them good human beings, don't only send them to the most expensive school you can afford, but spend time with them. Teach them not only right or wrong, but to be exemplary human beings. A good Muslim will be a good human first, he will love his neighbor, respect his elders, have compassion and forgiveness built in to his character. Be a gem of a human, and a great asset to society.

May Allah Almighty guide us all. Only HE truly knows best.

 

[Dawood Ibrahim]

We are getting inspired by t

Pakistan needs to have a 4 child policy, 2 boys, 2 girls. Until you get 2 of each, keep trying!

A diplomatic Answer will be if you can afford it its ok.


BUT Than ALLAH had promised us our RIZQ many years ago he ( ALLAH ) who created us from a tiny drop gives not 3 but 5 times aday food. Alhumdulillah in every situation ALLAH You were my hope

 

[Indus Falcon]

​

How did Chinese meet this challenge, didn't they, successfully for so many years..

So why did China change this policy?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-35208488

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/30/world/asia/china-end-one-child-policy.html?_r=0

 

[Awan68]

Have you been to Sindh and seen the Hari? Have you been to the Kilns in Punjab? Or many farms in KP?
This blind nationalism is part of the reason Pakistan rots

I've been to interior punjab and know their condition , i've not been to sindh yet i know the condition of the people there, im not ignorant about anything and its best if u dont jump to conclusion about me huh??, true nationalists are never blind u need to first understand what nationalism really means, if one advocates that everything is alright he's not a nationalist but an idiot, true nationalists judge their country at every turn but with a positive attitude and never infront of foriegners ifront of who u have to become that idiot who thinks everything is chick, when did i say pakistani's live in heaven??, i just said we are better of than india generally speaking and i pointed out that de populization is not our requirement at this stage our problem is corruption and management and administration...

 

[Panther 57]

So why did China change this policy?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-35208488

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/30/world/asia/china-end-one-child-policy.html?_r=0

Their objective is achieved, now their next objective is to be sole superpower and for that they need manpower for that. Pakistan cannot be superpower for next tens of decades so it should first concentrate on reducing burden on resources. When she reaches the level of potential superpower the policy can be changed. for now to priority is containing the population explosion.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Their objective is achieved, now their next objective is to be sole superpower and for that they need manpower for that. Pakistan cannot be superpower for next tens of decades so it should first concentrate on reducing burden on resources. When she reaches the level of potential superpower the policy can be changed. for now to priority is containing the population explosion.

Lack of resources is not an issue for Pakistan. Corruption and Gross mismanagement is.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Two Child Policy would be a good plan for Pakistan's burgeoning Population Explosion.

 

[Samee Ulhaq]

toba toba...

 

[Panther 57]

Lack of resources is not an issue for Pakistan. Corruption and Gross mismanagement is.

At present it is, irrespective of what the reason may be. It is incorrect to blame politicians alone for this. Each one of us is involved in corruption at our levels, how small it may be.

 

[Logicaldude]

But falling fertility rates is also a function of economic progress. The developed world -- US, Europe, Japan, etc. -- all have declining fertility rates, to the point, that it's falling below replacement rate. This could happen to Pakistan too as it progresses economically. As more people enter the middle class, the fewer children they will have. I'm seeing this in India, where middle class families now have 2-3 kids at the most. Sharp contrast to my parent's generation, both whom have more then 5 siblings a piece.

The three higher middle class and 4-5 lower middle class pakistani families I know all have atleast 4 children.

The usual development corelation does not seem to work for islamic societies like pakistan and middle east etc. Exception to that is less religious and / or more nationalistic societies like Iran and Bangladesh.

These are casual observations about super complex structures. Nobody drag me over coals pls. Id like to hear from @Kaptaan if thinks my observation (rather conclusion, the observation is supported by stats) has any merit.

 

[raihans]

aulaad hona ya na hona sub Allah k ikhtiyar mein hay, western society k influence mein phasay huway log

 

[.]

You don't understand, my friend. When fertility rates decline, they almost never increase again.

According to that theory ,China should not be the 2nd largest economy and every country where "fertile rates" going down should go extinct.Now all these countries you mentioned are not on the decline

You don't get my point ,I'm simply saying You are not elevating the class systems,Now its not about Fertility but rather about rectification.
People are so desperate they flee our Country (Pakistan) Let me remind you that...Again (Illegally)
Guess that makes Pakistanis proud.

Every developing country considers its middle class a strength , Yet in Pakistan do you even have a idea how much frustrated the classes below upper middle are???
They get the worst education,Worst healthcare ,Worst cars and plus they have huge family system with 4 to 6 kids.
Compared that to the middle classes in the north (Chitral,Swat,Gilgit) they're doing better due to relatively smaller population , better healthcare ,A education system that is divided between average to Good (Government schools that don't cost much and Schools like Army public Langlands etc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langlands_School_and_College
The class divide in those parts of Pakistan is also under suffering and dwindling now.Due to a ever growing out of hand population


In Major cities you have the upper class going to Frobels or roots international while the 80% of middle class goes to Government schools.
Its easy sitting in the united states while the ground realities are far worse,People on thread described what measures some of these classes take just to keep alive and I'm not going to mention it.

We are kind of people who see what those scumbags have done to our country and religion. They turned a religion of peace into something feared in every corner of globe. I have yet to meet a Molvi who is not a self absorbed, manipulative and lying bastard.

These are the gems of our society that think that Pakistan has done wonders in the past 70 years due to Invisible hand of Islam from a Progressive country and economy in 1960s to now featuring in some of the worst economic Indicators around the globe.
Had it not been for the sacrifice of 100+ APS kids and raheel sharif they'd still be waiting for teh Mehdi to solve Terrorism.

@AUz TLDR
I read half of that ... let me tell you again that you guys are doing a huge mistake comparing Pakistan to Any country and especially those you compared with (France,Germany,Japan) that have different social values ,Income system hell you can't even compare Pakistan to saudi arabia (Which you did).
Did you seriously try to compare france to Pakistan???
I appreciate some sense you made about 100 to 200 years ,Now let me remind you again that Pakistan is not France ,Germany ,Japan and that we've a huge part of our population that is 18-30 that gives you at least 300 years before you start to terminate a Policy..
Japan is screwed up with the whole fertility rate issue with most of their population becoming Grandpa's ,Last I checked its still going strong.

In western nations a women considers family planning when she chooses to have Children not more than 3,Very few families have more 3 or 5 Children.
The majority in those nations ideally want 2 to 3 children tops, That is how their mind works.
Whereas in Pakistan the minute you worry about this "Fertility rate" Which is absurd to say you can automatically fix this,because the majority of femala don't care about having less children.
Social system of Pakistan is hugely different from all those countries you compared.
See where Pakistan's population went where from 1950s-2016 and see how many problems that brought.

Just for the info--I have a degree from one of the top ten Public university (top 1% of the world) in the United States and my degree deals with issues of nation building somewhat, and hence my above-average command on the topic of demographics.

What can I say ... You owned me.. Ivy league
Btw let me remind you that some of the most respected Scientists of today are worried about a ever growing human population and our countries (Pakistan,India,Bangladesh,Nigeria) are the major contributors .

 

[LA se Karachi]

According to that theory ,China should not be the 2nd largest economy and every country where "fertile rates" going down should go extinct.Now all these countries you mentioned are not on the decline

No. According to that theory, China has missed out (and will continue to miss out) on some economic growth as a result of having a smaller population. And because fertility rates in China have fallen below replacement level, it will also have to deal with an aging population in the coming decades that will put a strain on its economy and government:

And, keep in mind that China is far ahead of Pakistan economically. It will be a long time before Pakistan's economy can be compared to China. It's far more equipped to handle these issues than Pakistan.

You don't get my point ,I'm simply saying You are not elevating the class systems,Now its not about Fertility but rather about rectification.
People are so desperate they flee our Country (Pakistan) Let me remind you that...Again (Illegally)
Guess that makes Pakistanis proud.

Every developing country considers its middle class a strength , Yet in Pakistan do you even have a idea how much frustrated the classes below upper middle are???
They get the worst education,Worst healthcare ,Worst cars and plus they have huge family system with 4 to 6 kids.
Compared that to the middle classes in the north (Chitral,Swat,Gilgit) they're doing better due to relatively smaller population , better healthcare ,A education system that is divided between average to Good (Government schools that don't cost much and Schools like Army public Langlands etc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langlands_School_and_College
The class divide in those parts of Pakistan is also under suffering and dwindling now.Due to a ever growing out of hand population


In Major cities you have the upper class going to Frobels or roots international while the 80% of middle class goes to Government schools.
Its easy sitting in the united states while the ground realities are far worse,People on thread described what measures some of these classes take just to keep alive and I'm not going to mention it.

Pakistan's fertility rate is declining:

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=pk&v=31


Therefore, it doesn't need to institute a two-child policy. Such a policy will likely end up backfiring, and will do more harm than good in the long run. An undeveloped economy slipping below replacement level would be a far greater issue than having fast-growing population right now. Not to mention the social upheaval such a policy could cause.

All the issues you mentioned are not simply a function of an increasing population. They have far more to do with the economy, tax collection, education, and government policy/spending. Resolve those issues, and you will see real improvement. Instituting a two-child policy will not solve much.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Yes one child policy will soon become the biggest source of downfall of China. China will soon have lot more old people than young ones and that is disaster for economy and the country.

This has more to do with people having longer lifespans due to better nutrition and healthcare than population control. Look at Japan, they are facing that problem without ever introducing anything like one child policy. The same is happening in US, they keep pushing the age of retirement for social security every year bcuz there is less young people putting in money and more old people taking it out. This would happen to Pakistan in the long run anyways if our healthcare system ever gets on par with developed countries and people get proper nutrition.

Booming population can delay that inevitability but it can't stop it. It should be kept in mind that population boom is a double edged sword. Over population has many drawbacks that can undo or do more damage to the economy it helped boost earlier.

On topic no 2 child policy is going to happen in Pakistan. Sorry this crap is not allowed in Islam and Muslims prefer Islam over this crap. Secondly we need to control corruption and other problems rather than controlling population.

The risk of over population and corruption are two independent problems. While corruption surely needs to be addressed, I don't see how ignoring other problems would help solve corruption any faster.

And as far as Islam is concerned in this matter. In terms of family planning, I don't recall coming across anything in the Quran that forbids prevention of conception. What is forbidden is abortion but that's a different issue entirely.

aulaad hona ya na hona sub Allah k ikhtiyar mein hay, western society k influence mein phasay huway log

Ja k train track pe late Jao, Marna jeena Allah k haath mein hai.

jis Khuda ne paida kiya hai, us ne aqal bhi di hai. Us aqal ko kabhi istamal ker k dekho.

 

[Zarvan]

This has more to do with people having longer lifespans due to better nutrition and healthcare than population control. Look at Japan, they are facing that problem without ever introducing anything like one child policy. The same is happening in US, they keep pushing the age of retirement for social security every year bcuz there is less young people putting in money and more old people taking it out. This would happen to Pakistan in the long run anyways if our healthcare system ever gets on par with developed countries and people get proper nutrition.

Booming population can delay that inevitability but it can't stop it. It should be kept in mind that population boom is a double edged sword. Over population has many drawbacks that can undo or do more damage to the economy it helped boost earlier.



The risk of over population and corruption are two independent problems. While corruption surely needs to be addressed, I don't see how ignoring other problems would help solve corruption any faster.

And as far as Islam is concerned in this matter. In terms of family planning, I don't recall coming across anything in the Quran that forbids prevention of conception. What is forbidden is abortion but that's a different issue entirely.

Yes even doing family planning on fears of that you would not be able to feed them or there is not not much risk on the face of the earth is not only prohibited but is equal to Shirk. You are considering yourself Raziq. What is the Guarantee after only two Child ALLAH won't destroy your source of income ? What should be done is ending corruption and bringing merit and doing other development rather than trying to do something which in prohibited in Islam and even in long term is dangerous for society.

This has more to do with people having longer lifespans due to better nutrition and healthcare than population control. Look at Japan, they are facing that problem without ever introducing anything like one child policy. The same is happening in US, they keep pushing the age of retirement for social security every year bcuz there is less young people putting in money and more old people taking it out. This would happen to Pakistan in the long run anyways if our healthcare system ever gets on par with developed countries and people get proper nutrition.

Booming population can delay that inevitability but it can't stop it. It should be kept in mind that population boom is a double edged sword. Over population has many drawbacks that can undo or do more damage to the economy it helped boost earlier.



The risk of over population and corruption are two independent problems. While corruption surely needs to be addressed, I don't see how ignoring other problems would help solve corruption any faster.

And as far as Islam is concerned in this matter. In terms of family planning, I don't recall coming across anything in the Quran that forbids prevention of conception. What is forbidden is abortion but that's a different issue entirely.



Ja k train track pe late Jao, Marna jeena Allah k haath mein hai.

jis Khuda ne paida kiya hai, us ne aqal bhi di hai. Us aqal ko kabhi istamal ker k dekho.

Yes ALLAH gave you brain and go read Quran. Once a man came to RASOOL SAW and said that he want to marry a women but in that family women have few children RASOOL SAW face became red with anger and turned his face away and only got relaxed when that guy said I would marry someone else.