Pakistan need its own attack helicopter in order to counter Indian Threat

[Luftwaffe]

Don't mind tanlixiang, Pakistan has always gone for a more stable platform in this case Turkish Helo is is the best option side by side Cobras for the fact that A-129 and its further enhanced variant being developed by Turkey and trials underway is more capable and a tried tested platform for the past 2 decades, perhaps after 2015 Z-10 would be in form to take over it. Chances of Z-10 will come only if Pakistan starts to discuss the replacement of Cobras which is far off for that Pakistan will have to wait for 2020+ and i would fairly think Z-10 would be a better choice by then to replace Cobras.

Pakistan has and will always for a mature platform when it comes to gunship helicopters by the time when China is inducting new helos, Z-10 would be a better product to be inducted in Pak Army. See the example of Cobras an old platform but very effective one.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

The A 129 and therefore the T 129 are more tested platforms but that does not mean it is more capable than the Z 10.

Z 10 General characteristics

Crew: 2
Length: 14.15 m (ft)
Rotor diameter: 13.0 m[5] (ft)
Height: 3.85 m (ft)
Empty weight: 5,540 kg[5] (lb)
Loaded weight: 7,000 kg (lb)
Useful load: 1,500 kg[5] (lb)
Max takeoff weight: 8000 kg (lb)
Powerplant: 2× WZ-9 turboshaft[5], 957 kw (1285 shp) each
Performance

Maximum speed: 300+ km/h[5]
Cruise speed: 270+ km/h[5]
Ferry range: 800+ km[5] ()
Service ceiling: 6,400 m (ft)
Rate of climb: over 12+ m/s[5] (ft/min)
Armament

Guns: 23 mm or 30 mm autocannon mounted on chin turret with grenade launchers, or 14.5 mm Gatling gun
Hardpoints: 4
Rockets: 57 mm, 90 mm multi-barrel unguided rocket pods
Missiles:
Up to 8 ATGM air-to-surface missiles
Up to 8 TY-90 air-to-air missiles
Up to 4 PL-5, PL-7, PL-9 air-to-air missiles
Avionics

YH millimetre-wave fire-control radar
YH-96 electronic warfare suite


Data from TAI T-129 brochure[25] AgustaWestland T-129 Data[26]
General characteristics

Crew: 2 pilots
Length: 14.6 m (47 ft 11 in)
Rotor diameter: 11.90 m (39 ft 0 in)
Height: 3.4 m (11 ft 2 in)
Disc area: 111.22 m² (1,197.25 ft²)
Max takeoff weight: 5,000 kg (11,023 lb)
Powerplant: 2× LHTEC CTS800-4A turboshaft, 1,014 kW (1,361 shp) each
Rotor systems: 5 blades on main rotor
Performance

Cruise speed: 269 km/h (145 knots, 167 mph)
Range: 561 km (303 nmi, 341 mi)
Ferry range: 1,000 km (540 nmi, 620 mi)
Service ceiling: 6,096 m (20,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 14.0 m/s (2,750 ft/min)
Armament

Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) three-barrel gatling-type cannon (500 rounds)
Rockets: 4 pods with
38× 81 mm (3.19 in) unguided rockets or
76× 70 mm (2.75 in) unguided rockets or
12.7 mm (0.50 in) machine gun-pod
Missiles:
8× AGM-114 Hellfire, BGM-71 TOW, Hydra 70, Spike-ER, UMTAS, Roketsan Cirit anti-tank and anti-armor missiles and Sura D/Snora.
4-8× AIM-92 Stinger or Mistral or AIM-9 Sidewinder anti-aircraft missiles

 

[Luftwaffe]

Is there any information Pakistan has tested Z-10 or plans to do so.
Even T-129 is far off till 2015/2016 in my view. The Turkish order for 50 TAI T-129 has a cost of $3 Billion, If i go by the cost it makes a single T-129 along with all its weapons etc $60 Million, here Z-10 Wins when it comes to price.

I would certainly want Pak Army to test Z-10 but they at this time in this field Pak Army is looking towards West.

 

[krash]

What about the Apache procurement, it could be as many as 70-80 units, what can you do about these?? The total combined Indian Armed forces attack helo fleet by 2018-20 will be:
250+ LCH
100+ Dhruv WSI
22(initial order)-80 APACHE (or Mi 28 but unlikely)


+ 300+ LUH/LOH that can be lightly armed.

Baring in mind these are rather conservative estimates And without taking into account unmanned rotary veichles india will soon operate, how does Pakistan seek to counter this, qualitivley or quantity? It doesn't seem that Pakistan can do either.

Well, no offence, but i couldnt find any sense in your post. I believe you are under the impression that to counter Indian attack helicopters we must buy our own attack helicopters.........even though the notion of dog fights between helis seems awesome but its also just as absurd. To counter the Indian helis we need SAMs and MANPADS.......NOT helis.....and on the Pakistan heli procurement plan just sit and relax you'll see things coming soon.
P.s: As far as "It doesn't seem that Pakistan can do either." is concerned ill say "hehehehehe"

 

[farhan_9909]

if we invest in Attack heli R&D then i am sure we will have a operational Attack heli by 2016-17

we can easily get the engine from china or france(like india did)

we need indegenous one

 

[Black Widow]

I've always wondered why Pakistan never reverse engineered the helicopters abandoned by the USSR either during confrontation at the afghan border or around that area. A lot of those types of helis are still in service, which proves that their technology can stll be exploited and improved.
For example the one at Karachi air force museum the engine has been taken out of that one, but I've never heard of Pakistan make an helicopter engine before. Could anyone answer why?

Its a good idea... But if you look at the Pakistan condition, you will find it is highly impossible.. Pakistan has a volatile history.. the struggle of power between politicians , and btwn military-politician affected pakistan's growth...

Pakistan was wrapped in war for its entire life, they didn't get time to create better institutes,better infrastructure... 4 times military coupe, 4 major war with India, 2 times Long war in Afghanistan (10 year war).. lot of internal issue, corruption, immature democracy... how can you think that they can do reverse engineering ????

The only time when there was some hope was Julfikar ali bhutto era... Though he was Anti Indian (and oppressive on baloch) but still I like him.. If he would have ruled 10 more years Pakistan would have been different...

 

[Jigs]

They are different sizes with similar hardpoint options. It would come down to what type of Helicopter Pakistan is looking for. Seeing as they currently operate Cobras a transition into a equally lighter platform that is more maneuverable like the T-129 might be better(considering it is just a little heavier then the cobras that Pakistan has in service but is running two 1300shp engines it is very agile) As the test flights showed it doing backflips and barrel rolls easily and it should be noted it has a very high rate of climb at 14m/s (infact this matches the AH-1Z viper)

 

[IndianArmy]

Well, no offence, but i couldnt find any sense in your post. I believe you are under the impression that to counter Indian attack helicopters we must buy our own attack helicopters.........even though the notion of dog fights between helis seems awesome but its also just as absurd. To counter the Indian helis we need SAMs and MANPADS.......NOT helis.....and on the Pakistan heli procurement plan just sit and relax you'll see things coming soon.
P.s: As far as "It doesn't seem that Pakistan can do either." is concerned ill say "hehehehehe"

I would take that under one condition if SAMS could be Deployed In High Mountain Terrains, And Todays Helicopters cannot be harmed by Manpads as LCH like any other helicopter in its class has advanced Self Protection Suite like IR/Laser missile jammer,Countermeasures dispensing system etc etc... And Such Platforms Would not be used in front line Combat where SAMS could Get Lucky bringing them down...

 

[T-Rex]

Pakistan should work with Turkey & China for the contraction of its own attack helicopter in order to counter Indian HAL Light Combat Helicopter.As you know Pakistan has a very severe lack of Attack Helicopters.We only have 20 Obselete Cobra Gunships.Those Gunships are the primary firepower that has been deployed against Taliban and Al-Qaeda Terrorists. It has worked very well but the severe shortage of these Gunships prevent them from being deployed in a more forceful way.

There are not enough attack helicopters to cover the entire rugged terrain and when our Army moves in, we suffer heavy losses.

Pakistan also require heavy lift or transport helicopters, and should be the 1st priority, as we did lack em during the earth quake crisis.

It is said that producing helicopter is a matter of holding propellers above your head, is it really that simple? Iran is way ahead of Pakistan and India in producing helicopters.

 

[IndianArmy]

It is said that producing helicopter is a matter of holding propellers above your head, is it really that simple? Iran is way ahead of Pakistan and India in producing helicopters.

An Undergraduate Student can make 1st gen Stuffs if DGCA clears him to fly it.... We are talking of Cutting Edge Technologies here, State of The Art !!! .Iran has been making all 1st gen Stuffs ranging from Submarines to Aircrafts...

No Country should have problems if they are sure it suites there doctrine and Iran has varied Intentions and Ambitions but certainly not Technological advancement

 

[T-Rex]

An Undergraduate Student can make 1st gen Stuffs if DGCA clears him to fly it.... We are talking of Cutting Edge Technologies here, State of The Art !!! .Iran has been making all 1st gen Stuffs ranging from Submarines to Aircrafts...

No Country should have problems if they are sure it suites there doctrine and Iran has varied Intentions and Ambitions but certainly not Technological advancement

Iran has reverse engineered the american cobra attack helicopter. Is cobra a first generation helicopter? I don't think so. It may not be as advanced as the apache but it is quite lethal.

 

[IndianArmy]

Iran has reverse engineered the american cobra attack helicopter. Is cobra a first generation helicopter? I don't think so. It may not be as advanced as the apache but it is quite lethal.

And the Purpose of Copying a 1960 era copter in 2011 would be?? Do you think thats Pioneering them to Advancement?

 

[T-Rex]

And the Purpose of Copying a 1960 era copter in 2011 would be?? Do you think thats Pioneering them to Advancement?

Let the indians produce one if they can.

 

[Hindustani]

Let the indians produce one if they can.

HAL Light Combat Helicopter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

HAL Light Combat Helicopter

 

[IndianArmy]

Let the indians produce one if they can.

Why would India want to Copy, when India can not only make one of its own but also buy the best available in international Market?