What's new

Featured Pakistan Navy Type 054AP Frigates - Update, News & Discussion

harbah? Thats a domestic development based off of Babur.
Yes, thanks I meant harbah. So Zarbs on our missile boats, c-802 on zulfiqar class, and then this cm-401 on the Type-54s. So what is harbah for?

What about the incoming western vessels, we know the AD element will be CAMM-ER, what about its Anti-ship teeth?
 
91E5FC87-CD55-4F5B-8F78-5D815220E723.jpeg
CA41B86A-0488-456B-97F7-A17EE875025B.jpeg
 
Yes, thanks I meant harbah. So Zarbs on our missile boats, c-802 on zulfiqar class, and then this cm-401 on the Type-54s. So what is harbah for?

What about the incoming western vessels, we know the AD element will be CAMM-ER, what about its Anti-ship teeth?
harbah is present on azmat class and from land batteries, its got alot more reach than other missiles
 
First Type 054AP FFG "PNS Tughril" has been commissioned in Pakistan Navy.

View attachment 791231
I had to do my own digging for its self defense systems since they were lost in the seas of pages on this forum and I cant find any details.

so for its self defence the weapons include
the 76MM gun on the deck and i noticed one of the two Type 730 CIWS on the port side and one I couldn't notice might be on the aft. giving at least 270 firing arc against incoming low flying missiles or aircrafts and small boats. there is no mention of any decoys system I could find.

it was funny listening to some news commentators who are not only mispronouncing the vessel but also mixing up its SAM system with missile and rocket tubes meant for anti surface and submarine role by suggesting the vertical launched HQ16 is good for surface and ground targets too and somehow that launcher is better than the tilted ones. (why? who knows)
 
Except HQ-16A is old (HQ-16C isn’t in service), the Type 054A cannot guide them all at once properly due to old illuminators, it has old radars and actually has the same amount of VLS as Babur because Babur can pack them better. The CAMM-ER on Babur is a lot more advanced than HQ-16.
I'm curious as to how you reached this particular conclusion??

Babur class has only 12 vls cells so far as we know and you think that is equal to Type 54's 32 vls cells? How? When Babur class can only have one missile per cell, again so far as we know. How exactly does babur pack them better then? are they dual packed or quad packed on Babur?
 
Chinese stuff will cost money. Can our economy handle it? Or are we going Khomeini on this and say, "economics is for donkeys."

😄😄😄 if that happens then we will be only left with inflatable rubber boats and water scooter loaded with fatwas and curses.
one can only wish that our leadership gets its act together and our country starts earning more than its spending.
 
China selling advanced warships to Pakistan is bad news for India – and America

60b8ebd82030270b62344a71.jpg
Tom Fowdy

is a British writer and analyst of politics and international relations with a primary focus on East Asia.

10 Nov, 2021 07:56
618ace3b85f5401bd671c32a.jpeg
China has sold Pakistan a state of the art frigate

Reuters

As the first frigate for Islamabad’s navy was launched this week, Beijing sent a statement of intent that it has various ways and means to stop the US and its allies encircling it.

Over the past several years, India and China have increasingly become geopolitical competitors. While the Galwan Valley border clash last year was epitomized as the biggest trigger, the mutual distrust runs much deeper and wider, not least as the United States has used India as a strategic counterweight to China's growing power, as part of its ‘Indo-Pacific’ strategy.

In response, Beijing has solidified its economic, strategic and military partnership with Pakistan, India's primary adversary.

While China and India continue to trade at a high level, surpassing $100 billion recently, this strategic game is firmly locked in place, and the newest development affirms this.

It has tilted from China feigning neutrality on India-Pakistan disputes, to it being much more explicit in backing Islamabad against New Delhi. Yesterday, China's state run tabloid the Global Times announced that Beijing had “delivered to Pakistan the largest and most advanced warship China has ever exported,” selling them a Type 054A/P frigate built by the China State Shipbuilding Corporation Limited (CSSC).

The PNS Tughril is the first of four frigates being constructed for the Pakistan Navy. The ship is a highly capable platform with large surface-to-surface, surface-to-air and underwater firepower, as well as possessing stealth and surveillance capabilities.

While Pakistan has long been integrated with China's military-industrial complex, this naval deal marks a new milestone, not only in the message it sends to India, but also in being yet another step Beijing is taking to offset Western efforts of maritime military containment around it. These efforts were accelerated with the launch of the AUKUS nuclear submarine deal earlier this year. In doing so, Pakistan's contribution to this contest now cannot be ignored.

On paper, the People's Republic of China has only one true ‘treaty ally’ – a country it guarantees to defend militarily – and that is North Korea, even though its relationship with Pyongyang has not functioned as a complete alliance since the end of the Cold War.

Beyond this, Beijing has maintained a longstanding foreign policy tradition of ‘non-alignment’, which crystalized during the Sino-Soviet split in the 1950s and 1960s and saw Mao Zedong pivot to support the developing world. In the decades since, China has maintained this position, at least at face value, in an effort to not antagonize the United States (which worked for a long period) and to not divide the world into dangerous Cold War blocs.

However, the world is changing. Some commentators, such as Chinese-American political scientistMinxin Pei, have argued that the inauguration of initiatives like AUKUS meant China would “lose” an arms race.

The US has indeed attempted to rally allies against Beijing anyway, with the specific focus being in the maritime sphere, with the ‘Quad’ grouping of India, Australia, Japan and the UK. All of this has involved ramping up naval exercises in the South China Sea and around China's periphery. With China not having as many formal allies, and Beijing’s foreign policy anxiety of ‘encirclement’, the key strategic question for their policymakers has been, “How do we respond to this strategic reality in the maritime domain?”

It is China’s emerging response to this question that shows that commentators such as Pei are being short-sighted. Beijing has moved to utilize a growing number of differing strategic partnerships, inviting other countries into the game to focus on countering specific adversaries where there is a common interest.

For example, this included its first ever joint maritime patrol with Russia last month around Japan. Few contemplated that China would also play the ‘Pakistan card’, giving New Delhi and Washington pause for thought in the western Indian Ocean. The relationship between Beijing and Pakistan, which is often known as ‘China's Iron brother’ is a formal alliance in all but name, tailored for power projection, yet informalized for strategic flexibility.

Away from the military sphere, the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor will become a primary strategic and commercial route to bypass the Indian subcontinent, access the Red Sea and make China's supply routes less vulnerable to maritime attack in the East, and to avoid being “cut off” during any conflict.

Pakistan is a very important military counterweight to India. While the country is regarded in the West for being poor and often unstable, it is wrong to call it weak. Sometimes, the size comparison with an even larger India can make it seem weaker than it is. Pakistan is a nuclear power with the world's sixth largest army and a population of over 220 million. If China can succeed in developing it, it has more economic potential than many countries in the West. And its long running conflicts with India make it almost indispensable to Beijing.

Beijing is drawing in specific quasi-allies, for specific purposes in pushing back against the US-led coalition. Traditionally, Pakistan is a land power, due to the strategic realities of its wars with India in the disputed Jammu & Kashmir territories of the northeast. For a country of its size, Pakistan's navy is tiny. It has just two destroyers, five frigates, and two corvettes. Bar some submarines, the rest are just patrol boats.

The UK's Royal Navy has two aircraft carriers, six destroyers and 12 frigates, while India has more than 150 ships. So what is China's plan? It’s to help build up Islamabad’s navy as a regionally targeted strategic counterweight that ensures that India, the US, and its allies do not gain hegemony over the western Indian ocean. Beijing can then focus its own resources on the South and East China Seas and Taiwan straits, while drafting in other players.

The trend is quite clear. If the US is going to encircle China with foreign navies, then China will seek to counter that by not just building up its own navy, but also enticing other countries to do so too in their areas of interest.

It's easy to dismiss this week’s news as no big deal, ‘China sold a ship to Pakistan, so what’, but it's certainly not true. It marks a strategic shift by Beijing to sell bigger and stronger state-of-the-art ships to de facto allies; it was not willing to do so in the past but circumstances have changed. The more China arms and builds up Pakistan, the more difficult it becomes for New Delhi to focus on joining containment efforts against Beijing, and the weaker its geopolitical hand becomes, as it is bogged down in its own neighbourhood.

For now, it is uncertain as to whether China can upgrade alliances with any other countries, bar its partnership with Russia. Attempting to do so with Iran would rock the boat regionally in the Middle East; they are likewise prohibited from doing so with North Korea because of UN sanctions. But using its informal method of technically non-aligned, strategic partnerships, Beijing has found an answer to the US-led militarization against it, while it continues to ramp up its own capabilities.

 
Last edited:
Just to be clear, there’s been no official or concrete confirmation of CM401 being on these ships apart from some news articles, so what exactly are we going off in that regard?
Plus we saw the mounts and rails in prior photos before induction and they were exactly the same as YJ-12A.

I’d wait for any sort of official or semi-official confirmation before deciding wether it’s CM401 or YJ-12A.

In other news, An additional EW system added on 054A/P, not sure if this is already known, but It's the same R-ESM module we can find on Type 052 C/Ds but isn't installed on chinese Type 054A.
9FE0AC65-41B2-495C-8896-78A37FC94431.png
 
Last edited:
Yes, thanks I meant harbah. So Zarbs on our missile boats, c-802 on zulfiqar class, and then this cm-401 on the Type-54s. So what is harbah for?

What about the incoming western vessels, we know the AD element will be CAMM-ER, what about its Anti-ship teeth?
Harbah is subsonic missle
Harbab utility is it can be launched from small boats with long range and re routing capability as well land attach

Cm 401 is against high value its a ballastic missle

Different missles different utilities
 
This AESA is a good thing but it would be underutilized aboard this vessel. Similar systems like the French NS series, German TRS or Italian Kronos are multi-function sensors. They are either the primary radar aboard smaller ships or act as SAM guidance systems on larger warships where the primary radar is usually a lower frequency, long range 3D search system. All modern SAMs now are compatible with such radars. Here aboard the 054AP, HQ-16 is not dependent on this radar, needing instead a quartet of illuminators. For this vessel, a conventional, lower cost radar like a RAN-40L/LW-08 would have been sufficient.
 
China selling advanced warships to Pakistan is bad news for India – and America

View attachment 792183
Tom Fowdy

is a British writer and analyst of politics and international relations with a primary focus on East Asia.

10 Nov, 2021 07:56
View attachment 792181
China has sold Pakistan a state of the art frigate

Reuters

As the first frigate for Islamabad’s navy was launched this week, Beijing sent a statement of intent that it has various ways and means to stop the US and its allies encircling it.

Over the past several years, India and China have increasingly become geopolitical competitors. While the Galwan Valley border clash last year was epitomized as the biggest trigger, the mutual distrust runs much deeper and wider, not least as the United States has used India as a strategic counterweight to China's growing power, as part of its ‘Indo-Pacific’ strategy.

In response, Beijing has solidified its economic, strategic and military partnership with Pakistan, India's primary adversary.

While China and India continue to trade at a high level, surpassing $100 billion recently, this strategic game is firmly locked in place, and the newest development affirms this.

It has tilted from China feigning neutrality on India-Pakistan disputes, to it being much more explicit in backing Islamabad against New Delhi. Yesterday, China's state run tabloid the Global Times announced that Beijing had “delivered to Pakistan the largest and most advanced warship China has ever exported,” selling them a Type 054A/P frigate built by the China State Shipbuilding Corporation Limited (CSSC).

The PNS Tughril is the first of four frigates being constructed for the Pakistan Navy. The ship is a highly capable platform with large surface-to-surface, surface-to-air and underwater firepower, as well as possessing stealth and surveillance capabilities.

While Pakistan has long been integrated with China's military-industrial complex, this naval deal marks a new milestone, not only in the message it sends to India, but also in being yet another step Beijing is taking to offset Western efforts of maritime military containment around it. These efforts were accelerated with the launch of the AUKUS nuclear submarine deal earlier this year. In doing so, Pakistan's contribution to this contest now cannot be ignored.

On paper, the People's Republic of China has only one true ‘treaty ally’ – a country it guarantees to defend militarily – and that is North Korea, even though its relationship with Pyongyang has not functioned as a complete alliance since the end of the Cold War.

Beyond this, Beijing has maintained a longstanding foreign policy tradition of ‘non-alignment’, which crystalized during the Sino-Soviet split in the 1950s and 1960s and saw Mao Zedong pivot to support the developing world. In the decades since, China has maintained this position, at least at face value, in an effort to not antagonize the United States (which worked for a long period) and to not divide the world into dangerous Cold War blocs.

However, the world is changing. Some commentators, such as Chinese-American political scientistMinxin Pei, have argued that the inauguration of initiatives like AUKUS meant China would “lose” an arms race.

The US has indeed attempted to rally allies against Beijing anyway, with the specific focus being in the maritime sphere, with the ‘Quad’ grouping of India, Australia, Japan and the UK. All of this has involved ramping up naval exercises in the South China Sea and around China's periphery. With China not having as many formal allies, and Beijing’s foreign policy anxiety of ‘encirclement’, the key strategic question for their policymakers has been, “How do we respond to this strategic reality in the maritime domain?”

It is China’s emerging response to this question that shows that commentators such as Pei are being short-sighted. Beijing has moved to utilize a growing number of differing strategic partnerships, inviting other countries into the game to focus on countering specific adversaries where there is a common interest.

For example, this included its first ever joint maritime patrol with Russia last month around Japan. Few contemplated that China would also play the ‘Pakistan card’, giving New Delhi and Washington pause for thought in the western Indian Ocean. The relationship between Beijing and Pakistan, which is often known as ‘China's Iron brother’ is a formal alliance in all but name, tailored for power projection, yet informalized for strategic flexibility.

Away from the military sphere, the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor will become a primary strategic and commercial route to bypass the Indian subcontinent, access the Red Sea and make China's supply routes less vulnerable to maritime attack in the East, and to avoid being “cut off” during any conflict.

Pakistan is a very important military counterweight to India. While the country is regarded in the West for being poor and often unstable, it is wrong to call it weak. Sometimes, the size comparison with an even larger India can make it seem weaker than it is. Pakistan is a nuclear power with the world's sixth largest army and a population of over 220 million. If China can succeed in developing it, it has more economic potential than many countries in the West. And its long running conflicts with India make it almost indispensable to Beijing.

Beijing is drawing in specific quasi-allies, for specific purposes in pushing back against the US-led coalition. Traditionally, Pakistan is a land power, due to the strategic realities of its wars with India in the disputed Jammu & Kashmir territories of the northeast. For a country of its size, Pakistan's navy is tiny. It has just two destroyers, five frigates, and two corvettes. Bar some submarines, the rest are just patrol boats.

The UK's Royal Navy has two aircraft carriers, six destroyers and 12 frigates, while India has more than 150 ships. So what is China's plan? It’s to help build up Islamabad’s navy as a regionally targeted strategic counterweight that ensures that India, the US, and its allies do not gain hegemony over the western Indian ocean. Beijing can then focus its own resources on the South and East China Seas and Taiwan straits, while drafting in other players.

The trend is quite clear. If the US is going to encircle China with foreign navies, then China will seek to counter that by not just building up its own navy, but also enticing other countries to do so too in their areas of interest.

It's easy to dismiss this week’s news as no big deal, ‘China sold a ship to Pakistan, so what’, but it's certainly not true. It marks a strategic shift by Beijing to sell bigger and stronger state-of-the-art ships to de facto allies; it was not willing to do so in the past but circumstances have changed. The more China arms and builds up Pakistan, the more difficult it becomes for New Delhi to focus on joining containment efforts against Beijing, and the weaker its geopolitical hand becomes, as it is bogged down in its own neighbourhood.

For now, it is uncertain as to whether China can upgrade alliances with any other countries, bar its partnership with Russia. Attempting to do so with Iran would rock the boat regionally in the Middle East; they are likewise prohibited from doing so with North Korea because of UN sanctions. But using its informal method of technically non-aligned, strategic partnerships, Beijing has found an answer to the US-led militarization against it, while it continues to ramp up its own capabilities.

The article makes a wrong assumption that china wants to make pakistan an economic and startegic patner


China doesnt care about arabain sea..its most focus on south china sea

Look at CPEC..its real value is less then a drop in bucket of ocean..all of its projects are infact high return projects favouring china (and pakistan, somthing is better then nothing)

The size of grants are less then 1b$.. And concessionary loans around 10b$..
 
Back
Top Bottom