Featured Pakistan Navy Type 054AP Frigates - Update, News & Discussion

[FuturePAF]

Yar kya hum ship k store room main 3,4 missile sparw nahi rakh sakte. Asking on a lighter note [emoji848]

It’s not possible to reload at sea, easily. It would require a crane to be built in and even then it would be tricky. That’s why the load out that is available when the ship deploys is all it can count on. That’s why it’s best to be fitted with the full range of capabilities you can reasonable afford to put on the ship, so you don’t have to send out more ships and coordinate with them, potentially giving away your position.

Having, at the ready, A full set of capabilities (a good mix of of everything) will complicate the enemy’s planning. If the load out is 32 forward VLS, Just 8 larger aft VLS, and 8 box launchers, you could see all of the following on one ship:

4 LACM; that can double as a long range subsonic Anti-ship cruise missile
4 supersonic anti-ship cruise missile
24-30 medium range SAMs (70 km)
4-8 ASROC

If there are Just a modest 8 cell “Large VLS” added behind the funnel:
4 HQ-9 SAMs (doesn’t seem like much, but it can engage a few targets out to 200 km, deterring enemies from closing to within the 70 km range of the medium range missiles); they don’t know how many HQ-9 the ship still has available.
4 ASBM; the ability to take out enemy ships up to and including a carrier, in a coordinated attack with the subsonic and supersonic anti ship cruise missiles; decreasing the need for a fighter to come out from the coast and protect the Type 054A/P or just to break a blockade)

This ship need to carry what it could possibly need, at the ready, at all times.

p.s. HQ-9 has a range of 200km, HQ-9A is 250km, and HQ-9B is 300 km. At that range the missile could knock out an enemy fighter before it can even think about launching its Brahmos at our ship. That deterrence would be well worth it, especially if your trying to prevent an enemy from forming a blockade. The missile might also have a limited ability as an ABM; good at protecting its home port in the even of a sudden missile strike towards the near by facilities.

CPMIEC HQ-9 / HHQ-9 / FD-2000 / FT-2000 Self Propelled Air Defence System

CPMIEC, HQ-9, HHQ-9, FD-2000 , FT-2000, China, SAM, S-300PMU, Surface to Air Missile

www.ausairpower.net

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Will JL-3 destroy subs or ship in the deep seas/oceans at long ranges ???

brother. I mean it. 095 is equipped with JL-3. The range is 12000 km. It can carry nuclear warheads.

I hope you can understand what I'm saying.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

brother. I mean it. 095 is equipped with JL-3. The range is 12000 km. It can carry nuclear warheads.

I hope you can understand what I'm saying.

Brother @FuturePAF is trying to say currently PLAN is using light/ sort range Torpedo on their ships for engaging enemy ships and subs, why you bring JL-3 to his post???

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Brother @FuturePAF is trying to say currently PLAN is using light/ sort range Torpedo on their ships for engaging enemy ships and subs, why you bring JL-3 to his post???

Because your fleet, and even your country, are all within the range of Chinese subs.

Care about your own fleet.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Because your fleet, and even your country, are all within the range of Chinese subs.

Care about your own fleet.

He is just asking what's wrong about that, if he is wrong, than you try to correct him, and this Type 54 A/P we are getting from China, And China/Pakistan is not enemy, why you're so harsh and aggressive/rude???

 

[SBUS-CXK]

He is just asking what's wrong about that, if he is wrong, than you try to correct him, and this Type 54 A/P we are getting from China, And China/Pakistan is not enemy, why you're so harsh and aggressive/rude???

No. I'm not talking about Pakistan. I'm just saying. You can try to attack Chinese warships with submarines. Look at the consequences.

 

[FuturePAF]

Because your fleet, and even your country, are all within the range of Chinese subs.

Care about your own fleet.

You miss understand what I was asking. Also, I was asking this question as a Pakistani looking at Chinese weapons to equip a Chinese made ship for the Pakistan Navy.

China uses short range (15km) , light weight Torpedos on its destroyers and frigates against submarines, when according to @IblinI , China already has the Yu-10 heavyweight torpedo on its submarines (with a range of 40-50 km, I presume).

If China put these heavyweight torpedos on its destroyers and submarines, it would significantly improve their ASW self protection capabilities, if not offensive ASW capabilities.

I ask because Pakistan faces this threat, and may want to buy such a torpedo from China. Each ship should have the capabilities, to the best extent possible, within the budget, be able to defend itself independently, because it may or be possible to call for help.

Remember the Argentinian ship the Belgrano, sunk by the British HMS conquerer. If the belgrano had the means to detect and localize the enemy submarine and fire a torpedo with an equal amount of range as the submarines weapons it may not have been sunk.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

No. I'm not talking about Pakistan. I'm just saying. You can try to attack Chinese warships with submarines. Look at the consequences.

You assume this by yourself, when he said that PN can try to attack Chinese warships??? @FuturePAF is trying to say that our upcoming Type 54 A/P currently lacking a long range torpedos, so he is just asking to all Chinese members do have any long range Torpedos (40 -50 Km in range) in PLAN ships, what's wrong about that???

 

[SBUS-CXK]

You miss understand what I was asking. Also, I was asking this question as a Pakistani looking at Chinese weapons to equip a Chinese made ship for the Pakistan Navy.

China uses short range (15km) , light weight Torpedos on its destroyers and frigates against submarines, when according to @IblinI , China already has the Yu-10 heavyweight torpedo on its submarines (with a range of 40-50 km, I presume).

If China put these heavyweight torpedos on its destroyers and submarines, it would significantly improve their ASW self protection capabilities, if not offensive ASW capabilities.

I ask because Pakistan faces this threat, and may want to buy such a torpedo from China. Each ship should have the capabilities, to the best extent possible, within the budget, be able to defend itself independently, because it may or be possible to call for help.

Remember the Argentinian ship the Belgrano, sunk by the British HMS conquerer. If the belgrano had the means to detect and localize the enemy submarine and fire a torpedo with an equal amount of range as the submarines weapons it may not have been sunk.

You assume this by yourself, when he said that PN can try to attack Chinese warships??? @FuturePAF is trying to say that our upcoming Type 54 A/P currently lacking a long range torpedos, so he is just asking to all Chinese members do have any long range Torpedos (40 -50 Km in range) in PLAN ships, what's wrong about that???

Again. I didn't talk about Pakistan. Suppose there is a conflict between the PLAN and the Indian Navy. Will India throw its poor submarine into battle?

054A participated in joint military exercises in the Baltic Sea. It provides air defense and antisubmarine shields for the joint Navy. This proves that 054A has enough capability. It is a powerful and advanced warship.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Again. I didn't talk about Pakistan. Suppose there is a conflict between the PLAN and the Indian Navy. Will India throw its poor submarine into battle?

054A participated in joint military exercises in the Baltic Sea. It provides air defense and antisubmarine shields for the joint Navy. This proves that 054A has enough capability. It is a powerful and advanced warship.

Don't underestimate the enemy, They have long range Black shark Torpedo (50km) in their scorpion class and they are developing indigenous long range 50 km torpedo for their next gen nuclear SSGN but your destroyers and Frigates relying on light weight short range torpedos (15 km in range) for self defense so @FuturePAF is rights to ask Chinese members that Your PLAN have or will have heavy weight (long range 50 km+) torpedo to counter this threat???

 

[FuturePAF]

Again. I didn't talk about Pakistan. Suppose there is a conflict between the PLAN and the Indian Navy. Will India throw its poor submarine into battle?

054A participated in joint military exercises in the Baltic Sea. It provides air defense and antisubmarine shields for the joint Navy. This proves that 054A has enough capability. It is a powerful and advanced warship.

No problem, Let’s say we misunderstood each other. No hard feelings.

Now to your scenario. First off, I agree the type 054A is a formidable ASW platform, which will make the following situation even more relevant.

Let’s say the Indians send one of their submarines to the Andaman Islands to keep an eye on Chinese warships going by, on the way to an exercise near Djibouti.

The Chinese Type 054A could be conducting surveys of the sea floor along the way, deploying unmanned underwater vehicles and using its own sonar, while the ship’s helicopters could be practicing search and rescue operations a few kilometers away from the ship, dropping objects into the water. All relatively innocent exercises, but unbeknownst to them, there is an Indian submarine lurking in a thermal layer, 40 km away and is not picked up by the Frigate.

Now, suppose the Indian submarine captain mistook those UUVs as torpedos, and the helicopter operations as the Chinese hunting for his sub. The Indian officer, in what he will later claim as self defense, launches two Heavyweight torpedos towards the Chinese frigate. The Chinese ship detects the launches and takes evasive maneuvers, deploying soft kill decoys and hard kill defenses, eventually defeating the two torpedos.

The captain of the frigate has a choice, to now actually hunt the submarine or turn around. The captain decides to hunt this threat with his helicopters. The Chinese captain knows the hostile was approx 40 km away. The Chinese ASW helicopter search makes the Indian captain think he is still being hunted, and closes the distance and launches three more heavy weight Torpedos, and the he takes evasive action and dives in order to avoid being detected. The helicopters launch their onboard lightweight torpedos but fall short, and are not able to take out the sub. Now the submarine is approx 35 km from the Chinese frigates according to the frigates towed sonar.

... the frigate knows where the submarine is... but the frigate only has lightweight torpedos. She has the ET-80 rocket assisted torpedos, but they don’t have the range to target the submarine.

... the captain of the frigate wished he had heavyweight torpedos on board to fire back, as he takes evasive maneuvers to dodge the three enemy torpedos, when the submarine fires a further one torpedo. The frigate is able to dodge two of the torpedos through soft and hard kill methods, but eventually is hit by the remaining two torpedos.

... loss of life is high, as the world media starts reporting the news, loss of face is evident.

.........now if the Chinese frigate had heavyweight torpedos, it could have retaliated, firing back against a threat, more likely surviving, as the enemy submarine would have ran, knowing its location was exposed. The Chinese captain could be safe and wondering why this was happening later, rather then a martyr over a misunderstanding.

This is the risk of leaving a vulnerability gap open.

 

[iby32]

I am waiting for the day when beast will arrive home

 

[xuxu1457]

Well nice to see at least the Chinese Ship Order Progressing On Time

IT will be always on time for Chinese ships, A 40,000-ton 075 amphibious assault ship was also launched by the same ship on the same day.
According to the Chinese information I have seen, this 054p It's an upgraded version of the 054A.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Pakistan's future is in JV's---because it has reached the minimum design / manufacturing capability.

The question arises---why would pakistan want to invest in new technologies when China and turkey are doing so---. It is a pure wastage of funds---.

Look at Israel---it is still buying from Germany and france and USA---the major items---and has its focus deep into EW packages---the ones that would really really make the difference.

So---pakistanis need to learn and UNDERSTAND---glory is not in manufacturing the big item---when you colleagues are manufacturing it---.

The glory is manufacturing the small EW gadget that turns the tables around---.

Between china Turkey & pakistan---only pakistan has a combat experience against a very advanced enemy in real times---.

That experience in itself is worth a few billion dollars by itself---.

China has a great assembly line experience in manufacturing the 054's---and same with Turkey regarding the Milgems---.

So---why does pakistan need to travel towards redundancy---when there is another venue wide open for development---.

Hi,

We have a great example of JV in front of us---Th JF17---a very successful JV---.

But that is not it---while doing this JV---we ended up assisting our ally china with 50 plus essential upgrades and adjustments on another aircraft---would it have happened if there was no JV for JF17---I don't think so---and then what about input in the upper tier projetcs.

The JV's are not central to the project that you are working with you partners---there are other project that are being worked on---even though they are not yours---but still you offer your input---or your partners offer their input---.

No problem, Let’s say we misunderstood each other. No hard feelings.

Now to your scenario. First off, I agree the type 054A is a formidable ASW platform, which will make the following situation even more relevant.

Let’s say the Indians send one of their submarines to the Andaman Islands to keep an eye on Chinese warships going by, on the way to an exercise near Djibouti.

The Chinese Type 054A could be conducting surveys of the sea floor along the way, deploying unmanned underwater vehicles and using its own sonar, while the ship’s helicopters could be practicing search and rescue operations a few kilometers away from the ship, dropping objects into the water. All relatively innocent exercises, but unbeknownst to them, there is an Indian submarine lurking in a thermal layer, 40 km away and is not picked up by the Frigate.

Now, suppose the Indian submarine captain mistook those UUVs as torpedos, and the helicopter operations as the Chinese hunting for his sub. The Indian officer, in what he will later claim as self defense, launches two Heavyweight torpedos towards the Chinese frigate. The Chinese ship detects the launches and takes evasive maneuvers, deploying soft kill decoys and hard kill defenses, eventually defeating the two torpedos.

The captain of the frigate has a choice, to now actually hunt the submarine or turn around. The captain decides to hunt this threat with his helicopters. The Chinese captain knows the hostile was approx 40 km away. The Chinese ASW helicopter search makes the Indian captain think he is still being hunted, and closes the distance and launches three more heavy weight Torpedos, and the he takes evasive action and dives in order to avoid being detected. The helicopters launch their onboard lightweight torpedos but fall short, and are not able to take out the sub. Now the submarine is approx 35 km from the Chinese frigates according to the frigates towed sonar.

... the frigate knows where the submarine is... but the frigate only has lightweight torpedos. She has the ET-80 rocket assisted torpedos, but they don’t have the range to target the submarine.

... the captain of the frigate wished he had heavyweight torpedos on board to fire back, as he takes evasive maneuvers to dodge the three enemy torpedos, when the submarine fires a further one torpedo. The frigate is able to dodge two of the torpedos through soft and hard kill methods, but eventually is hit by the remaining two torpedos.

... loss of life is high, as the world media starts reporting the news, loss of face is evident.

.........now if the Chinese frigate had heavyweight torpedos, it could have retaliated, firing back against a threat, more likely surviving, as the enemy submarine would have ran, knowing its location was exposed. The Chinese captain could be safe and wondering why this was happening later, rather then a martyr over a misunderstanding.

This is the risk of leaving a vulnerability gap open.

Hi,

They don't mistake those UUV with torps---.

You are just winging it left and right---you are totally clueless to what you are writing---.

 

[FuturePAF]

Might take on a name from the Tariq-class destroyers since that's what they're replacing

wholeheartedly agree. I had the pleasure to see the PNS Tippu Sultan when it came to the 2005 New York Fleet Week. The crew and especially the SSG on board displayed a very fit ship. There was a Quran Ayat emblazoned just behind the SAM battery and below the bridge, but I haven’t been able to find the picture I took.

but the Ayat was Sura Anfal verse 12

Surah Al-Anfal - 12 - Quran.com

˹Remember, O Prophet,˺ when your Lord revealed to the angels, “I am with you. So make the believers stand firm. I will cast horror into the hearts of...

quran.com

One key line in the Ayat, that stuck with me and brought home the mission of the ship; striking at every one of the enemy’s “joints”.

PNS Tippu Sultan

PNS Tippu Sultan

defence.pk