Pakistan Navy: The Phoenix Rises

[ConcealCarry]

You are waiting for what? for me to disclose classified info? yeah keep waiting

Hi dear @ConcealCarry
Again,instead of using a language that aptly describe your academic qualifications why don't you try to back your claim with something substantial or something that involves published literature?
Oh I'm waiting!

Thank you for your advice, we'll keep that in mind.

building a reliable miniature nuclear reactor is a challenge
soviets had a lot of accidents

 

[amardeep mishra]

You are waiting for what? for me to disclose classified info? yeah keep waiting

No,I am waiting for you to back your claim with something substantial and not rumour. How difficult could it possibly be?

 

[amardeep mishra]

Do you speak for state of India or US or CIA? If they knew they won't be telling you. Keep asking the think tanks.

So how do you think pakistan "hides" a naval reactor?Lets shed some light on this,Oh wait,I hope I didnt ask anything confidential?

 

[Blue Marlin]

So how do you think pakistan "hides" a naval reactor?Lets shed some light on this,Oh wait,I hope I didnt ask anything confidential?

no nothing confidential just evidence to show they have said reactor.
can you show close up ics of indian reactor? and the russain "consultants" too please

 

[wiseone2]

True, never forget you were once our slaves

what slaves ??
Ruling Delhi for 500 years does not make you masters of whole of India

 

[ConcealCarry]

Like America knew about our nuclear capability or test preps in 1998? and what about india? what does india sell?

@Bilal Khan 777
So you're trying to say that pakistan has been operating a naval reactor for quite some time now without America or india knowing about it?Oh,so you think itz like a car that you can hide inside a garage?Anyways,if there was really such a thing,then how come it was never reported in reputed international think tanks from carnegie melon to American intelligence agencies CIA etc.I hope you understand we are talking about a naval reactor and not some small vehicle etc.
I am just a bit sceptical about pakistan designing a miniaturized naval reactor especially when pakistan hasnt designed a power reactor by herself. It took india almost 2 full decades from drawing board to integrating the rector to hull especially when india have had far more rich experience of operating and designing nuclear power plants. We are talking about design of reactors like fast breeder,AHWR,CHTR and LWR and yet it took so much time and efforts.

and how do you test launch a nuclear reactor?

My dear @Bilal Khan 777
How can you keep a full blown reactor concealed for decades?Dont you think if there was a naval reactor operational then the world would have known about it?You see what i dont like is un-necessary drooling over un-substantiated rumours. I would be fine if there were hard facts,scientific literature,tests launches etc--but since there is no such thing ,i would rather wait than indulging in speculations.


@Oscar
My dear,Oscar,How about you prove me wrong based on hard facts instead of speculations?Or speculations is what is taught as a part of broader curriculum in pakistani technical education?I thought you're a person of reason and since you have experience,you would KNOW the technical complexities involved--but,I am afraid,sometimes the way you talk about R&D projects make me wonder.Anyways,back to the topic,How about we discuss something concrete instead of speculations based on statements of random analysts or officers!
I remember listening to a lecture delivered by none other Gen Khalid Kidwai and I was amazed by the sheer ambiguity and opaqueness with which he was talking about "second strike" capability. In contrast to the lecture delivered by Head of our SFC,he was very ambiguous. But keeping everything aside,when we get down to analysing feasibility of a project,we do consider the established capacity of a particular country to undertake a task of a particular nature. Now what you have ignored(in your last paragraph--as I am only talking about the last para alone and not your entire article) is the established R&D capabilities and industrial maturity of your country to undertake a nuclear submarine project.You have also not provided the basis of your thinking apart from the statements from some random officials and analysts. Kindly do explain how and why do you think pakistan can design a sea going LWR especially when it has practically no experience of designing nuclear power plants.

we use a simple umbrella

So how do you think pakistan "hides" a naval reactor?Lets shed some light on this,Oh wait,I hope I didnt ask anything confidential?

 

[amardeep mishra]

can you show close up ics of indian reactor? and the russain "consultants" too please

Hi dear @Blue Marlin
I thought you'd have done your homework,but no problem,I will point it out for you.

Thats the reactor of arihant. India is much more transparent vis-a-vis pakistan in her research efforts.BARC did acknowledge taking russian consultancy in making the reactor sea worthy. Now I am sure you wouldnt possibly know what it means.But just for the sake of it,reactor is completely indian,all the IPRs belong to BARC and the russian help was primarily to make it sea worthy--especially in certain aspects of metallurgy and reactor capable of operating in rough seas. The help was also sought to enable the indian design to rev upto full power in very short span of time--this is drastically different from land based reactors that BARC has designed till now--this help was very significant.

 

[amardeep mishra]

the only thing substantial and non-classified to support my claim is my dick

@Oscar
I just hope you're paying attention to this gentleman!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Nice machines , 10-20 of these would do Navy good

But the surface fleet has to increase , it is naive to say that we should not build a strong NAVY

4-5 Surface ships from China or/and Turkey should help bring balance to our Surface fleet

I think we returned 4-5 ships back in 90's so we need to fill that gap back in order to balance the incoming Aircraft carrier threat from Enemy India

Had we not returned the 4-5 Ships (due to lease ending) we would have had a decent surface fleet for minimum deterrence

• During 90's we had a loss of 4-5 Ships (We returned ships)
  
• The the whole OHP frigate deal getting 1 out of 5 ships was again a loss

and I do we believe we did turn down offer to take 1-2 Destroyer ship god knows why
So collectively we lost possible 8-9 Ships which otherwise would have been part of Pakistan Navies

So we need to make room for 8-9 Surface ships divided between Turkey and China , may be see how the Indonesian ships are doing


Order of
4 - F22P (Enhanced) from China
6 - Turkish Corvettes
1 - Try out 1 Indonesian ship

Should help balance out the ships we lost between 90 and recently due to missing out on OHP frigates

 

[Blue Marlin]

Hi dear @Blue Marlin
I thought you'd have done your homework,but no problem,I will point it out for you.View attachment 342582
Thats the reactor of arihant. India is much more transparent vis-a-vis pakistan in her research efforts.BARC did acknowledge taking russian consultancy in making the reactor sea worthy. Now I am sure you wouldnt possibly know what it means.But just for the sake of it,reactor is completely indian,all the IPRs belong to BARC and the russian help was primarily to make it sea worthy--especially in certain aspects of metallurgy and reactor capable of operating in rough seas. The help was also sought to enable the indian design to rev upto full power in very short span of time--this is drastically different from land based reactors that BARC has designed till now--this help was very significant.

you did a bit more than getting russain consultants. you got a nice russain nuclear sub too.
anyway. what your asking is out right weird. we NEVER show pics of our sensitive kit same applies to france, the united states, russia and certainly and obivously china. and india here is the golden boy. mr i have done it and heres a pic too.
i have a really good idea. since you live closer to pakistan then i do why dont you just go there and ask.
i get you being sceptical, but one thing i have learnt is never under estimate the enemy. thats why i dont disregard whats being said but i dont let it consume my thinking
mushy saying they got to work in 2012, this would suggest they have a good design, but it does not take 4 years to develop a reactor. before a testbed is built a cad model would be built first [obivously]

 

[amardeep mishra]

anyway. what your asking is out right weird. we NEVER show pics of our sensitive kit same applies to france, the united states, russia and certainly and obivously china.

You did not get my point.it's alright ,maybe try reading my comment once again. There are a plethora of Russian,American and French naval reactors you can find out.in fact I've got a huge book on Soviet/Russian naval reactors right on my desk here.You see, the technical parameters of most modern Russian and American reactors are ofourse closely guarded secret but am I asking technical specifications of their(Pakistani) reactor?-NO! I'm merely asking for a either a pic,statement from their nuclear engineering division, their navy or govt about the same.my point is simple-"how would you hide a land based prototype of naval reactor"?--maybe you can answer this question?

I don't give an Indian's arse for what you think about my education or how it reflects research in my country

 

[The Accountant]

Bu

I do agree with you, still how many submarines will they be able to commit to one front? That is where Pakistan wins, it has most of its subs for defense and a few for offense..

But in case india will have just one front ... Asuming something else is stupidity ...

 

[Modagudu]

With 100 major Ships they easily can bring 70 % of them they have friends like Vietnam and others so using fleet of that area won't be an issue for India

Submarines are dead fish once they are detected.

 

[ghazi768]

My knowledge of naval warfare and submarine warfare is limited. But in interest of general readership here writing what I have heard or read in general.

Nuclear strategic subs have some pros and cons as well. They can remain submerged for very long times conditional to stores of foods and other necessities they can carry and the length of duty the crew is deemed to carry on while still having sound psychological, emotional and physical health. Which unfortunately is not considered to be too long duration because of the environment they have to operate in. This results in maintaining complex logistics operations and if you are planning to operate in many oceans a set of bases. During cold war both US and soviets needed to maintain a set of far off bases to allow their nuclear subs to operate the world over. If we plan to operate a deterrent force out of Indian ocean lets say in Pacific and Atlantic, is it possible? do we have the economic/financial and military might to even secure one base in each to operate from?

Also because of being nuclear, they do generate low frequency sound radiation which is more detectable at distance using passive sonar arrays and also tend to be quite unique allowing categorisation as well. They also tend to generate thermal radiation and cannot avoid this as being nuclear, which also makes it impossible for them to remain stationary unless they are under the Arctic ice cap (which is by the way how most of soviet strategic subs operated but than required large sets of hunter-killer escorts to keep US hunter-killers away). Even if they remain stationary they still generate low frequency acoustic radiation.

Diesel-electrics when stationary from what I have heard from an expert submariner is like 'pin drop silence'. In such states you can only hunt them with active sonars which being high-medium frequency have 5-10 nm range at best. And also means that unless you are right on top of that sub, that sub will detect you far more away and be able to take evasive actions to avoid detection. DEs main weakness from second world war onward was need to recharge batteries, this needed them to at-least snorkel periodically which increased chances of detection. Better battery technology and AIPs have changed this (but all AIPs are not created equal and do tend to increase LF acoustic radiation).

Now if you do not give a damn about power symbols and or going around the world in 80 days and have a large and very deep ocean just besides you. What will you do? plan on operating in Pacific or Atlantic or Arctic?

What I "suspect" we'll have get is 4 + 4 resulting in 7 + 4 and increased in future more especially HK. With VLF infrastructure ready and resulting 'talking' within different participants and with Command, 3+1 is a hell of a tag team.

 

[Blue Marlin]

You did not get my point.it's alright ,maybe try reading my comment once again. There are a plethora of Russian,American and French naval reactors you can find out.in fact I've got a huge book on Soviet/Russian naval reactors right on my desk here.You see, the technical parameters of most modern Russian and American reactors are ofourse closely guarded secret but am I asking technical specifications of their(Pakistani) reactor?-NO! I'm merely asking for a either a pic,statement from their nuclear engineering division, their navy or govt about the same.my point is simple-"how would you hide a land based prototype of naval reactor"?--maybe you can answer this question?


Oh it sure does.You don't have to tell me what classified means. Unlike a lot of Pakistanis living in west and making tall claims I happen to live in India and have worked on some of the programs. Thankfully things are way more transparent on this side of the border and that's why I can explain what is going on.

old soviet reactors specs are available. but what i should have said is current designs, my mistake and i accept it. no book is gonna give you that much information on current/future designs. the french are a tad bit open on the aspect of power. they give a good number. where as some countries give example to how big a city it can power. like our astute reactors can power a city the size of southampton.

i know the pakistan president said at the time [2012] there developing a nuclear reactor. thats all there is.
pakistan is not as open as india and asking for such information is outrageous.

its like me asking the mod to find out where are they testing the new reactors or where they store surplus trident missiles? they will say no and keep you under the radar.

oh and as for your doubts on my true nationality. yeah i dont care, and if i recall its not the first time to brought this up. mod looked into this a long time ago and if they think im a false flagger i would have been banned long ago. if you look at my previous post i have mocked pakistan/pakistanis.
so yeah you should go to pakistan. heck make a holiday of it