Featured Pakistan Navy ATR72 at Mönchengladbach Germany for conversion into a Sea Eagle

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Are you able to read properly? The 2,222km is transit from P-8 base to the loiter area, it has nothing to do with submarines. It could be that P-8 has to fly from Indias coast to Nicobar Islands were it will loiter. Please do not know make comments on things you simply do not understand

The sections highlighted in the comment above are an example of why discussions become acrimonious and at times even turn extremely personal and abusive. The highlighted comments add nothing to the discussion in terms of supporting or debunking the technical aspects of the claims being discussed.

I would like to suggest that everyone refrain from such jibes and focus solely on the technical aspects of the argument.

This is not a warning or an admonishment, just an observation.

Thank you

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

What about other equipments like Radars and Sensors? Remember I tagged you in a post of mine where I mentioned 3 different types of Radars/Sensors in P8

I don't think the PN would be able to match the P-8's sensor suite. Pakistan just doesn't have access to those types of subsystems unless equivalents are available and on offer from Italy/UK. For now, I think anything we see on the RAS-72 is a safe bet for the LRMPA.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

I don't think the PN would be able to match the P-8's sensor suite. Pakistan just doesn't have access to those types of subsystems unless equivalents are available and on offer from Italy/UK. For now, I think anything we see on the RAS-72 is a safe bet for the LRMPA.

How are Chinese and Turks in things related to MPA?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

How are Chinese and Turks in things related to MPA?

For now, I'd say the Turks are good in terms of the ESM/EW, avionics, weapons (torpedoes, anti-ship missiles), and other inputs. They probably can come up with an LRMPA solution (using a COTS jet) if they really wanted one, but might be waiting for their industry to come up with a few more key systems (e.g., main radar).

The Chinese can probably come up with their own, end-to-end, but it seems they're mostly focused on deploying it through one of their turboprops. I don't know if the Chinese would match the same sensor suite as the P-8.

We have to realize that the P-8 is really unique from a design standpoint as it involved a deep modification of the Boeing 737 and a sensor suite the US spec'ed and designed from the ground-up.

The PN doesn't have those resources. I would say we would be super lucky to even get OEM support (in this case, Embraer) to speed-up the design and integration of the subsystems and weapons. The latter will be key, not a joke adding hardpoints to a jet airliner, especially for torpedoes and anti-ship missiles.

But I wouldn't hold my breath on anything more than the minimum. I would be very, very surprised if Embraer got on board and did as much of a deep mod of the Lineage 1000/E195-E2 as say Boeing did for the 737 NG (e.g., add internal bay for torpedoes, etc). I doubt we'll be able to go that far.

 

[Pandora]

The sections highlighted in the comment above are an example of why discussions become acrimonious and at times even turn extremely personal and abusive. The highlighted comments add nothing to the discussion in terms of supporting or debunking the technical aspects of the claims being discussed.

I would like to suggest that everyone refrain from such jibes and focus solely on the technical aspects of the argument.

This is not a warning or an admonishment, just an observation.

Thank you

Exactly when argument comes to a stalemate then conclude it by simply respecting others opinion rather than leaving bitter taste in your mouth.

 

[Falcon26]

Basically. It'd be too early to say anything, but the subsystems they're using on the RAS-72 should be available for this project too. The only real addition would (or should) be a MAD.


@Hassan Guy @Falcon26 @Akh1112

So other than perhaps range and firepower, what new capabilities will the new LRMPA bring?

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

I don't think the PN would be able to match the P-8's sensor suite. Pakistan just doesn't have access to those types of subsystems unless equivalents are available and on offer from Italy/UK. For now, I think anything we see on the RAS-72 is a safe bet for the LRMPA.

@Falcon26

 

[Falcon26]

@Falcon26

Thanks.

My question was in relation to the ATRs

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

So other than perhaps range and firepower, what new capabilities will the new LRMPA bring?

The key gains would be range, payload, and speed. I imagine the PN will seek a MAD for the LRMPA though, so that would be the additional sensor. Can't speak to anything else, but if there's enough room in the new aircraft, I think they can look to experiment/try-out other types of sensors. Not sure as to what those sensors can be, but perhaps a higher-output AESA radar? Maybe add ECM/DRFM to the ESM suite (so it can double as a jammer)?

 

[HRK]

For the concerned here let me simply say for PN LRMPA, no SWORDFISH, no AIRBUS, no BOIENG, no P8A, no Chinese or Japanese etc.

The aircraft PN has selected is EMBRAER Lineage 1000 series.

That should be enough for now

But is it ITAR free .... ???

I think it was one the requirement of the issued tender ....

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Apart from the EW systems, Aksungur will be put into service this year as a cheap sea patrol aircraft concept. Sarper has ISAR mode and is actively used.

https://www.tusas.com/urun/aksungur
https://www.aselsan.com.tr/SARPER_Sentetik_Aciklikli_Radar_4374.pdf
http://www.millisavunma.com/orka-hafif-torpido/

 

[Kabotar]

IMO if there had been another option, the PN wouldn't have gone the route of funding an original solution.

Why not just get GlobalEye from Saab considering that IN have aircraft carriers the AWACS component might be useful.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Why not just get GlobalEye from Saab considering that IN have aircraft carriers the AWACS component might be useful.

GlobalEye is an AEW&C. Saab's MPA solution was the Swordfish, but the PN evidently go for it. I guess it's either because Sweden said 'no' or it didn't meet the PN's needs.

 

[Cookie Monster]

For now, I'd say the Turks are good in terms of the ESM/EW, avionics, weapons (torpedoes, anti-ship missiles), and other inputs. They probably can come up with an LRMPA solution (using a COTS jet) if they really wanted one, but might be waiting for their industry to come up with a few more key systems (e.g., main radar).

Italy and Spain usually don't cause any issues selling their subsystems to Pak...I'm not aware of any examples in the past few decades where they denied Pak whatever Pak was looking to buy. Germany has sold some stuff to Pak...but is not as forthcoming as the Italians...still I think for subsystems of an LRMPA...if Pak is paying they would be forthcoming. Britain post Brexit might be more willing to do business. France would probably be the hardest to do business with considering that potential still exists for India to add on more orders of Rafales. Still though I think between countries like Italy, Spain, Britain, Germany, and Turkey(no issues there)...Pak should be able to source a large majority of avionics, sensors, torpedoes, etc.

The Chinese can probably come up with their own, end-to-end, but it seems they're mostly focused on deploying it through one of their turboprops. I don't know if the Chinese would match the same sensor suite as the P-8.

We have to realize that the P-8 is really unique from a design standpoint as it involved a deep modification of the Boeing 737 and a sensor suite the US spec'ed and designed from the ground-up.

The PN doesn't have those resources. I would say we would be super lucky to even get OEM support (in this case, Embraer) to speed-up the design and integration of the subsystems and weapons. The latter will be key, not a joke adding hardpoints to a jet airliner, especially for torpedoes and anti-ship missiles.

But I wouldn't hold my breath on anything more than the minimum. I would be very, very surprised if Embraer got on board and did as much of a deep mod of the Lineage 1000/E195-E2 as say Boeing did for the 737 NG (e.g., add internal bay for torpedoes, etc). I doubt we'll be able to go that far.

As per wikipedia...there are only 28 units built(as of 2018) of the Embraer Lineage 1000. If Pak is paying the cost of integration of the subsystems on this platform...if pitched right to them...I think they should be forthcoming in providing support.

The reason being that with swordfish being axed...it reduces the options of LRMPA jets to pretty much the American P8(since Chinese ones are turboprops). If the Embraer Lineage based LRMPA materializes...it would serve as a lower cost(as compared to P8) but still capable LRMPA option for many countries that want to steer away from US(and don't want to go with Chinese option). This could mean more sales for that jet...making it more appealing for Embraer to be supportive of such a modification(especially if another country is paying for such modification).

 

[PanzerKiel]

A complete rebuilt Seaspray 7000 version replaced the earlier mechanically scanned feed horn with a active electronically scanned array that provides the elevation scanning and fine pointing of the azimuth using beam steering.