Pakistan Navy announces indigenous air defense missile project, selects LY-80N for new frigates

[Muhammad Omar]

Umm was reading the details of Type 054A Frigate it mention 1x32 VLS cells in the frigate having HQ-16 missile isn't HQ-16 same LY-80?? so who selects LY-80? which is already there??

 

[Dazzler]

Umm was reading the details of Type 054A Frigate it mention 1x32 VLS cells in the frigate having HQ-16 missile isn't HQ-16 same LY-80?? so who selects LY-80? which is already there??

Interest in Ly-80N is a clear indicator that navy has zeroed its focus on 054A. And yes, it is the export version of the hq-16.

 

[Basel]

On the F-22P, FM-90N is nothing more than a PDMS. 15 km range and just 8 missiles in the launcher.

A 24 cell FL-3000N launcher (despite its smaller range: 6km for supersonic and 9km for subsonic targets) is a better option (with its fire-and-forget IIR guidance).

Have you visited F-22P and seen things for yourself and discussed it with PN people on board??

I asked because your post seen firing in the air without having proper knowledge of issue.

I had discussed many topics including this one with PN people on board F-22P and they know more than us here, and F-90 is better than FL-3000N if you can have only one SAM system on ship, it has better range, guidance and response time.

 

[Gryphon]

Have you visited F-22P and seen things for yourself and discussed it with PN people on board??

No.

I asked because your post seen firing in the air without having proper knowledge of issue.

You can enlighten us all.

I had discussed many topics including this one with PN people on board F-22P and they know more than us here, and F-90 is better than FL-3000N if you can have only one SAM system on ship, it has better range, guidance and response time.

The same people you claim to have discussed this topic with were considering FM-90N replacement less than a year after the first ship was delivered.

FL-3000N hits Mach 2.5 at 20G while intercepting an incoming subsonic/supersonic AShM and has fire-and-forget passive RF+IIR guidance. Range is less but missiles are more than FM-90N in number.

 

[Basel]

No.



You can enlighten us all.



The same people you claim to have discussed this topic with were considering FM-90N replacement less than a year after the first ship was delivered.

FL-3000N hits Mach 2.5 at 20G while intercepting an incoming subsonic/supersonic AShM and has fire-and-forget passive RF+IIR guidance. Range is less but missiles are more than FM-90N in number.

How modern wars are fought and how / why certain systems are purchased.

FL-3000N was rejected in favor of AK-630 CIWS by PN and they never opted it even it was possible to get some place around helipad of F-22P. DK-10 is best suited Chinese replacement for FM-90 if it's full fill PN requirements.

FM-90 can intercept Supersonic AShMs at 9km and have much better chance to do that compared to FL-3000N (until major upgrade is done to it).

 

[Gryphon]

How modern wars are fought and how / why certain systems are purchased.

Very convenient to call me 'fanboy'? I think mods have done their work. I am grateful to them all.

FL-3000N was rejected in favor of AK-630 CIWS by PN and they never opted it even it was possible to get some place around helipad of F-22P.

Really!!


The F-22P's were contracted in 2005. First one was delivered in 2009 and the last in 2013.

The first Chinese HHQ-10 design appeared on the weapon trial ship 892 in 2010, and it had 24 cells. Another 18-cell version of the HHQ-10 appeared on the carrier Varyag in 2011, which was renamed Liaoning upon commissioning in September 2012. A third launcher variant with only eight cells appeared on the new Type 056 corvette design at Huang Shipyard in 2012.

https://www.afcea.org/content/china’s-navy-deploys
-three-tier-defensive-weapons


You mean to say PN rejected it even before the PLAN version entered trial stage?
And FYI, there are 2x Type 730B CIWS on the F-22P, not AK-630.

Since your cooked up story is dead, I suggest you relax and have a cup of tea.

 

[Basel]

Very convenient to call me 'fanboy'? I think mods have done their work. I am grateful to them all.



Really!!


The F-22P's were contracted in 2005. First one was delivered in 2009 and the last in 2013.

The first Chinese HHQ-10 design appeared on the weapon trial ship 892 in 2010, and it had 24 cells. Another 18-cell version of the HHQ-10 appeared on the carrier Varyag in 2011, which was renamed Liaoning upon commissioning in September 2012. A third launcher variant with only eight cells appeared on the new Type 056 corvette design at Huang Shipyard in 2012.

https://www.afcea.org/content/china’s-navy-deploys
-three-tier-defensive-weapons


You mean to say PN rejected it even before the PLAN version entered trial stage?
And FYI, there are 2x Type 730B CIWS on the F-22P, not AK-630.

Since your cooked up story is dead, I suggest you relax and have a cup of tea.

Mods here seems to be your friend or something because they are not doing their job properly since sometimes, they have allowed people like you to room around freely here and allowing them disrespecting Pakistani military and military planners.

Collaboration between Pakistan and China is so close that Pakistan knew many projects in advance as many are offered to be tailor made as per Pakistani requirements.

 

[araz]

Mods here seems to be your friend or something because they are not doing their job properly since sometimes, they have allowed people like you to room around freely here and allowing them disrespecting Pakistani military and military planners.

Collaboration between Pakistan and China is so close that Pakistan knew many projects in advance as many are offered to be tailor made as per Pakistani requirements.

OK people. Lets cool it. No trading of insults allowed on the board. Express your opinion and counter others with respect please. No need to get hot here. Save it for your enemies.
A think missile change on the F22 although desirable may not be achievable due to the changes required and space constraints. However if a longer range missile could be incorporated it would be nice.
A

 

[The Eagle]

Very convenient to call me 'fanboy'? I think mods have done their work. I am grateful to them all.



Really!!


The F-22P's were contracted in 2005. First one was delivered in 2009 and the last in 2013.

The first Chinese HHQ-10 design appeared on the weapon trial ship 892 in 2010, and it had 24 cells. Another 18-cell version of the HHQ-10 appeared on the carrier Varyag in 2011, which was renamed Liaoning upon commissioning in September 2012. A third launcher variant with only eight cells appeared on the new Type 056 corvette design at Huang Shipyard in 2012.

https://www.afcea.org/content/china’s-navy-deploys
-three-tier-defensive-weapons


You mean to say PN rejected it even before the PLAN version entered trial stage?
And FYI, there are 2x Type 730B CIWS on the F-22P, not AK-630.

Since your cooked up story is dead, I suggest you relax and have a cup of tea.

Mods here seems to be your friend or something because they are not doing their job properly since sometimes, they have allowed people like you to room around freely here and allowing them disrespecting Pakistani military and military planners.

Collaboration between Pakistan and China is so close that Pakistan knew many projects in advance as many are offered to be tailor made as per Pakistani requirements.

Would be better to keep your discussion more onto subject rather insulting each other personally. In-case of continuation, wouldn't remind again but action will be taken accordingly.

 

[Basel]

[QU

OK people. Lets cool it. No trading of insults allowed on the board. Express your opinion and counter others with respect please. No need to get hot here. Save it for your enemies.
A think missile change on the F22 although desirable may not be achievable due to the changes required and space constraints. However if a longer range missile could be incorporated it would be nice.
A

PN is not interested in changing SAM on F-22P in near future, they even not wanted to change AShMs on board in 2014, as it's not their primary ship against enemy, since long they wanted other advance ships which will take role of air defense, long range anti ship missions, F-22P will be supportive ship in fleet, it is mainly to provide protection of coastline where PAF can provide proper continuous cover.

FM-90 can only be replaced with a SAM which is VLS launched and not higher then windows of deck.

PN had no funds to get what they wanted for implementing their doctrine, hope they get something now.

 

[SQ8]

The F-22ps have laughable air Defence capacity it best. They essentially carry the 70’s crotale which they cannot engage more than 1 target at a time. To offset this, they still train for keeping teams of Mistrals on the deck to tackle any threat coming in close.

Sadly, all threats now will be hypersonic which the crotale is helpless against and the ciws can only hope of 40% success against one or two missles.

Likely outcome of anything other than a close encounter for the F-22Ps with any Indian capital ship is being skewered and sunk.

The bright side is that currently the Indian Navy is lacking truly committed, trained and motivated personnel along its force structure which means they wont be a 100% operating their weapon systems.

But once the Nazi Sanghi fanatical ideals kick into the newer generation, they will be mindless killing machines ready to send our pitiful flotillas down to the sea.

 

[ziaulislam]

How modern wars are fought and how / why certain systems are purchased.

FL-3000N was rejected in favor of AK-630 CIWS by PN and they never opted it even it was possible to get some place around helipad of F-22P. DK-10 is best suited Chinese replacement for FM-90 if it's full fill PN requirements.

FM-90 can intercept Supersonic AShMs at 9km and have much better chance to do that compared to FL-3000N (until major upgrade is done to it).

seeing that f22p has a main gun and other 12.7mm guns, it will be very odd to opt for CIWS gun rather than a RAM like fl 3000, if the performance, cost is not an issue of such system

 

[YeBeWarned]

The F-22ps have laughable air Defence capacity it best. They essentially carry the 70’s crotale which they cannot engage more than 1 target at a time. To offset this, they still train for keeping teams of Mistrals on the deck to tackle any threat coming in close.

Sadly, all threats now will be hypersonic which the crotale is helpless against and the ciws can only hope of 40% success against one or two missles.

Likely outcome of anything other than a close encounter for the F-22Ps with any Indian capital ship is being skewered and sunk.

The bright side is that currently the Indian Navy is lacking truly committed, trained and motivated personnel along its force structure which means they wont be a 100% operating their weapon systems.

But once the Nazi Sanghi fanatical ideals kick into the newer generation, they will be mindless killing machines ready to send our pitiful flotillas down to the sea.

Would a FL-3000 RAM launcher make a difference ?

 

[SQ8]

Would a FL-3000 RAM launcher make a difference ?

Possibly, but the solution lies in lower cross section on ships and more integrated stand off cover from JF-17s.
Because the way today’s missile such as the Brahmos are.. if there are any more than 2 they will get through and only one is enough to cripple or sink anything the PN has.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Possibly, but the solution lies in lower cross section on ships and more integrated stand off cover from JF-17s.
Because the way today’s missile such as the Brahmos are.. if there are any more than 2 they will get through and only one is enough to cripple or sink anything the PN has.

IMO the only way to even begin dealing with the BrahMos is to have a long-range SAM. I think even the HHQ-9 could be a start, but there's no value (for guarding against BrahMos) in the LY80N. The FL-3000N could prevent the sinking of a ship, but BrahMos debris could cause damage. Besides the BrahMos, interdicting possible ship, sub and airborne platforms of that missile is also key. The Hangor (II) SSP is a start towards addressing the ship and sub threat, but for airborne, we need long-range SAM and/or a long-range maritime operations fighter. The JF-17 can cover the littoral waters, but deep in the EEZ, we need more. AAR is an option (for JF-17), but something like the Su-35 or FC-31 would be nice.