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Pakistan must be punished whether I live or Die.

Muradk

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Indians Scorn Worry And Love Their Nuclear Bombs
By Catherine Philp in Delhi


The circle of peace activists had just lit their candles when the yelling started. "Why do you want peace?" one man screamed, approaching the group as they held hands around a guitarist. "You are not good Indians. We should go to war and teach Pakistan a lesson."
While foreigners are packing up and leaving India, scared off by the prospect of a nuclear war, Indian peace campaigners are trying to convince their fellow citizens that a danger really exists. Evening revellers watched in bemusement and, in some cases, anger as the activists held banners and passed out anti-nuclear leaflets in the imposing shade of India Gate, Lutyens's memorial to the country's war dead.
Nisha, 26, clutching an ice cream and her toddler son, read impassively through a leaflet calling for immediate dialogue with Pakistan to avert the horror of a nuclear war. "Why should we worry about this?" she said with a shrug. "India has more nuclear weapons than Pakistan. We will wipe them off the map and win the war."
The view may sound extreme, but it is one shared by George Fernandes, the Indian Defence Minister, who coldly calculated that India could survive such a strike and deliver a fatal blow to Pakistan. Scientists have predicted that a nuclear exchange would kill 12 million people, half of them in India, but all over the country people are baying for war, nonetheless. About 82 per cent believe that Pakistan would use nuclear weapons in the event of a conflict, but 74 per cent believe that India should attack.
To activists, such statistics are terrifying. "There is no conception among ordinary people about what a nuclear bomb would do," Arundhati Roy, the Booker prize-winning author and activist leading the vigil, said. "They just think it will make a louder bang."
When India tested its atomic weapon in 1998, the nuclear scientists responsible were fêted like cricket heroes. No one dared to suggest there might be a downside. There were no public service broadcasts explaining what to do in the event of a nuclear strike, no doomsday television dramas about a nuclear holocaust of the type that put fear into the West during the Cold War.
Rithin Menon, a feminist publisher, said at the rally: "There is a tremendous reluctance to show material that is destabilising. I don't think any television station would dare do it."
The result is a profound ignorance about the reality of nuclear conflict. The depth of misconception among ordinary people, who are pushing for their Government to go to war, is alarming.
"The bomb is some kind of gas," Lalith Kumar, a drinks vendor, said as he served his customers iced tea from his stall in the trendy Priya shopping district. "Farmers will be okay because they can dig trenches to hide in. The rest of us will be annihilated. "
Gancham Gupta, a paediatrician and one of Mr Kumar's customers, snorted into his drink in amusement. He knew much more about nuclear weapons, he said - fall-out, radiation and so on - but still saw little reason to be afraid. "We doubt Pakistan's capability because their missiles are all smuggled," he said.
"India made its own so they will work, but Pakistan's won't."
Anyone who tries to say otherwise is labelled unpatriotic. When Sonia Reddy, an editorial writer, said in an anti-nuclear piece for a national newspaper that she would build an ark for her and her family in the event of a nuclear war, it prompted a stream of e-mails denouncing her as a "bad Indian".
The message is clear: you can be against the bomb or you can be for India. You cannot be both.
"There is a huge ambivalence about being a nuclear power," Ms Menon said. "Very few people, even in the liberal media, will come out against nuclear weapons." Ms Roy added: "There is virtually no peace movement in India. That's very disturbing."
A few publications are beginning to stick their necks out. In its weekend edition, the news magazine India Today carried a report describing in detail what would happen if Pakistan were to launch a nuclear strike. Its cover shows people running in panic away from a mushroom cloud rising over India Gate as a firestorm tears up the main street.
But with supporters of war in full voice, such apocalyptic scenarios may have come too late to change public opinion. "I don't care whether I live or die - we must punish Pakistan," Mr Kumar said, mixing up another jug of iced tea. "If it doesn't happen to me, it will happen to my children. There should be war now and this should be the end of it."
 
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i could understand the uneducated indians thinking that they will survive a nuclear attack as they might not no much but this is even more scary.

US institute: Israel could survive nuclear war

If a nuclear war between Israel and Iran were to break out 16-20 million Iranians would lose their lives - as opposed to 200,000-800,000 Israelis, according to a report recently published by the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), which is headed by Anthony H. Cordesman, formerly an analyst for the US Department of Defense. The document, which is largely theoretical due to the lack of verified knowledge in some areas - specifically in terms of Israel's nuclear capability - paints various scenarios and attempts to predict the strategies of regional powers, as well as the US.
The report assesses that a nuclear war would last approximately three weeks and ultimately end with the annihilation of Iran, due to Israel's alleged possession of weapons with a far larger yield. Israel, according to the assessment, would have a larger chance of survival. The report does not attempt to predict how many deaths would eventually be caused by possible nuclear fallout.

Even if Iran gained the means and knowledge to create nuclear weapons, according to the report it would still be limited to 100 kiloton weapons, which can cause a far smaller radius of destruction than the 1 megaton bombs Israel allegedly possesses.

Possible targets for an Iranian strike are the Tel Aviv metropolitan area and Haifa bay, while the list of possible targets in Iran includes the cities Teheran, Tabriz, Qazvin, Esfahan, Shiraz, Yazd, Kerman, Qom, Ahwaz and Kermanshah.
The report cites Israel's Arrow missile defense system as an obstacle facing a possible Iranian strike and says that it could shoot down most of the missiles. Israel, on the other hand, would be capable of hitting most of the Iranian cities with pinpoint accuracy due to the high resolution satellite imagery systems at its disposal.

Another scenario presented by the report includes Syria joining the bandwagon in case of a war and lobbing missiles with chemical and biological warheads into Israeli cities. According to the report, up to 800,000 Israelis would be killed if that were to happen. Syria, however, would be forced to grapple with the deaths of approximately 18 million of its citizens were Israel to respond with its nuclear arsenal.
Israel, the report says, would launch a nuclear attack on Cairo and additional Egyptian cities, and would destroy the Aswan Dam if Egypt joined the fray.
US institute: Israel could survive nuclear war | Jerusalem Post
 
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Muradk,

The original article is from Times and re-posted on Rense ( not exactly a mainstream paper) It goes back to June 2004! Fernandez has not been the Minister of Defense in a while. In 4 years a lot of people have had a chance to learn about nukes, and especially what they are capable of.

'I Don't Care Whether I Live Or Die - We Must Punish Pakistan'

How relevant is this in today's India / Pakistan context? Do the Nuclear missiles mock ups still stand in Pakistan's major cities or have they since been taken down?

When I last visited India, I did not see a single missile mock up of ANY kind!
 
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Anyone can hold any view in India including Ministers.

That is what is democracy all about.

But it is the govt policies that decides the national initiatives.

Fernandez, the Defence Minister, has said that China was India's enemy No 1 and not Pakistan. This caused a huge furore!

There are many vested interest in the world now who are against the CBM between India and Pakistan since they will not be able to pit one against the other and sell their weapons and technology. These chaps will indeed bring up dead and buried issues, which will appeal to some in India and Pakistan who are still deeply buried in history, and it will reignite the historical animosity!

I do hope better sense prevails and India and Pakistan boldly move towards the bold initiatives taken at great personal risk towards amity between India and Pakistan and which, at every step, people within and without, try to sabotage!
 
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Its only the people who want a war. illiterate or not, Pakistani or Indian. Saying is always easy specially in this type of situation, doing is the hard part and its sometimes not hard for the illiterate people. :pakistan:
 
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i could understand the uneducated indians thinking that they will survive a nuclear attack as they might not no much but this is even more scary.

US institute: Israel could survive nuclear war

If a nuclear war between Israel and Iran were to break out 16-20 million Iranians would lose their lives - as opposed to 200,000-800,000 Israelis, according to a report recently published by the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), which is headed by Anthony H. Cordesman, formerly an analyst for the US Department of Defense. The document, which is largely theoretical due to the lack of verified knowledge in some areas - specifically in terms of Israel's nuclear capability - paints various scenarios and attempts to predict the strategies of regional powers, as well as the US.
The report assesses that a nuclear war would last approximately three weeks and ultimately end with the annihilation of Iran, due to Israel's alleged possession of weapons with a far larger yield. Israel, according to the assessment, would have a larger chance of survival. The report does not attempt to predict how many deaths would eventually be caused by possible nuclear fallout.

Even if Iran gained the means and knowledge to create nuclear weapons, according to the report it would still be limited to 100 kiloton weapons, which can cause a far smaller radius of destruction than the 1 megaton bombs Israel allegedly possesses.

Possible targets for an Iranian strike are the Tel Aviv metropolitan area and Haifa bay, while the list of possible targets in Iran includes the cities Teheran, Tabriz, Qazvin, Esfahan, Shiraz, Yazd, Kerman, Qom, Ahwaz and Kermanshah.
The report cites Israel's Arrow missile defense system as an obstacle facing a possible Iranian strike and says that it could shoot down most of the missiles. Israel, on the other hand, would be capable of hitting most of the Iranian cities with pinpoint accuracy due to the high resolution satellite imagery systems at its disposal.

Another scenario presented by the report includes Syria joining the bandwagon in case of a war and lobbing missiles with chemical and biological warheads into Israeli cities. According to the report, up to 800,000 Israelis would be killed if that were to happen. Syria, however, would be forced to grapple with the deaths of approximately 18 million of its citizens were Israel to respond with its nuclear arsenal.
Israel, the report says, would launch a nuclear attack on Cairo and additional Egyptian cities, and would destroy the Aswan Dam if Egypt joined the fray.
US institute: Israel could survive nuclear war | Jerusalem Post

Do they think that if Israel starts nuking middle east pakistan will sit on its *** and look.
 
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About 82 per cent believe that Pakistan would use nuclear weapons in the event of a conflict, but 74 per cent believe that India should attack.

These figures are questionable IMHO. No doubt there are hot heads but in such numbers. :eek:

I really doubt the veracity of these numbers. And of course don't agree with a NW war in SA.

At least if we go by the internet forums, there are more Pakistani internet warriors who are spoiling for a NW war. Anyway it is insane in my mind.
 
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These figures are questionable IMHO. No doubt there are hot heads but in such numbers. :eek:

I really doubt the veracity of these numbers. And of course don't agree with a NW war in SA.

At least if we go by the internet forums, there are more Pakistani internet warriors who are spoiling for a NW war. Anyway it is insane in my mind.

I agree with you... For the general public these figures are not true...
should not be true.... Because if they are then it can only promote more hatered among people.
 
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These figures are questionable IMHO. No doubt there are hot heads but in such numbers. :eek:

I really doubt the veracity of these numbers. And of course don't agree with a NW war in SA.

At least if we go by the internet forums, there are more Pakistani internet warriors who are spoiling for a NW war. Anyway it is insane in my mind.

Those 72 and 83%s are at their best asking about ten people around the airport or at its worst writing numbers to suit their article already typed and then filling out the gaps.

Any way one way to understand duplicity, any article which even mentions arundhati rai or medha patkar, throw into the dust bin.
 
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We certainly will not sit and watch. We will defend our brothers and once in for all prove what Pakistan can do.

are those belonging to pakistan or belonging to middle east, decide that first. If iran or iraq are running a war with israel, what is the need for pakistan to bu*t in (unless some vital pakistan's interests are in danger)?

Decision is simple: are your bombs for the protection of Pakistan or for "islam" protection?

Nope, for both is not an option.
 
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Those 72 and 83%s are at their best asking about ten people around the airport or at its worst writing numbers to suit their article already typed and then filling out the gaps.

Any way one way to understand duplicity, any article which even mentions arundhati rai or medha patkar, throw into the dust bin.

Well they provide good fodder for the anti-India brigade. Good for them!
 
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are those belonging to pakistan or belonging to middle east, decide that first. If iran or iraq are running a war with israel, what is the need for pakistan to bu*t in (unless some vital pakistan's interests are in danger)?

Decision is simple: are your bombs for the protection of Pakistan or for "islam" protection?

Nope, for both is not an option.

For Pakistan in first place and for Islam when it is required.


:pakistan:
 
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There is a reason why such double things are not possible in a realistic scenario.

Now as was told above, say iran(whatever countries excluding Pakistan) is fighting with israel and israel bombed iran.

Now Pakistan says I will enter the fight, I am a hero and lo sends nukes on israel. Israel survives some nuke arsenal and voila they come crashing onto lahore, karachi, islamabad and other cities.(if us enters the fight, the fight from Pakistan is anyway closed, so if I discount that)


So is Pakistan ready to sacrifice those cities for iran's/iraq's sake? because, in the above scenario, you have kept islam above pakistan and lost pakistan.

Here one can say islam needs it, but at stake is Pakistan, what are Pak's options?

So a clear cut prioritization is what I was hinting at (If you said that it was Pakistan, I am sorry, but the second part of statement for me acted as a qualifier)
 
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The article depicts the common man's mentality. It's similar for India and Pakistan. In my view too, those who live and breath about peace initiative live in a heaven of fools. It can never happen. Infact i think that the results of wars in middle east or elsewhere in the world are nothing in consequences then what we will have here. The religious element is present on both sides. The hindu religious mentality will definitly play its part and so would be on Pakistani side. Consider the fact that if there was no enemity why the partition happened. It happened due to some reason. Even this day, and it's well documented in media, minorities suffers in India in the hands of hindu extremists. These days its the Christians turn, burning of churches and damage to their properties happened in past three days. The bad thing is that it was not reported in any mainstream nowhere world media. Had it been in Pakistan, we would have headlines on it all over the world.

Unfortunately most of the subcontinental population is extremist. Consider an example. Why do you think Narender Moody has once again won the election in Gujrat? If anybody has a little bit of sennse and if he thinks impartially or logically without any biasing, he can understand why.

In our part of the world its does not matter how much educated or liberal or forward looking you are. What you do and how you act and speak is dependent upon how you are being looked upon and how you are being treated. I am at the engineering doctoral level. When I talk about favoring war, in case attacked, and talk about building defences against the foreign threats it sound's weird to my European fellows but they dont have that similar experiences and observations as I have. It snot only my views and ideas. Its almost everybody's. You protect your home in any case.

Mr Salim's views on democracy are regretable. Now I understand why Indian's call themselves world's largest democracy. In view of whatever happens in that country, indeed they are.
 
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