Pakistan Military options in Kashmir today - a perspective

[Baltistan scouts]

Exactly.

We have a lot of childish people here who believe no's of foot soldiers decide modern wars.

Foot soldier's are an important factor without them.you cannot hold on to territory you captured why do you think the indians have 1 million troops in jk .we have a lot childish people who think you dont need soldiers anymore

 

[R Wing]

Foot soldier's are an important factor without them.you cannot hold on to territory you captured why do you think the indians have 1 million troops in jk .we have a lot childish people who think you dont need soldiers anymore

You have employed logical fallacies in your reply.

You suggest that foot soldiers are "an important factor without them. you cannot hold on to territory you captured," which insinuates that I suggested that foot soldiers are not important at all. This is not the case. I did not suggest we disband our infantry units. I suggested that we do not need more soldiers (nor are we in a position to be able to afford them; this is not Red Alert 2 where raising infantry divisions takes a few clicks of the mouse) --- we need more tech, better UW capability and the political will to use asymmetric means to frustrate and defeat our enemy.

Pakistan's Army is not designed to capture all of India and hold it. Have you read and do you understand our military doctrine?

Please stop wasting time with childish responses that lower the overall intellectual quality of this forum.

 

[Baltistan scouts]

You have employed logical fallacies in your reply.

You suggest that foot soldiers are "an important factor without them. you cannot hold on to territory you captured," which insinuates that I suggested that foot soldiers are not important at all. This is not the case. I did not suggest we disband our infantry units. I suggested that we do not need more soldiers (nor are we in a position to be able to afford them; this is not Red Alert 2 where raising infantry divisions takes a few clicks of the mouse) --- we need more tech, better UW capability and the political will to use asymmetric means to frustrate and defeat our enemy.

Pakistan's Army is not designed to capture all of India and hold it. Have you read and do you understand our military doctrine?

Please stop wasting time with childish responses that lower the overall intellectual quality of this forum.

We cant afford to raise infantary regiments you make me laugh il waste as much time as i like.ive read our doctrine and ive served in azad kashmir regiment. Our doctrine needs to be changed if you want jk saved

 

[Signalian]

So the 5 lakh+ reserve force is actually made of Retired men. Are they physically capable then?
Are Indian paramilitary forces BSF and CRPF trained to fight Pakistani armoured division?

1. Yes.
2. Their deployment is mostly in mountains.

Whoever controls Delhi , controls the IOK. Plain and simple. This is primarily a political question than a military one. Strategically, Kashmir is not some Island in the Indian Ocean which can be won in a war. Therefore, a correct question is required here. Military strategy is much more than offensives and logistics .

Control over Delhi is possible through change of political power, something on lines of what CIA does.

If we are to even field 1x brigade in Airborne role then we would be needing 20+ Z-20 class choppers and 10+ MI-17 type transport choppers (excl recon, gunships and med evac choppers) to support their assault in 4 sorties.

That is a lot of capex in equipment.

Full brigade doesn't need to be dropped for every operation. Some Ops would require company size drop, some 2 x Coy size, rare Op may see a Battalion size drop.Yes the air lift is still not adequate. Pakistan Army lag behinds in Air assault/airborne formations, supports and thus Ops, that is the concern.

 

[Signalian]

Response to people who commented on his earlier video:

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Neelam is more populated and Atmuqam is in Indian artillery range even with Mortors that's why we keep listening it more.

Pakistan army is on those down slops... Now climbing up across that mountain is easier only on paper or forum. Actually, this is a logistical nightmare even if we somehow manage to destroy all those Indian forward bases and posts. They have massive fire support from rare. They are on a higher summit. Our distance from base of Mountains to top is almost double at many places because to geological features.

Shouldn't be a problem for some well trained mountain regiment to climb and take.
View attachment 632495

Bhai, kuch aisa hi hai.

Yeah, but a close analysis of the defensive layout may suggest that the attacker will require more than superior force ratios. Once you find strong-points on top, well constructed, able to hold hold out for may be a week after being cut off, then its makes the task a bit more difficult.



For IA, supplies are not much of a problem now. From Battalion locations back till Division locations, supplies of all types have been dumped to last a period of almost 6 months.

Peaks are also difficult to take because the defender is already looking down on you. If he gets a mere hint of a build up of any type, may it be infantry, artillery or supplies, he will just reinforce its peak location and the whole attack attack gets jeopardized before launch. This was one of the main reasons we were unable to capture Poonch in 1971, even though we were attacking downhill.

@Signalian

 

[313ghazi]

We cant afford to raise infantary regiments you make me laugh il waste as much time as i like.ive read our doctrine and ive served in azad kashmir regiment. Our doctrine needs to be changed if you want jk saved

I'm of the same view as you, but we need to ensure these guys aren't cannon fodder. Even irregular forces if provided proper support could help capture and hold ground, but forces need air cover and eyes in the sky to help protect them. They also need support from heavier firepower, especially whilst they're moving.

What’s 313?

No disrespect intended, but that number should be engraved in your heart and your mind. Please read about the battle of badr.

 

[PakFactor]

I'm of the same view as you, but we need to ensure these guys aren't cannon fodder. Even irregular forces if provided proper support could help capture and hold ground, but forces need air cover and eyes in the sky to help protect them. They also need support from heavier firepower, especially whilst they're moving.



No disrespect intended, but that number should be engraved in your heart and your mind. Please read about the battle of badr.

I know about Badr, as I mentioned I thought it was implied for something else.

 

[Signalian]

@Signalian

Pity can’t use SH-1 properly in mountains.

 

[AlKardai]

Returning to this thread, it seems that the only possible way to properly wrestle control from India in the regions that they have occupied, is through asymmetric warfare. Conventional capabilities and swift strikes are absolutely out of the question and the doctrine to capture the occupied regions rests solely on the covert operations and sabotage that will occur there.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Pity can’t use SH-1 properly in mountains.

.... On the contrary....

 

[Signalian]

.... On the contrary....

I was expecting this

 

[khansaheeb]

How?

Without weapons and training, the only way they can assist is by facilitating the invading forces by providing them lodging facilities, food and shelter(esp useful for special forces). Even if weapons are provided on an emergency basis, not much can be expected from untrained people or people with rudimentary training. Maybe, the numbers of invasion troops can be swelled by the induction of local people, but when one can't be certain how they'll react to mortar or arty round (run away or hold fast) so it remains a gamble.
Furthermore, 4-5km is still the mountains, not the valley which is boiling --- the reaction of those people might be different than the reaction of the valley dwellers. We must also remember that Kashmir is not a homogeneous entity, Ladakh has never seen an uprising till now, Jammu remains pre-dominantly Sikh/Hindu region. The valley has a strong support for Pakistan today but it is much deeper than 5-6 km.
Ground needs to be prepared for that.

As we speak, there are only around 400 armed fighters inside IOK, most of whom are lightly armed, lack proper training and seem to be unfamiliar with the intricacies of guerrilla warfare bar a few top leaders like Naikoo. Indian army has more than enough manpower required to crush even a well trained guerrilla force of that number. Unless the LOC is softened and safe heavens plus volunteers provided on this side of the border to initiate a well organized uprising in IOK before we launch an actual invasion, we can only hope for food, shelter, intel and navigation. We can muster 25k-40k armed volunteers within 2-3 months who can be used in IOK as a guerrilla force (based on past estimates, we did have much more than that number of armed Mujahideen from Punjab, AJK and KPK)

In any case other than limited asymmetric warfare, the role of airforce will be the deciding factor. Whoever achieves air-supremacy is bound to win. IMO we should've spent more on PAF and less on PA
We musn't forget that AJK is our first line of defence which protects Pakistan's geographic vulnerabilities in the North; Water from there is our lifeline which is threatened over and over again by India.

Easiest way to supply arms to Kashmiris is to fire Howitzer/rockets specially strengthened and modified with parachutes to soften the landings. These would have their warheads modified to contain ammo. This would allow precision drops of ammo well behind enemy lines.