Pakistan Military options in Kashmir today - a perspective

[Wolf]

Pakistan should get the numbers game right I.e. parity in numbers in armed assets. There is no such thing as minimum credible deterrence. It is a flawed doctrine like defence of east lies in West. Tac nukes are nukes nonetheless. Using them will invite nukes from India.

With minimum credible deterrence, you can only defend, you can't get Kashmir.

 

[KhanBaba2]

What makes you say that are you on drugs .pakistan population is 210 million raising an army of 1 million men is very possible and should be done.just to name s a fewthe army of north korea 'eygpt'brazil vietnam are about a million so it is possible for pakistan to do this.just me mentioning this on this forum and the indians are bricking themselves.

Pakistan has a tax revenue of around 33 billion. 5 billion you get from capital receipts.

20 billion goes to loan repayment and interest . 6 billion to salaries, pension and running of civil government.7 billion to defense. Then you have PDSP, subsidies and a lot of other expenses.

You are already running massive deficit.

If you increase your army by 1 million, 20 billion will go to defense.

 

[Baltistan scouts]

Pakistan has a tax revenue of around 33 billion. 5 billion you get from capital receipts.

20 billion goes to loan repayment and interest . 6 billion to salaries, pension and running of civil government.7 billion to defense. Then you have PDSP, subsidies and a lot of other expenses.

You are already running massive deficit.

If you increase your army by 1 million, 20 billion will go to defense.

First of all increasing troops numbers by 400000 and and 2nd i dont need a maths lesson we can do it its a simple as that increase the budget and eat grass as someone once said. Or like we always do let pml and ppp eat the money as they always do never seen the corruption like these two anywhere in the world

First of all increasing troops numbers by 400000 and and 2nd i dont need a maths lesson we can do it its a simple as that increase the budget and eat grass as someone once said. Or like we always do let pml and ppp eat the money as they always do never seen the corruption like these two anywhere in the world

Sacrifices have to be made for kashmir liberation it aint gonna be a cakewalk

 

[KhanBaba2]

First of all increasing troops numbers by 400000 and and 2nd i dont need a maths lesson we can do it its a simple as that increase the budget and eat grass as someone once said. Or like we always do let pml and ppp eat the money as they always do never seen the corruption like these two anywhere in the world

It does look like you need a maths lesson. If you don't want one, that's OK. There is more to waging war then fighting men. Economy is a big component.

To increase the budget, you have to increase taxes. There is already a thread running elsewhere where the IMF has asked to increase taxes and all the Pakistani members are angry about that. So I wonder how much you can increase taxes for the 400000 new recruits.

 

[Baltistan scouts]

Pakistani members aint paid tax for 70 years its about time they did.if they had we would not be in this economic situation .and our army would be 1 million strong.like i said no sacrifice no kashmir

 

[Wolf]

If a soldier costs you RS. 50,000 per month.
It means RS. 600,000 per year per soldier.
10 soldiers = Rs. 6 million.
100 soldiers = Rs. 60 million
1000 soldiers = RS. 600 million
10,000 soldiers = Rs. 6000 million (6 billion)
100,000 soldiers = Rs. 60 billion

1 million soldiers = RS. 600 billion. Per year

This is 4 billion dollars per year. But the above money doesn't need to be measured in dollar terms as the costs incurred will mostly be in local currency. So lesser foreign exchange component is involved.

I don't see why it can't be done. It will be a bit taxing but considering your objective of liberating Kashmir, it is worth it.

We all know that our defense budget is already RS. 1100 billion. We need to check some unchecked and useless expenditures in commercial ventures.

Furthermore, this 1 million strong army should be and will be a volunteer army and can be honarably discharged or put to some other use after the objective is achieved.

However, what can't be ruled out is that we in any case must bring armor, jets, subs etc. to at par levels with indians.

 

[Baltistan scouts]

After increasing manpower which is a priority to over run defences of indian army in occupied kashmir,pakistan army needs to look to increase armoured divisons. at least to 4500 tanks.once we recd subs and frigates from china over the next couple of years our sealanes will be free from any misadventures from indian navy.our weak link is airforce unless Pakistan buys j11 from china at least 36 to counter any india french jets

 

[Esgalduin]

What makes you say that are you on drugs .pakistan population is 210 million raising an army of 1 million men is very possible and should be done.just to name s a fewthe army of north korea 'eygpt'brazil vietnam are about a million so it is possible for pakistan to do this.just me mentioning this on this forum and the indians are bricking themselves.

First of all, I'm not an Indian. Second, do you have any idea how an escalation ladder works? It's not just limited to deploying munitions. If Pakistan raises an army of 1 million men through conscription, what makes you think the Indians won't do the same? And even if it isn't through conscription and Pakistan just follows a gradual increase in manpower and military units, do you really believe India won't do the same? The greatest edge that Indians have over us is their population and the greatest basis (at least currently) for uniting the population in India is a Pakistani "threat", making it easier for them to increase their own manpower. What makes you think India will gladly let Pakistan raise its manpower to achieve parity with them in order to make it a more balanced fight? What makes you think the Indians will sit idle and not draw from their population to tip the scales in their favour? Any step Pakistan takes to get an advantage will be responded to by India: it's just common sense, dude. Literally any school-boy with a sixth grade comprehension level knows that you don't allow your opponent to gain an advantage when you can counteract against said advantage. Please stop resorting to ad hom attacks, and understand I was criticising the substance of your argument, and not of your character.

 

[Baltistan scouts]

First of all, I'm not an Indian. Second, do you have any idea how an escalation ladder works? It's not just limited to deploying munitions. If Pakistan raises an army of 1 million men through conscription, what makes you think the Indians won't do the same? And even if it isn't through conscription and Pakistan just follows a gradual increase in manpower and military units, do you really believe India won't do the same? The greatest edge that Indians have over us is their population and the greatest basis (at least currently) for uniting the population in India is a Pakistani "threat", making it easier for them to increase their own manpower. What makes you think India will gladly let Pakistan raise its manpower to achieve parity with them in order to make it a more balanced fight? What makes you think the Indians will sit idle and not draw from their population to tip the scales in their favour? Any step Pakistan takes to get an advantage will be responded to by India: it's just common sense, dude. Literally any school-boy with a sixth grade comprehension level knows that you don't allow your opponent to gain an advantage when you can counteract against said advantage. Please stop resorting to ad hom attacks, and understand I was criticising the substance of your argument, and not of your character.

I never said you were indian .no 1 i said indians are bricking themselves after reading what ive written and thers loads on this forum.no 2 pakistan does not need conscription never has done .no 3 if india wants to increase troops let them as our troops are closer to loc and indian borders so no travelling needed in mobilization. No 4 the indian economy may be doing better but its still not great.no 5 gaining advantage over the last 72 years india being bigger in size population economy india still cannot make their own planes tejas nobody wants arjun tanks nobody wants india could not buy 120 french jets had to settle for 36 .indian army is great but has to have 900000 in jk for them to control kashmiris .unity in india against pakistan is the same for pakistanis against india .india must be realy threatened if they have to them.numbers in their current army or they feel without the numbers the pakistanis army will over run them

 

[Esgalduin]

I never said you were indian .no 1 i said indians are bricking themselves after reading what ive written and thers loads on this forum.no 2 pakistan does not need conscription never has done .no 3 if india wants to increase troops let them as our troops are closer to loc and indian borders so no travelling needed in mobilization. No 4 the indian economy may be doing better but its still not great.no 5 gaining advantage over the last 72 years india being bigger in size population economy india still cannot make their own planes tejas nobody wants arjun tanks nobody wants india could not buy 120 french jets had to settle for 36 .indian army is great but has to have 900000 in jk for them to control kashmiris .unity in india against pakistan is the same for pakistanis against india .india must be realy threatened if they have to them.numbers in their current army or they feel without the numbers the pakistanis army will over run them

Everything you said is certainly very valid in that India's preparations for all-out conflict vis a vis logistics would hit several snags, but that doesn't preclude the probability that our logistics situation would also be affected. Any conflict without the spectre of nuclear weapons between us and them depends on surprise, speed, and violence of action. The first few days will be the most decisive. There is a very real possibility that India can and will use its larger population to open up new fronts, stretching our forces thin. It is a foregone conclusion: we cannot match the Indians in terms of mobilising manpower. What we can do and have been doing is bridging that gap using tactics and weaponry.

 

[Wolf]

Everything you said is certainly very valid in that India's preparations for all-out conflict vis a vis logistics would hit several snags, but that doesn't preclude the probability that our logistics situation would also be affected. Any conflict without the spectre of nuclear weapons between us and them depends on surprise, speed, and violence of action. The first few days will be the most decisive. There is a very real possibility that India can and will use its larger population to open up new fronts, stretching our forces thin. It is a foregone conclusion: we cannot match the Indians in terms of mobilising manpower. What we can do and have been doing is bridging that gap using tactics and weaponry.

surprise, speed, and violence of action.

You answered yourself.

Better for us Pakistanis to surprise rather than be surprised ourselves.

 

[Esgalduin]

surprise, speed, and violence of action.

You answered yourself.

Better for us Pakistanis to surprise rather than be surprised ourselves.

Exactly. That's why India's population size makes the possibility of any conflict turning into a stalemate so much higher. Where numbers matter, we'll counter it with ingenuity. It worked for the 313 (from a purely military perspective), it will work for us In Shaa Allah.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

we cannot match the Indians in terms of mobilising manpower.

Are u sure that they are more mobile than us?

 

[Esgalduin]

Are u sure that they are more mobile than us?

Not at all. But India's strength lies in forcing a protracted war or even a stalemate. Even if we mobilise our formations faster than them and secure key territory over the border, our ability to hold on to it will be severely tested if India can recuperate and use its sizable population to great effect: either by opening new fronts across the border, or by sending reinforcements to repel our formations, or both. There is a historical precedent for these possibilities. It won't be a numbers game in the initial stages of conflict but the more prolonged the conflict becomes, the more risk of us losing our momentum= India could amass enough men and materiel to repel us. If we lose our momentum, we will essentially be repeating 65 and 71.

 

[PakFactor]

Exactly. That's why India's population size makes the possibility of any conflict turning into a stalemate so much higher. Where numbers matter, we'll counter it with ingenuity. It worked for the 313 (from a purely military perspective), it will work for us In Shaa Allah.

What’s 313?