Pakistan may study other fighter options as US asks Pakistan to make full payment for F-16 purchase

[ravi gupta]

us backstabbed pakistan again. and nawaz will fly 2 washington 2 kiss feet of american president 4 backstabbing pakistan. well done india ! now when u have another mumbai massacre dont whine at pakistan. if u lobby 2 cut off pakistan military aid how can it protect its borders against people wanting 2 come in and slaughter u !

Brother your establishment know very well that any other mumbai massacre initiated from your soil what will happen?so lets not pray about it.
Lets focus on diplomacy with US both india and pakistan.

 

[HttpError]

How many more times do we need to get this reality check ? Why aren't we moving away from F-16s, Yes they were good but times have changed so is the relationship between USA and Pakistan. I think we should start looking for other platforms which have no strings attached to it. Plus that way US will lose any leverage they have on us. Good for both parties.

 

[Falcon26]

Pakistan is getting those Helos for free? That's news to me, Can you support it with a link?

And yeah along with military lollipops, Pakistan has gotten various other gifts too post 9/11 courtesy uncle sam. I wonder what Pakistanis would prefer - pre '01 peace and economic progress vs few F-16s and other tidbits.

There are sharp differences within US and Afghan themselves if Pakistan's motives are as altruistic as you suggest. That is why the increasing acrimony and dissatisfaction within US and Afghanistan on Pakistan dubious role in sheltering the Taliban and Enemy numero uno OBL, that is why the increasing questioning from both sides of aisle in US senate and congress, that is why the pointed reminders from white house, military generals and state dept on how Pakistan is quite selective when it comes to targeting militants.

You might wish from green skies but that doesn't make it so

As for Indian role as you indirectly referenced, you should just look at the goodwill India has with Afghans and US themselves to arrive at the conclusion of constructive role being played by India. We have constructed dams, highways, hospitals and even their parliament vis a vis Pakistan providing state protocol to Talibunnies. @A-Team @Sher Malang your views

Pakistan never had a good relationship with the Northern Alliance before & after they entered Kabul in winter of 2001. India is their preferred ally for obvious reason. But it wasn't India that hosted millions of Afghani refugees for decades and it wasn't India that stood with the Afghan people in their struggle against Soviet invasion. It's self-deluding to equate the current Kabul government with the views of everyday Afghanis. The vast majority of Afghans have a very poor view of the Kabul government and this is precisely why the Taliban and other non state actors are able to enjoy support among the Afghans.

In terms of Pakistan selectively targeting militants, it's not Pakistan's job to secure the peace for Afganistan. The ongoing military operations in Pakistan is denying militants spaces to operate and they have run to Afganistan's vast ungoverned spaces. Pakistan can't become a scapegoats for Kabul's incompetence and corruption and their incapacity to protect their people despite presence of NATO & after hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent to arm them.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Just pay the 430 Mil from the bank already add another 30 more planes

Tell congress to shove it up the democratic ***

We need to attack Afghanistan that is it

 

[Falcon26]

Pakistan is getting those Helos for free? That's news to me, Can you support it with a link?

And yeah along with military lollipops, Pakistan has gotten various other gifts too post 9/11 courtesy uncle sam. I wonder what Pakistanis would prefer - pre '01 peace and economic progress vs few F-16s and other tidbits.

Yes as part of the Pentagon's FMS funds. Can't search links now but shouldn't be hard to google.

 

[shah1398]

Not even a single military deal or tranche of CSF related to Pakistan had sailed through smoothly in US and bore such hick ups. After all the congressmen etc India paid have to create some ripples to give impression that they tried worth the money. In no case anything is getting halted in the end. These are just headlines to appease the ones who had given them money.

What's the problem? Only aid has been halted. Pakistan should it's own dime to buy these jets as almost all of the world does.

No one wants to reject a thing if U get it on discounted rates or even free. Why spend money then? And if spending money is inevitable then surely we would do so.

 

[Spectre]

Yes as part of the Pentagon's FMS funds. Can't search links now but shouldn't be hard to google.

I can find no confirmation that these were full subsidized.

Pakistan never had a good relationship with the Northern Alliance before & after they entered Kabul in winter of 2011. India is their preferred ally for obvious reason. But it wasn't India that hosted millions of Afghani refugees for decades and it wasn't India that stood with the Afghan people in their struggle against Soviet invasion. It's self-deluding to equate the current Kabul government with the views of everyday Afghanis. The vast majority of Afghans have a very poor view of the Kabul government and this is precisely why the Taliban and other non state actors are able to enjoy support among the Afghans.

In terms of Pakistan selectively targeting militants, it's not Pakistan's job to secure the peace for Afganistan. The ongoing military operations in Pakistan is denying militants spaces to operate and they have run to Afganistan's vast ungoverned spaces. Pakistan can't become a scapegoats for Kabul's incompetence and corruption and their incapacity to protect their people despite presence of NATO & after hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent to arm them.

Pakistan actively supports Taliban as stated by Afghan Govt, I wonder why you being a US citizen are making excuses for duplicity of Pakistan when the view held by cast majority of US establishment is that while Pakistan is quite industrious in fighting TTP it is lack of success is quite spectacular when it comes to India or Afghan focused terrorist.

 

[Falcon26]

I can find no confirmation that these were full subsidized.


Pakistan actively supports Taliban as stated by Afghan Govt, I wonder why you being a US citizen are making excuses for duplicity of Pakistan when the view held by cast majority of US establishment is that while Pakistan is quite industrious in fighting TTP it is lack of success is quite spectacular when it comes to India or Afghan focused terrorist.

I am pretty certain that the helicopter deal was coming from FMS funds same way they were suppose to come from this 8 F-16s.

Who takes the statements of the Kabul government serious? Pakistan is not beholden to Afghanistan or to the US. It's beholden to its people and its national interests. Why should that be called duplicity? Pakistan has for a long time maintained that the Taliban deserve a place in the negotiating table. It's only very recently that the US has came to share this wisdom. Now Pakistan is being expected to fight the Taliban and at the same time bring them to the table? Talk about duplicity!

Anyways let's not hijack the purpose of this thread.

 

[Paksanity]

There are sharp differences within US and Afghan themselves if Pakistan's motives are as altruistic as you suggest. That is why the increasing acrimony and dissatisfaction within US and Afghanistan on Pakistan dubious role in sheltering the Taliban and Enemy numero uno OBL, that is why the increasing questioning from both sides of aisle in US senate and congress, that is why the pointed reminders from white house, military generals and state dept on how Pakistan is quite selective when it comes to targeting militants.

You might wish from green skies but that doesn't make it so

As for Indian role as you indirectly referenced, you should just look at the goodwill India has with Afghans and US themselves to arrive at the conclusion of constructive role being played by India. We have constructed dams, highways, hospitals and even their parliament vis a vis Pakistan providing state protocol to Talibunnies. @A-Team @Sher Malang your views

You mean to say we want a neighbour from where instability keeps pouring inside our country? No, thank you. OTOH, it is in Indian interest to keep Afghanistan volatile because that serves her short sighted goals. But that is entirely a different debate.

When one talks about Afghanistan, one must make distinction as who he is referring to as Afghanistan? Afghanistan is complex and does not function as a single entity. US placed her bet on Northern Alliance. India came flocking to exploit the situation. We knew these folks are no good and will only lead to everlasting civil war. In case you chose to ignore, we understand Afghanistan a little better. 1.6 decades and $1trillion later, US understands this. Taliban can not be defeated and a stalemate with swinging battle lines will go on. Dreams of 2001 are long gone. A negotiated solution has to be found. As it so happens, it isn't easy to negotiate with Taliban nor is it possible to control them. Pakistan can only communicate with them because of Pashtun link which is present on either side. What you like US lawmakers are suggesting will result in an uncontrollable situation. Good for India. More Afghanistan burns easier it is to spread your agenda. Bad for Pakistan and US. As I said earlier, Pakistan understands Afghanistan a little better than others. No peace will prevail unless Pashtun ethnicity gets its due part. Northern Alliance has to give up some of its powers and resources. Or the insurgency will rage on.

US congressmen can go on blaming Pakistan now but the fact is US did not listen to us. We told them Northern Alliance is bad choice. They are corrupt, incompetent and have little confidence from people of Afghanistan. Pakistan can not fix this. It's broken beyond repair. We are offering the best possible solution under the circumstances. There can be no idealistic solution in Afghanistan, I'm sorry to break the news to US lawmakers. Your best bet is to contain insurgency (ANA has failed spectacularly in this) and negotiate a ceasefire. Or else watch Afghanistan descending further in chaos. Don't believe me? You are most welcome to bring in Indian army to fight insurgency. They will get it within a year.

Should US lawmakers fail to read this complex situation, Pakistan has already put in place plan B. It should be visible to wise men by now.

 

[weqi]

PAF evidently can't even afford 8 F-16 Fighters at full price. How are they going to buy EuroFighters, an even more expensive aircraft? Nobody in Europe is going to give them military aid either.

FUNDS CAN BE ARRANGE INTERNALLY BY CUTTING DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENT EXPENDITURES BUT PAF MORE FOCUSING ON JF-17 DEVELOPMENT

 

[Stephen Cohen]

This Thread is open again

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36169079

 

[fitpOsitive]

Why would US offer goodies if you are not hurting for them? In this world there are no free lunches.

yap..mmm, there must be something that Indians and rest of the world doesnot know yet.

 

[Bratva]

What's the problem? Only aid has been halted. Pakistan should it's own dime to buy these jets as almost all of the world does.

Do you know anything about a specific benefit granted to Major Non Nato Allies which is not something Pakistan specific i.e

Nations named as major non-NATO allies are eligible for the following benefits:

• entry into cooperative research and development projects with the Department of Defense (DoD) on a shared-cost basis
• participation in certain counter-terrorism initiatives
• purchase of depleted uranium anti-tank rounds
• priority delivery of military surplus (ranging from rations to ships)
• possession of War Reserve Stocks of DoD-owned equipment that are kept outside of American military bases
• loans of equipment and materials for cooperative research and development projects and evaluations
• permission to use American financing for the purchase or lease of certain defense equipment
• reciprocal training
• expedited export processing of space technology
• permission for the country's corporations to bid on certain DoD contracts for the repair and maintenance of military equipment outside the United States

 

[Spectre]

You mean to say we want a neighbour from where instability keeps pouring inside our country? No, thank you. OTOH, it is in Indian interest to keep Afghanistan volatile because that serves her short sighted goals. But that is entirely a different debate.

When one talks about Afghanistan, one must make distinction as who he is referring to as Afghanistan? Afghanistan is complex and does not function as a single entity. US placed her bet on Northern Alliance. India came flocking to exploit the situation. We knew these folks are no good and will only lead to everlasting civil war. In case you chose to ignore, we understand Afghanistan a little better. 1.6 decades and $1trillion later, US understands this. Taliban can not be defeated and a stalemate with swinging battle lines will go on. Dreams of 2001 are long gone. A negotiated solution has to be found. As it so happens, it isn't easy to negotiate with Taliban nor is it possible to control them. Pakistan can only communicate with them because of Pashtun link which is present on either side. What you like US lawmakers are suggesting will result in an uncontrollable situation. Good for India. More Afghanistan burns easier it is to spread your agenda. Bad for Pakistan and US. As I said earlier, Pakistan understands Afghanistan a little better than others. No peace will prevail unless Pashtun ethnicity gets its due part. Northern Alliance has to give up some of its powers and resources. Or the insurgency will rage on.

US congressmen can go on blaming Pakistan now but the fact is US did not listen to us. We told them Northern Alliance is bad choice. They are corrupt, incompetent and have little confidence from people of Afghanistan. Pakistan can not fix this. It's broken beyond repair. We are offering the best possible solution under the circumstances. There can be no idealistic solution in Afghanistan, I'm sorry to break the news to US lawmakers. Your best bet is to contain insurgency (ANA has failed spectacularly in this) and negotiate a ceasefire. Or else watch Afghanistan descending further in chaos. Don't believe me? You are most welcome to bring in Indian army to fight insurgency. They will get it within a year.

Should US lawmakers fail to read this complex situation, Pakistan has already put in place plan B. It should be visible to wise men by now.

In this all the clutter have you forgotten that all parties but including US and Afghan Unity Govt were ready for talks with Taliban but Taliban despite promises, just used lull of talks to regroup and attack Afghans all over again. They are not interested in talks and that much is clear by now. They just want to use the breathing space offered by talks to consolidate. Even a blind man can see this.

Hence we are at a state where US and Afghan have given clear indication that Taliban would be punished for it's duplicity and there will be no more talks with militants. Every one who wants peace can come and talk abut offensive against Taliban will go on.

I see you cheerleading Taliban but do you forget what your precious Pashtun Taliban were upto when they were given a free run of the place? The along with Osama were responsible for 1000s of deaths, terrorism, rape, child killings and basically every crime under the sun. They are no angels, they are a mad dog who must be bought to heel or shot down.

Cheers!

@A-Team

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Just bomb Afghanistan already

• Attack on school -> Afghanistan
  
• Attack on University -> Afghanistan
• AGENT captured (recently) -> Afghanistan
• Indian Agent captured (recently) -> border afghan-iran
• Taliban weapon supply -> Afghanistan via Inida
  
• Taliban = Talib + Indian = Taliban

Take over Afghanistan

Hello All
I m sorry sir but that will increase our problems by million time ,, Best thing to do is Kick all Afghan Refugees out of Pakistan almost 3 million, and put a electric boob wire wall (just like Pak-Indian Border ) and heavily mine the area ,
When the Afghans are out and Border is secure we will see dramatic decrees in terror relate accidents and it will also help to reduce and control all type of smuggling.
Thank you