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Pakistan may receive 5 Apache

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i think rehman malik was talkin about these mi 17 from usa i know some members will say mi has been made in russia how usa got it usa buyed it for transport

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U.S. military plans to lease four of its Russian-made transport helicopters to the Pakistan army to bolster its fight against the Taliban in the nation’s ungoverned northwest territories , according to U.S. and Pakistani officials.The helicopters were among the top items that Pakistan Army Chief of Staff General Ashfaq Kayani has requested in continuing talks with U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Michael Mullen, and that Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari sought during his meeting last month with U.S. President Barack Obama, the officials said.The MI-17 is a medium-weight helicopter, capable of carrying troops, performing medical evacuations and carrying out ground attacks. The four helicopters may be delivered as soon as June 8, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity.Pakistan ’s military already is using MI-17s and “has found these platforms to be very useful in their current counter-insurgency operations,” said Alan Kronstadt, a Pakistan expert with the non-partisan Congressional Research Service.Pakistan ’s leaders “urgently requested” that the U.S. provide more “to fill the gap created by the ongoing refurbishment” of its existing fleet, he said in an e-mailed statement.Pakistani security forces say they are close to driving militants from the Swat Valley and neighboring districts in the nation’s northwest after the Taliban flouted a February peace accord that introduced Islamic law in the region. The fighting has forced 3 million people to flee their homes, according to local authorities.Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman confirmed the broad outlines of the U.S. action and said details of the final delivery date are being worked out.“We are supporting Pakistan in its efforts against violent extremism,” Whitman said in a telephone interview. “The support includes various defense articles, services and training.”“Helicopters with the capacity to operate in Pakistan ’s rugged terrain are a high priority for the Pakistani Army, and we are pursuing numerous options to provide that capability, including the MI-17 option,” Whitman said.White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said the helicopters are an indication “the president is moving aggressively to provide the needed resources to address the humanitarian situation in Pakistan .”Obama has pressed the government in Islamabad to wrest control of the northwest area from extremists. The insurgency threatens the nuclear-armed country’s stability and hampers the war effort by the U.S. and NATO in neighboring Afghanistan .The four Russian-made helicopters are owned by the U.S. Army. Two are at Ramstein Air Base in Germany and two are in Slovakia . They will be flown to Pakistan on a Russian-made AN- 124 aircraft, one of the world’s largest transports, according to the officials. They said they didn’t know who owned this plane, a model used by private transport companies worldwide.Pakistan also has about 32 U.S. Cobra gunships in its inventory. The MI-17 can perform more missions than the Cobra, which is primarily designed to fire air-to-ground missiles, the officials said.The operation is being organized by the Defense Security Cooperation Agency, which manages Pentagon foreign military sales.

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those are mi 17
 
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The U.S. Army signed off on an unusual procurement contract in December 2007: A $322-million order for 22 Russian helicopters bought through a U.S. defense company for Iraq. The contract was a rush order, designed to deliver Mi-17 helicopters in a bid to quickly reequip the Iraqi air force and allow it to perform counterinsurgency operations. But 18 months after signing, not a single helicopter has been delivered, despite full payment. The Army now concedes the contract is over budget and nearly a year behind schedule.Such are the perils of buying Russian equipment through the U.S. Foreign Military Sales (FMS) system, a unique requirement that is rapidly escalating into the billions of dollars for Iraq and Afghanistan.Buying Mi-17s, and other Russian equipment, for the Iraqi military seems logical. The Iraqis flew and maintained Soviet (now Russian) aircraft in the Saddam Hussein era. Another important feature: Russian rotorcraft are significantly cheaper than U.S. helicopters, at least in theory.The Mi-17 is the export designation for the Mi-8 airframe (NATO designation “Hip”), and after 40 years the aircraft still has brisk sales, with new orders from India, China, Pakistan and Colombia, among others. That has been good news for the factories that produce Mi-17s: Ulan Ude and Kazan. Just a few years ago, work at the plants had slowed to a crawl, but now even getting a slot in the production line can be a challenge.The U.S. Defense Dept. dubs the aircraft destined for Iraq as counterterrorism helicopters. They are designed to insert and extract special forces “and provide limited air assault capability to clear and hold a landing zone, [and] provide self-protection . . . against insurgent small arms fire and SAM defenses.” The helicopters will have Western-style cockpits and modifications that include Flir Systems’ AN/AAQ-22 Star Safire electro-optical sensor and monitor; identification-friend-or-foe system with encryption; AN/AAR-60 Milds (missile-launch detection system) from EADS; and VHF/UHF/HF radios.When the helicopter contract was awarded to Arinc of Annapolis, Md., a communications and engineering company, it was, by everyone’s admission, an unusual sale. While the Army has bought Russian helicopters in the past—and modified them with Western cockpits—it never bought anything in the quantity seen for the Iraqi FMS case.In a controversial move, the Army’s Threat Systems Management Office in Huntsville, Ala., sole-sourced the contract to Arinc, rather than soliciting multiple bids. That raised questions about procurement cost. In 2001, the price of a newly refurbished Mi-17 was between $1.2 and 1.7 million, while a helicopter fresh off the production line went for around $3 million. The cost has since more than doubled, with vendors quoting new Mi-17s at around $7.5 million. But the Mi-17s for Iraq are sold for more than twice that price—between $13 and $16 million per helicopter (cost varies depending on the batch and whether spare parts and other equipment are included).Part of what drove up costs is the unusual way the contract was structured: Although Arinc is the prime contractor, it’s working essentially as an arms broker. And rather than buying the aircraft from the factory, Arinc has a contract with Air Freight Aviation, a Russian company based in the United Arab Emirates. Air Freight Aviation buys the helicopters from the Mi-17 plant at Ulan Ude and modifies them at its UAE facility.This arrangement has led to cost overruns and delays. The helicopters were supposed to be delivered starting in February, but the Defense Dept. concedes that the date for first delivery has slipped to 2010, and the contract is between 5 and 10% over the original $322-million budget. Officials insist, however, that the plan is to catch up with deliveries, completing the full contract on schedule. As of now, however, none of the helicopters has left Ulan Ude.Army officials defend the sale, arguing that the urgency of the requirement and the uniqueness of buying Russian equipment necessitated going with Arinc as a sole source. Arinc, despite its lack of experience buying Mi-17s, was selected as the contractor because the company was already in Iraq performing maintenance work on the nascent Iraqi air force’s skeleton fleet, which included older Mi-17s and Bell helicopters. Arinc also claimed to Army officials it had an exclusive relationship with the Mil helicopter plant—the design bureau. (Iraq’s Mi-17 requirement was, however, known for several years before the contract was signed, and there are over half a dozen U.S. companies with experience buying Russian helicopters and parts for the U.S. government.)To some extent, the Mi-17s illustrate the problems that have plagued weapon sales to Iraq. Since the FMS process started with Iraq in 2005, approximately $4.5 billion has been spent, but less clear is how much of that equipment has been delivered. Going through FMS—rather than direct commercial sales—was meant to avoid the mistakes and corruption that plague direct sales. In one now-infamous case, Iraq entered into a contract to buy Mi-17s from a Polish company—most of the helicopters ended up being too old or in no condition to fly.The FMS process is meant to protect Iraq from these problems, says U.S. Air Force Col. Lawrence Avery, deputy director of the security assistance office in the Multinational Security Transition Command-Iraq. “[They] view FMS as the anticorruption mechanism for their government, because nobody can get their hands on the money, nobody decides who the contracts go to,” he told reporters in a recent conference call. “That’s all done through the U.S. acquisition system.”But officials in Baghdad cite delays and confusion about the FMS process. The sales become even more convoluted when they involve a U.S. procurement process cross-matched with Russian weapons. In one particularly frustrating case, the Iraqis initiated—then canceled—a large order for BTR-3E1 armored personnel carriers that were to be bought from Ukraine through FMS.Defense Dept. officials concede that they made mistakes in the Mi-17 case for Iraq, but defend the overall process. While U.S. officials downplay the Russian FMS cases—noting they are the exception, not the rule—the truth is that these sales could prove more common over the next few years as attention moves to Afghanistan. The Pentagon has already approved a “pseudo-FMS” case for the purchase of 10 helicopters for Afghanistan for $177.5 million. That contract also went to Arinc.While FMS may guard against outright corruption, it has not done much in the case of the Mi-17s to prevent delays, or even guarantee reasonable costs. If there’s a lesson from the Iraqi helicopter case, it may be that the U.S. acquisition system is a poor conduit for Russian weaponry.“FMS works best when you buy and use what the U.S. military is buying and using, because if we give you a price on that, we’re probably pretty good about it,” says Avery. “If we’re buying equipment from countries and companies that we’ve never worked with, every problem that we run into is a new problem.”
 
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In an effort to upgrade its attack helicopter fleet, the Israel Air Force is conducting flight tests with a new version of the Black Hawk utility helicopter that has been equipped with offensive air-to-surface missile launchers. Israel has several dozen Black Hawk helicopters - called Yanshuf - which it began receiving in the 1990s. Made by Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation, the helicopter was designed in the 1970s as a utility tactical transport aircraft for the United States Air Force. The helicopter can carry a squad of a dozen troops with equipment or alternatively carry over one ton of equipment.

The US has a variant of the Black Hawk that is used for special operations and is equipped with Hellfire missiles, an automatic cannon as well as 70mm rockets. The arming of the Black Hawk is being done jointly by the IAF, Sikorsky and several local defense contractors. One of the helicopters has already successfully test-fired an air-to-surface missile. The helicopter has also been equipped with a rapid-fire cannon that sits under the aircraft's belly. The IAF, sources said, does not plan at this stage to equip all of its Black Hawk helicopters with offensive capabilities but is conducting the tests to see if the possibility exists should a decision to do so be made in the future.

At the same time, the IAF is close to finalizing negotiations with Boeing to upgrade at least six additional Apache attack helicopters in an effort to bolster the air support the IAF is able to provide ground forces in future operations in Lebanon and the Gaza Strip.The plan is to upgrade several of its old "A" model Apache helicopters to the "D" model Longbow version with the above-rotor advanced radar system, which enables the helicopter to share targeting data with other Longbows.

According to foreign reports, Israel has 37 "A" model Apaches and 11 Longbows.IAF plans are to establish a second squadron of Apache Longbows within the coming decade. Three Apache helicopters - including one Longbow - were lost during the Second Lebanon War. In one incident, two Apaches collided in midair. In the other case, the Longbow crashed due to a malfunction in the rotor.
Posted by ASIAN DEFENCE at 10:06 PM 1 comments
Labels: Helicopter, israel
 
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An attack derivative of the Surion utility helicopter is shaping up as a likely project to sustain Korea Aerospace Industries’ hard-won aeronautics development skills. As the engineering effort on the Surion winds down, other projects that could keep the company’s engineers busy include a civil aircraft, such as the regional jet revealed last year, and the KFX fighter.

The need for development work is clearly driving the push for a home-grown attack helicopter, since foreign producers already offer advanced models whose price and performance could be difficult for Korea Aerospace, a new arrival in the rotary-wing business, to improve on. The South Korean government and industry are considering four alternative schemes under the Korean Attack Helicopter program to fill the requirement for 274 aircraft to replace about 70 Bell AH-1Ss and 270 Hughes 500s from 2018:

•A simple addition of stub wings and weapons to the Surion. With 87% commonality with the Surion, development of this model would take four years and cost 200 billion won ($160 million), Korea Aerospace says. The unit price would be 21 billion won. •A new stepped cockpit grafted on to the Surion cabin, along with the wings and weapon systems, with 73% commonality. Development time and cost would rise to five years and 700 billion won, and unit cost to 23.1 billion won.

•A new body, including cockpit, but otherwise retaining as much as possible from the Surion, notably the power train, and offering 63% commonality. This aircraft would need six years and up to 1 trillion won for development and would cost 24.8 billion won per unit.

•An attack helicopter unrelated to the Surion. This could be an adaptation of a foreign design.

None of these concepts will be free from criticism.

The first two seem to be highly compromised in the quest for commonality, since the engines would have to haul around the mass of a transport helicopter body that would offer little advantage in an attack mission while offering a larger, more sluggish target.


The second option is visually similar to the 12-ton Mil Mi-24 assault and attack helicopter, but the South Korean aircraft would not act in such a role, striking from the air and landing infantry to assault from the ground. A scale model shows that the design has no large doors for infantry, and that the cabin could be obstructed by carry-through structure of the mid-mounted wings.

All three proposed derivatives may be open to the charge they are bigger than necessary, a result of the choice of the power train from the 8.7-metric-ton Surion.

The Korean Attack Helicopter program has been aimed at developing a light- to medium-size aircraft, akin to the 6-ton Eurocopter Tiger. South Korea’s AH-1s have a 4.5-ton maximum weight.

But the rating of the Surion’s two General Electric T700-GE-701K turboshafts—each at 1,383 kw. (1,854 hp.) for 10 min.—would put an attack derivative in the same class as the Boeing AH-64 Apache, which has a design mission gross weight of 8 tons and an overload ferry-mission weight of 10.4 tons.

The South Korean armed forces have sought Apaches, but only 36. That effort may be dropped in favor of the Korean Attack Helicopter.

If the proposal for an aircraft unrelated to the Surion produced an all-new design, it would face criticism as a costly reinvention of what was already available. A new helicopter would, however, offer to greatly extend the rotary-wing skills that Korea Aerospace has learned from developing Surion with help from Eurocopter.

Any of the three derivative designs would add to the considerable production run of components for the 245 Surions that the armed forces and government have said are required. A derivative attack helicopter would result in South Korea building 519 related helicopters.

Foreign support for attack helicopter development would also be likely, with Eurocopter well placed for the work.

The Surion has been developed under the Korean Utility Helicopter program, the survivor of the former Korean Multirole Helicopter program, which also encompassed an attack helicopter until that element was dropped in January 2005 to reduce development risks.

The attack derivatives of the Surion therefore revive the original proposal for two helicopter types under a single broad program.

One military official tells the Yonhap news agency that development must begin next year for entry into service by 2018. The national security council directed in 2005 that no decision on the attack helicopter be taken before an assessment of the Surion, now due by October 2010. The finance ministry is accordingly refusing to release the first 3 billion won of development funding for the attack helicopter until then.
Posted by ASIAN DEFENCE at 12:24 AM 0 comments
Labels: Helicopter, South Korea
South Korean rocket fails to reach full orbit

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Russia is concluding talks with Saudi Arabia on selling 30 Mi-171B helicopters, a source close to the negotiations said. "We are in a final stage of talks on the purchase of 30 helicopters and hope to sign the deal in September," the source told RIA Novosti. The Mi-171 is an export version of the Mi-8 Hip multipurpose helicopter. Currently in production at two factories in the Russian Volga city of Kazan and the East Siberian city of Ulan-Ude, it features more powerful turbo-shaft engines and can carry up to 37 passengers.

The Arab state has traditionally bought only Western, mainly U.S.-made, civilian and military equipment, but has recently expressed an interest in acquiring Russian weaponry, including S-400 air defense systems, T-90 tanks, BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles, and various types of helicopters. Russian analysts linked the Saudi interest in Russian weapons with a change in the kingdom's political priorities and the difficulties it has encountered in purchasing weaponry from the West since the September 11 terrorist attacks, masterminded and performed mostly by Saudi citizens.

Russia's Kommersant newspaper reported in July that Russia and Saudi Arabia discussed a number of deals worth an estimated $4 billion a year and a half ago, when the country's Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal visited Moscow. Saudi Arabia's defense budget currently exceeds $33 billion, and is expected to reach $44 billion in 2010.
 
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The US is shipping 17 Strykers, its most modern fighting vehicles which lead many ground operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, to India for the largest joint army exercise between the two countries. This will be the largest deployment of Strykers by the US outside Iraq and Afghanistan.

The exercise will be the latest in a series of drills called Yudh Abhyas that has so far been wargamed on counter-insurgency themes. The deployment of the Stryker armoured fighting vehicles — designed to be more agile but with the firepower of tanks — alongside a formation of the Indian armoured corps suggests the level and intensity of Yudh Abhyas is being scaled up.

The Strykers will be shipped from Hawaii, the headquarters of the US Pacific Command, to Mumbai and then taken either by air or road to Babina near Jhansi in Uttar Pradesh. Babina is the headquarters of the Indian Army’s 31 armoured division. The division is an element of the 21 Strike Corps and trained to lead ground operations in desert and semi-desert terrain on the India-Pakistan border. The 31 division has T-72 Russian-origin tanks and is currently being re-equipped with the later-generation T-90 tanks.

Yudh Abhyas-09, scheduled for the second fortnight of October, will coincide with a major India-US Air Forces’ exercise that will be centred in Agra. The US will deploy C-130J Hercules for the latest edition of the Cope India series of wargames. Six of the Lockheed Martin-made aircraft for medium cargo lifts and special forces operations have been contracted by the Indian Air Force. The US will also fly in the much bigger C-17 Globemaster made by Boeing. The Indian Air Force has projected a need for a heavy lift transport aircraft in the category of the Globemaster. But the government has not yet called for proposals from prospective sellers.

The Agra base is home to the Indian Air Force’s transport and refueller aircraft and to the special forces’ Parachute Training School. An army source said the configuration of the Indian deployment for the land forces’ exercise, most likely to be held in the field firing ranges near Babina, was still being worked out. The US Stryker has replaced or is replacing most of the Bradley fighting vehicles that, along with the M1A1 Abrams tanks, the Humvee and the Hummer, led the charge into Iraq from Kuwait in 2003. Subsequently, the US army chief, General Eric Shinseki, formulated the idea of Stryker Brigade Combat Teams that are the mobile land components in the wars. The Stryker is capable of carrying 11 troops in its infantry-carrying version. But it can also be used for heavier mobile firepower and mounted with cannons and mortars. It is also used for medical evacuation and as a mobile command centre.
Posted by ASIAN DEFENCE at 9:47 PM 0 comments
Labels: Armoured Vehicles, India, USA
 
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Apaches would be very helpful if those are being offered. They can also target tanks
 
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Can't Pakistan scrap a few together. We got loads of them lying around from the soviet invasion I understand this will take time but its worth it if were going to own them. Possibly even get unintentional transfer of tech
 
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Hi, 5 Apaches would be a colossal waste of money. Think of all the money training pilots, air crews, maintenance crews, etc just for 5 helos. It makes no sense, and most of all, once again this is sanction prone equipment. Take care.
 
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Apache? Yet another wet dream :)


Why not go for Turkish Gunships .. There is a thread about those helos on this forum..
Looks good value for money,and Turkey may be easier to give Pakistan Transfer of technology,compared to USA.
 
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I think the helos would be specially build to accommodate Rehman saheb at the best.

Don't live in "ehmaqooon ki jannat" by dreaming about Apaches. FYI we are not even offered the "hellfire" missiles and you're desiring for the entire machine?

c'mon utho beta ankhein kholo, bister choro aur moon haath dholo......
 
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