What's new

Pakistan is a distinct land, historically almost always seperate from India

Agar firdaus bar roo-e zameen ast,
Hameen ast-o hameen ast-o hameen ast.

If there is a paradise on earth,
It is this, it is this, it is this

Lol Aryan, you seem in an awfully good mood today!!

Anyways as I understand it, the entire subcontinent was known to the people outside it as "India" or some form of the word "India".

Before Independence it was united under the British flag as "British India". When the British left, it was split into Islamic Pakistan and Secular India, with territories being distributed according to the percentage of muslim population.

India has several difference races/cultures/religions that share certain common characteristics which make them distinctly Indian.
 
.
Lol Aryan, you seem in an awfully good mood today!!

Just being me:crazy:

Anyways as I understand it, the entire subcontinent was known to the people outside it as "India" or some form of the word "India".

The greeks called it Indika.. the Arabs Hind...
actually if anyone wants to read account of ancient India.. in Arrian's works etc. one can find out the lands comprising of ancient India/Indian subcontinent were distinctly different from "foreign lands" ... aka Persia and china etc.. and had their own peculiarites.. for that matter even Akbars akbarnama is an interesting read..

Before Independence it was united under the British flag as "British India".

Before British and Aurangzeb it was united under Mogul India

When the British left, it was split into Islamic Pakistan and Secular India, with territories being distributed according to the percentage of muslim population.

Territories being decided by general elections held in 46.. with constituencies voting for Muslim League going to Pakistan and with COngress going to India..

India has several difference races/cultures/religions that share certain common characteristics which make them distinctly Indian.

What are the common characteristics b/w kashmiris and Malaylees?? what is common b/w Assamese and Punjabis???

The thing is that none of these people ever invaded foreigners, or attacked first till date(Pakistanis will disagree nodoubt)
they held humanity/freedom/equality as the highest goal and let people practise different religions
they were never into slavery,(pt of contention.. it was never legally or religiously sanctioned)
many of their pilgrimage sites etc were scattered all over
they all live in peace with one another
their languages are derived from Sanskrit
their customs are derived from a set of basic ancient customs

Hinduism(not HIndu religion per se but Hinduism as a way of life) and Humanity is the binding cord of India..simple..
 
.
It's more then just religion that divides India and Pakistan. I know a few Indian Muslims and they are very different then Pakistanis. Looks, language, culture and there attitude is different then people from Pakistan.

And we can straight away tell the difference from a Indian Muslim and a Pakistani, it's the looks that give it away. It's kinda like how a Bengali is different from a Pakistani unless you want to start calling them Indian too.

I admire Indian educational abilities but we have the strength and the looks. :pakistan:

Even in Indian Punjab which is the one Indian province that bears similarity to Pakistan there is alot of differences. We speak different dialects of Punjabi, different culture again even though it's quite similar there are plenty of differences such as food (indians dont eat as much meat. something to do with there religions).
 
.
It's more then just religion that divides India and Pakistan. I know a few Indian Muslims and they are very different then Pakistanis. Looks, language, culture and there attitude is different then people from Pakistan.


Well if those Muslims are not Punjabi or Kashmiri or Pathan then you will find them pretty different.. I for one cannot tell apart..


PS:did you know that ajay devgun is a East Punjabi and that Kareena Kapoor is half Sindhi and half Pishori Punjabi and AMitabh Bachchan is half sikh from Pakistan or that Uday Chopra is a west Punjabi??


It is impossible to say for sure which person is which..


And we can straight away tell the difference from a Indian Muslim and a Pakistani, it's the looks that give it away.

then you must be good at spotting Muhajirs too..;)
well I can't... I thought Sami was Hazara or Nepalese...

It's kinda like how a Bengali is different from a Pakistani unless you want to start calling them Indian too.

calling who Indian???
bengalis are bengalis and are Indians...

I admire Indian educational abilities but we have the strength and the looks. :pakistan:

Okay... we are ugly and weak.. happy..

Even in Indian Punjab which is the one Indian province that bears similarity to Pakistan there is alot of differences.

Indian Punjab has been trifuracted have a look at my profile pic.. for the complete United Punjab..

We speak different dialects of Punjabi,

Faisalabadi, jhangi, majhi/lahori, seraiki, potohari are the dialects native to Pakistani Punjab but not necessarily to Pakistani
ssimilarly doabi, malwi, patialvi, bhatinda, dogri are native to Indian Punjab

many people who migrated from Pakistan still use the west Punjab dialects and have actually named their companies, colonies after their native cities.. like for example.. Lahori di hatti, karachi transport company, bhera enclave.. some call themselves after their native places cities or villages.. for example Chotalla, badal, Lyallpuri etc..

different culture again even though it's quite similar there are plenty of differences such as food (indians dont eat as much meat. something to do with there religions).

Indians on a whole eat less meat.. but North Indians are hardcore meat eaters
mostly and you guys don't drink openly we do big time...

(actually I just went to Karim's for my breakfast of Nihari and Haleem in the Jama Masjid area (its a muslim dominated area but there were hardly any muslims for breakfast today???))


Dude if you want to prove you are superior then no point debting I give up.. if you want to prove that there are no overlapping of bloodlines then I can debate.. okay??


ps:Here attached is a pic of a friend could you tell me is this dude Indian or Pakistani Muslim?? and why??
 

Attachments

  • 33912817.jpg
    33912817.jpg
    4.5 KB · Views: 17
.
Well if those Muslims are not Punjabi or Kashmiri or Pathan then you will find them pretty different.. I for one cannot tell apart..


PS:did you know that ajay devgun is a East Punjabi and that Kareena Kapoor is half Sindhi and half Pishori Punjabi and AMitabh Bachchan is half sikh from Pakistan or that Uday Chopra is a west Punjabi??


It is impossible to say for sure which person is which..

Well thats my whole point, Pakistanis due to there various ethnicities look different then Indian muslims whom are mainly non punjabi. As such it's not just religion that divides us.

then you must be good at spotting Muhajirs too..
well I can't... I thought Sami was Hazara or Nepalese...

Don't know any muhajirs and I don't think they make up that much of Pakistan's population. But usually should be able to tell, there will be exceptions of course.

calling who Indian???
bengalis are bengalis and are Indians...

In your initial post you described the whole of the subcontinent as India and that we all shared common ties by that logic pakistanis and bengalis are indians. This is not true though.

Okay... we are ugly and weak.. happy..

I never said that, your different doesn't mean your ugly. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and is found everywhere.

Indian Punjab has been trifuracted have a look at my profile pic.. for the complete United Punjab..

Too small.

Faisalabadi, jhangi, majhi/lahori, seraiki, potohari are the dialects native to Pakistani Punjab but not necessarily to Pakistani
ssimilarly doabi, malwi, patialvi, bhatinda, dogri are native to Indian Punjab

many people who migrated from Pakistan still use the west Punjab dialects and have actually named their companies, colonies after their native cities.. like for example.. Lahori di hatti, karachi transport company, bhera enclave.. some call themselves after their native places cities or villages.. for example Chotalla, badal, Lyallpuri etc..

Well you've prooved my point again different dialects in different nations. I never knew any of them Indian dialects existed and tbh I only know of three of them pakistani dialects and only speak one.

The migrants from Pakistan are in the minority and are not the norm.

Indians on a whole eat less meat.. but North Indians are hardcore meat eaters
mostly and you guys don't drink openly we do big time...

(actually I just went to Karim's for my breakfast of Nihari and Haleem in the Jama Masjid area (its a muslim dominated area but there were hardly any muslims for breakfast today???))


Dude if you want to prove you are superior then no point debting I give up.. if you want to prove that there are no overlapping of bloodlines then I can debate.. okay??


ps:Here attached is a pic of a friend could you tell me is this dude Indian or Pakistani Muslim?? and why??

Well quite a few Sikhs I know don't eat meat due to religious reasons. But yeh Sikhs are known for drinking alot. Here in England Pakistanis are just as bad.

As for your friend the picture is too small and unclear and I was born in England I can tell apart british born indians and pakistanis most of the time. It will be harder with desis but if I saw them in reality or had a good photo I guess I could.
 
.
India didn't even exist before 1947.. it was Bharat-- Hindustan-- the land of hindus.
 
.
Obviously Indians on the whole look the same to foreigners, to us we can point out the difference.. to me all Chinky people look the same so do all blacks..
but these guys can usually differentiate amongst themselves..
even twins can differentiate amongst themselves.. ;-)

Well foreigners have a perspective of Indians being the same, a myopic viewpoint. When I told one Iranian that I was Pakistani he was surprised, he thought pakistanis were very similar in appearence to Indians. I do agree that we have similarities, mainly in skin colour but I think most people can notice the difference.

In my experience Pakistanis are generally physically fitter, taller on average, skin tone between Indian Punjabis and Pakistani punjabis/azad kashmir is generally similar with Pakistanis having more fairer individuals. Oh and our women are by far hotter, you know thats true. :smokin:

The way I usually tell apart Indians and Pakistanis is height and physical structure. Pakistanis being taller and more muscular.

been to Karachi??? heard of MQM??
Most Indian muslims in UK are kutchi/Gujarati and are similar to sindhis...

Never been to karachi but heard of MQM, sounds like a bunch of parasites who need to be exterminated. Yes gujaratis they are a interesting lot, but even then they look different from Pakistanis.

before 1947 we were all Indians.. and had different regional ethnicities..


There is no ethnicity which defines all of Indians or Pakistanis or all South Asians... we are an ammalgamation and in the broader ammalgamation Indians and Pakistanis are same.. and conventionally called Indians.. we are different from say Persians and Chinese are 2 neighbours.. and are similar to each other..


Well just goto NWFP or Northern Areas of Kashmir and then goto south India, two different racesand any non ****/indian can tell that. And no were not called Indians were called Pakistanis.

It's like saying French and Spanish are the same.

If you are not white or black or Chinese I think if we both put our fotos people will club us together than you with British or me with chinese if you know what I mean... (exceptions are there though)

Well obviously appearence wise we have more in common then say chinese or english people but that doesn't mean we look the same. Spanish and Scandinavian people are both of the European races yet they can look totally different.

Within each race there's alot of sub races that are different to each other.

this is a contentious Issue but baptised Sikhs are not supposed to drink eat halal, meat, alcohol, cut hair or gamble...

Yes but many do not abide by the laws..

Brit Sikhs are sissies mate..
I hate 'em.. as much as I hate any Brit Asian.. you guys are backwards...

lol backwards? At least we don't believe in caste. :P

I was there in UK for studies.. I can tell them apart in a sec.. but with Indian born or Pakistani born students I could not.. still can't.. British born snap of a finger..

which city are you from.. Studied in Sheffield and Nottingham.. lovely cities..

I'm from Birmingham, near Nottingham. Yup see you can tell apart british born indians/pakis very easily. That shows to me there's something different.

As for desis well I don't have much experience so im not sure about your friend. Would be easier if I had a full frontal photo showing height. Still I admit I find it hard, that is due to me being unfamiliar with desis though someone familiar with desis should know.
 
. . .
Well, typically Pakistani Muslims were the one who created and freed the land which is now India. So it makes sense.

....who did they free the land from? They got conquered by the Islamic raiders, and all got converted, while those in India resisted losing their idenity.

....as far as Freedom Struggle is concerned, kindly tell me how many of the founders of Pakistan were involved protesting british rule?

...Webby, I suggest you study history from a little less Pakistan-centric perspective....

If you are talking about Alexander's rule over Pakistan, try to remember that Porus got defeated, whereas Alexander's army refused to attack further because the king in the east was too strong.

So every time, it was the Pakistanis who got conquered and opened the floodgates to invaders.
 
.
India didn't even exist before 1947.. it was Bharat-- Hindustan-- the land of hindus.

Lol....ain't that funny....and I'm guessing the name India is actually copyright Pakistan?


Nope India did exist..

The English term is from Greek Ἰνδία, via Latin India. Ἰνδία in Byzantine (Koine Greek) ethnography denotes the region beyond the Ἰνδός river, since Herodotus (5th century BC) ἡ Ἰνδική χώρη "Indian land", Ἰνδός "an Indian", from Avestan Hinduš (referring to Sindh, and listed as a conquered territory by Darius I in the Persepolis terrace inscription). The name is derived ultimately from Sindhu, the Sanskrit name of the river, but also meaning "river" generically. Latin India is used by Lucian (2nd century).

If you want I'll dig up scholarly sources, to back the above claim...


Hindustan --> means land of Hindus.. Hindus in persian means dark coloured... so it is the land of browns :enjoy: .. but another theory exists..


The genesis of the word "Hindu", according to Dr. S. Radhakrishnan(Freedom Fighter)
“ "The Hindu civilization is so called since its original founders or earliest followers occupied the territory drained by the Sindhu (the Indus) River system corresponding to the Northwest Frontier Province and the Punjab. This is recorded in the Rig Veda, the oldest of the Vedas, the Hindu scriptures, which give their name to this period of Indian history. The people on the Indian side of the Sindhu were called Hindus by the Persians and the later Western invaders. That is the genesis of the word Hindu"

This is the definition of Hindus as given by Supreme Court of India and is accepted by all people who are living in India..

In 1995, Chief Justice P. B. Gajendragadkar was quoted in an Indian Supreme Court ruling...

When we think of the Hindu religion, we find it difficult, if not impossible, to define Hindu religion or even adequately describe it. Unlike other religions in the world, the Hindu religion does not claim any one prophet; it does not worship any one God; it does not subscribe to any one dogma; it does not believe in any one philosophic concept; it does not follow any one set of religious rites or performances; in fact, it does not appear to satisfy the narrow traditional features of any religion or creed. It may broadly be described as a way of life and nothing more.



I personally don't know why Pakistani are so stuck up on Hindus, clubbing them all together.. Hell these guys don't even in intermarry even if their castes are same.. and they have such different customs which change in every distt. IMO.. there is no rallying cry for Hindus as such.... I mean a Pakistani may be having more knoweledgeable(the wrong kind) of Hinduism than an avg HIndu himself.. I think these guys are **** when it comes to their religion..


I think HInduism is a treasure trove of knowledge.. which should be greedily used by one and all. I have read many Hinduism books and I have thoroughly enjoyed them..

Hinduism's main goal is acharya parmo dharma.. RIghtConduct/Morality/Ethics/Behaviour is the first religion...

If Hindus were so anti-Muslim the Muslim pop would have been allowed to reach the level of pre-partition time(percentage wise).... Look at China to see how they oppress Muslims but an avg Pakistani cannot and will not speak against them but we Indians are the fall boys.. :welcome: to :pakistan:


Well foreigners have a perspective of Indians being the same, a myopic viewpoint.

can ya differentiate b/w an Irish, an english, a welsh or the scot by looking at the foto?? mannerisms are different.. subcultures are more pronounced..

When I told one Iranian that I was Pakistani he was surprised, he thought pakistanis were very similar in appearence to Indians. I do agree that we have similarities, mainly in skin colour but I think most people can notice the difference.

By mannerisms you can... by physical differences nah mate.. go to any UNi's INTL society and see if you can tell apart Pakistanis from Indians....

In my experience Pakistanis are generally physically fitter, taller on average, skin tone between Indian Punjabis and Pakistani punjabis/azad kashmir is generally similar with Pakistanis having more fairer individuals.

given
you guys are taller by how many inches?? are you as tall as a Dutch??
are fairer by how many shades?? are you as fair as even a Persian??
these are silly points to fight on..
in UK most of the Pakistanis are from Kashmir or Punjab and hence your view is skewed...

Oh and our women are by far hotter, you know thats true. :smokin:

I have never seen anyone heard to look through the Burkha
(is that too below the belt?? :smokin:)

The way I usually tell apart Indians and Pakistanis is height and physical structure. Pakistanis being taller and more muscular.

I mean every tall and fit guy will be Pakistani.. do you want me to believe that every Pakistani is a look alike of Amir Khan(the boxer)??

dude anamolies exist everywhere.. if you can tell apart because of height etc.. but the others cannot.. you are looking at a small sample go to Pakistan and India..

it is to do with genetics as well.. the avg height of a UK born Asian is higher than their subconti counterparts because of better nutrition and optimal utilisation of their growth potential....


Never been to karachi but heard of MQM, sounds like a bunch of parasites who need to be exterminated.
a ha without meeting people from the biggest city of your country you have started judging...

Yes gujaratis they are a interesting lot, but even then they look different from Pakistanis.

they ought to.. though Amisha Patel and Upen Patel are Gujaratis so is Owais Shah...

Well just goto NWFP or Northern Areas of Kashmir and then goto south India, two different racesand any non ****/indian can tell that.

South Indian belong to Dravidian Race, Punjabis to Indo-Aryan Race and Pashtuns and Baloch to Iranic Race...
Pashtuns(not Punjabi Pathans) are much different from Punjabis too...

And no were not called Indians were called Pakistanis.

before 1947 all people in Pakistan and India and Bangladesh were called Indians and Pashtuns were called either Pashtuns or Afghans...

It's like saying French and Spanish are the same.

basque people are common to both and are different from Spanish catalonian and spanish spanish...(heard of Baracelona and Real Madrid Rivalry??)
even France has lots of variations.. Corsicans are def more Italian then French...

Well obviously appearence wise we have more in common then say chinese or english people but that doesn't mean we look the same.

Its not that every Pakistani looks similar to each other... but for all practical purposes Pakistani Punjabis look similar to North Indians.. Sindhi Pakistanis look similar to Rajasthani and Gujarati Indians.. Pashtun Pakistanis look similar to Afghanistanis and Baloch Pakistanis look Similar to Baloch Iranians..

Spanish and Scandinavian people are both of the European races yet they can look totally different.

Sindhis and Pashtuns are both Pakistani yet look totally different...

Within each race there's alot of sub races that are different to each other.

Sub race?
there are differences because of genetics.. a race means a common ancestor or a group of common ancestors .. rest is just genetics and addition of outside specimens etc..

Like for example.. you marry a fair light eyed kashmiri(not the Mirpuri 1).. your kids genes will be fundamentally altered,,, so your descendants at times may have the sudden appearance of some Kashmiri characterisitics etc.... or cousins marry amongst themselves etc.

that is why the jatts/tirkhans say we are not a caste but a race

lol backwards? At least we don't believe in caste. :P

If I prove it is practised by Muslims in south asia ???


Yes but many do not abide by the laws..

proved yo self backwards.. heard of Bradford/Southall/Leicester?? been there?? one is a Muslim the other Sikh the third Hindu pieca crap.. except the food these are all shyt areas full of Backward people...

I'm from Birmingham, near Nottingham.

Bham is nice.. a lot tougher than other areas, a friend was mugged,
Soho Road is crazy...

Yup see you can tell apart british born indians/pakis very easily. That shows to me there's something different.

different In their subculture, make 'em all sit in the same clothes and hair style and facial hair then they all ought to the look the same...

As for desis well I don't have much experience so im not sure about your friend. Would be easier if I had a full frontal photo showing height.

~5'11"-6'

Still I admit I find it hard, that is due to me being unfamiliar with desis though someone familiar with desis should know.

Mate the thing is.. if a non desi can pik 'em out.. then we are different else we are same...
 
.
Well, typically Pakistani Muslims were the one who created and freed the land which is now India. So it makes sense.

....as far as Freedom Struggle is concerned, kindly tell me how many of the founders of Pakistan were involved protesting british rule?
....who did they free the land from? They got conquered by the Islamic raiders, and all got converted, while those in India resisted losing their idenity.


thank you..


...Webby, I suggest you study history from a little less Pakistan-centric perspective....

and shall I add less Islam-centric...

If you are talking about Alexander's rule over Pakistan, try to remember that Porus got defeated, whereas Alexander's army refused to attack further because the king in the east was too strong.

Porus is identified as Purshottam, A Sabharwal Khukrain Khatri,(possible folklore) and is kingdom was in Jhelum... in pre-Islamic times..

Porus though was defeated but he was then made theSartrap of lands even beyond his Kingdom so in the end he was victorious..

So every time, it was the Pakistanis who got conquered and opened the floodgates to invaders.

Punjab was naturally the province which bore the brunt of first invasion..

The first blame lies with Rajputs.. they invited Babur to help them fight the Islamic sultanates and later Babur back stabbed and he defeated the Rajputs( though Rajputs put a very valiant to the last stand effort).. and created the first Pan-Indian Muslim Kingdom..

But if it weren't from some stiff resistance from Punjabis all of India would have been Muslim.. In the words of the famous Muslim poet of the era, Sayyad Bulleh Shah:
"I do not speak of here or there, I only speak the truth; Had there not been a Gobind Singh ji, all would be circumcized"


the Invasions from Punjab were stopped and repulsed for the first time by Punjabis under Maharaja Ranjit Singh's able General Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa...
and even to this day Pashtun kids piss their pants when they hear the phrase Hari Raglee.. aka Hari is coming..


anyways, to conclude
I don't see a Pakistani accepting that Pakistan or Pakistanis are indeed similar to Indians..even if they look alike..or if they look as hot as Kareena ;-) this makes Pakistanis as per my observation unpatriotic...
Regards..
 
.
I see, thanks for the explanation.

So what was the unification land called before the creation of India and Pakistan?

British India. India did not exist as a country before partition. It was part of an Empire, a colony.
 
.
As an American and outsider, this is how I see the people of India and Pakistan.

I think they are the same people, only separated by the British.

Pakistan has been seperated from India throughout history.

  • Pakistan was part of Afghan Empires for centuries for example, when India (I shall call it Bharat from now), was not.
  • Pakistan was part of Persian Empires (Archemid) for centuries, when Bharat was not.
  • Pakistan was part of Greek Empires, when India was not.

Now, before I get hostile replies from people that might get offended by this, I want to clarify that is my understanding and history of the Indian and Pakistan people.

If my understanding is false, please explain and let me know, one again, no offences

There are plenty of other ways. Pakistani people do not on average look like Indian people. Ignore these odd examples of individuals "Aryan2007" is putting up....I could for example show you Pakistanis that are blonder and more blue eyed than 99.99% of the Scandinavian population. They are rare though, but do exist. What's important is averages. On average when you take each country as a whole, Pakistan has a different look, a different character to Bharat.
 
. .

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom