Pakistan in talks with US to procure latest F-16 jets: Air chief

[IceCold]

What about the false flag operations ??? what about the terrorists of India, and what about the RAW funded terrorism in Pakistan and TTP(being operated by RAW) and what about the terrorism that they did in 1971(already boosting about it in Media)... what about Balochistan, they already are funding terrorism in our porvince, and Karachi.. ?????? open ur eyes before making such suggestions.. The term terrorism is being manipulated by USA/ISRAEL/INDIA to their advantage... i have 1 suggestion for you,. STOP SPREADING THE BULLSHIT.. Thanks.

Bhai problem yeh ha kah cheez un ki ha, woh zabardasti to da nahi raha, abb yeh to huma dekhna chaie na kah agar aik dost america jaisa ha to phir kisi ko dushman ki kya zaroorat? Pata nahi yeh F-16s kab ja ker humeri jaan chorin ga?

 

[araz]

View attachment 286000

J10b with domestic Taihang engine had entered into service, why Pakistan choose to ignore it ? F16 is not some alien tech, if Yankee don't wanna sell, let it be.

DSI/canards configuration/AESA/ domestic engine with 14 tons thrust, F16 has no advantage at all when it face J10b no matter BVR or WVR.if I was Yankee, I will laugh in the night in the bed when Pakistan budget so much for F16.

Whatever is in J10 will find its way into JFT sooner or later. Problem with PAF is with :
A). Sensors and software where J10B lags behind inspite of the huge strides it has taken .
B). The infrastructure and setup cost of a newer platform outweigh the benefits.
PAFs thrust seems to be towards a 5th generation platform along with JFTs and a few F16s. Everything else is a bonus and an icing on the cake. If the 16s do not get approved and J31s are not ready/ inducted, and an urgent need arises due to our helpful neighbours, PAF may well go for a twin engined platform in small number to supplement the deficiency. Otherwise it will be more 16s plus JFT and J31 when it is ready.
My 2paisas worth.
A

 

[rockstar08]

I doubt more F-16 block 52's are coming ...
Used and old block's may find their way to PAF but i don't think USA will give us more 52's or V block

 

[The Eagle]

The US has said yesterday (the White house sec) that Pakistan will decide on when to investigate the incident. There is no "must" condition. But there is total commitment involved here. Modi was pushed by the US to go to Pakistan. This was almost "enforced" by the US on India, based on NS and RS's trip.

Many of you guys on here think the Pakistani Army is a force of supermen, but that simply isn't true. The Generals visiting Islamabad and the PM paint a very different picture. Which is, we must want peace with India as the Pak Army cant fight India the way it did in the 65's. That's the reality. Gen RS has given NS full commitment in growing the country and in establishing PR across the globe (which has been a very successful by NS), so these are the REAL realities that exist.

Now back to the US, due to these realities and full understanding of on the ground events, the US used her influence and pushed Modi. Now think about it, the US did it for Pakistan's sake. So its natural to expect the other side will hold their side of the bargain too. There is a reason why the Military and the Civil leadership continue to issue statements that they'll work with India in identifying where the issues are, and if the right amounts of proofs are provided, they will act on it.

There is no "must do", but the US has stick its neck out for peace to be established between the two countries. The F-16 issue is a separate issue but you can bet that Indian lobby will bring it out. So at some point, with the elections coming closer, these two issues will be tied together. Knowing NS's negotiation style a little bit from his American fans from the US administration, I am sure he'll find a way. But that way will be ensuring American involvement to establish peace won't go to waste.

If I did something nice to help you and your enemy, and you gave me a commitment, I'd expect you to follow through as I put my neck out there for you. If you don't follow through, you obviously don't care, and have wasted my reputation also. Its really as simple as that. At the end, if these two issues (the sad events and the F-16's) can be managed separately, obviously, that's what everyone wants. But all parties have to work towards their agreed upon commitments for it to happen. If I was to guess, the F-16's for Pakistan will more than likely be approved. I can't see a NO to 8 or 18 F-16's, and even some used ones too.

You are how biased about our Army, I can see that here so I have an advice for you. To avoid any such embarrassment for imposing your wishes here on Pakistan by spitting vinom against Army, better not to. You are running here like a headless chicken. Hopefully, US wouldn't be dealing things like what you are stating here otherwise god knows. Look at this ...... start with demonising the Army...... then sing a song for PM......... India is superior to us just because the coward visited Pakistan uninvited I must say uninvited. .... If US asked him to visit then must have asked to go full retard with a false flag so everyone will say look Modi visited as US said now Pak must bow because of attacks..... oh look we are forcing them...... look we insulted their Army and no response....... oh look we told them that it's not 65.......

But here tell you must, it is indeed not 65. We are safely Nuclear too.

I hope you have understood much here in above.

See, this is how you talk like when I responded softly you came with hue and cry against Army....

US attacks only them who couldn't fight back so brought proxies. This how US bring peace to the region as since the day they enter it is at unrest till now.

We have favored US as well.

Either you have lost your mind and trying to defame US policy or soon US will end like USSR if this the policy.

16s will come but not like after bashing Army or Pakistan neither any comprises to the sovereignty. Pakistan will place an order for new ones as ACM stated earlier as well so if congress do not approved then will see though US is not an option alone. 16s are American's crafts so it is upto them they want to sell or not. No one is forcing either this or that side.

 

[MastanKhan]

The "Do More", or anything else, was America's fault? Or a lousy dictator and a lousy general who couldn't manage to negotiate with the Americans properly? Mind you, in his time, there was just a phone call made. In Zardari's time (even with him being a mother of corruption), there was an ACTUAL attack on Salala check post. Guess what? the actual attack got an apology and an agreement out of it. But a mere phone call got the general to agree to everything without questioning or asking fro economic benefits or anything else in return!!!! So blame the people who are handling things correctly because they don't know how to negotiate!! Don't blame others. Others will treat you based on your mental set you are showing to the world!!

Hi,.

The intentional attack on Salala never got an apology---.

The DO MORE issue----that should have been blamed on the cowardice of TOMMY FRANKS --- JOHN ABIZAID---two cowards who could not do their jobs---did not have the ballz to stand up to Rummy.

Please stop BSing about that ONE PHONE CALL----that was the best decision for pakistan.

It is the pakistani public who screwed up and had no clue when to do what---. What made the General agree---you will never know and I will never tell---.

 

[mingle]

View attachment 286000

J10b with domestic Taihang engine had entered into service, why Pakistan choose to ignore it ? F16 is not some alien tech, if Yankee don't wanna sell, let it be.

DSI/canards configuration/AESA/ domestic engine with 14 tons thrust, F16 has no advantage at all when it face J10b no matter BVR or WVR.if I was Yankee, I will laugh in the night in the bed when Pakistan budget so much for F16.

I think only reason for Pak to buy F16 is we know this plane trained crew just adding the numbers that's it .otherwise Pak has lot of options now can buy J10 or Russian plane or simply Add more Jf17 .
The money and energy India spending over 8 F16s in states they can fix theior toilet issue .

 

[Viper0011.]

Hi,.

The intentional attack on Salala never got an apology---.

The DO MORE issue----that should have been blamed on the cowardice of TOMMY FRANKS --- JOHN ABIZAID---two cowards who could not do their jobs---did not have the ballz to stand up to Rummy.

Please stop BSing about that ONE PHONE CALL----that was the best decision for pakistan.

It is the pakistani public who screwed up and had no clue when to do what---. What made the General agree---you will never know and I will never tell---.

Hey, look who changed the entire course today!!!! I've seen others getting upset with you because of either forgetfulness, or entirely making U turns on your positions. Here is a prime example of it (your post above):

1) Not Doing More (meaning playing just one side and doing the full cleanup of terrorists), was an issue that has resulted in 50,000 innocent civilians and soldier's deaths. Had the do more been taken a little bit more seriously, many thousands out of the 50,000 would be alive today. Should I write more details about the "strategic depth"????

2) On Salala, there are plenty of videos on youtube showing that the US apologized to Pakistan as a good will gesture. Hillary did that personally and said it on the media.

3) And on the ballz......oh both those guys had plenty of balls. Balls big enough to order jamming of an entire country's AD systems (ALL sectors) as needed. Balls enough to fly directly about 80 km's to Islamabad and kill OBL and announce EKIA !! Enough said.
Just curious, ever seen an entire command center's ALL sector AD radar displays frozen at a point in time for about 4 hours???? Its not a pretty picture I would imagine.

4) On that one phone call.....I can show you MANY of your posts where you, yourself are talking about how Mushy gave up everything and could never negotiate jack shiit for the people. Not to mention the hundreds of millions of corruption that he did and also allowed his buddies to do. The NLC corruption that came out a year ago, had the SAME hands from Mushy's time who were involved in NATO supplies and associated transportation. You can guess the names and level and they had NOTHING to do with the civilians!! .

By the way, I know VERY well what the general agreed to, it was that phone call. How is that civilians "fault" when the call wen to the general asking (really ORDERING) for cooperation.....???? Wait, there had to be a Ghost civilian haunting Mushy that is "somehow" getting the blame for this massive fukkup like its been for decades. Should I start reminding you of the history? Distributing automatic machine guns into the hands of students going to college by infamous General Zia??

Btw, why the change in heart all of a sudden on the entire stance of years on this phone call MK? Getting old? Not feeling well, under the weather? All these things justify these "sudden changes in moods and opinions" and I can understand these reasons as we are all humans . I hope you feel better so you can go back to your stance of years!!

 

[MastanKhan]

Hey, look who changed the entire course today!!!! I've seen others getting upset with you because of either forgetfulness, or entirely making U turns on your positions. Here is a prime example of it (your post above):

1) Not Doing More (meaning playing just one side and doing the full cleanup of terrorists), was an issue that has resulted in 50,000 innocent civilians and soldier's deaths. Had the do more been taken a little bit more seriously, many thousands out of the 50,000 would be alive today. Should I write more details about the "strategic depth"????

2) On Salala, there are plenty of videos on youtube showing that the US apologized to Pakistan as a good will gesture. Hillary did that personally and said it on the media.

3) And on the ballz......oh both those guys had plenty of balls. Balls big enough to order jamming of an entire country's AD systems (ALL sectors) as needed. Balls enough to fly directly about 80 km's to Islamabad and kill OBL and announce EKIA !! Enough said.
Just curious, ever seen an entire command center's ALL sector AD radar displays frozen at a point in time for about 4 hours???? Its not a pretty picture I would imagine.

4) On that one phone call.....I can show you MANY of your posts where you, yourself are talking about how Mushy gave up everything and could never negotiate jack shiit for the people. Not to mention the hundreds of millions of corruption that he did and also allowed his buddies to do. The NLC corruption that came out a year ago, had the SAME hands from Mushy's time who were involved in NATO supplies and associated transportation. You can guess the names and level and they had NOTHING to do with the civilians!! .

By the way, I know VERY well what the general agreed to, it was that phone call. How is that civilians "fault" when the call wen to the general asking (really ORDERING) for cooperation.....???? Wait, there had to be a Ghost civilian haunting Mushy that is "somehow" getting the blame for this massive fukkup like its been for decades. Should I start reminding you of the history? Distributing automatic machine guns into the hands of students going to college by infamous General Zia??

Btw, why the change in heart all of a sudden on the entire stance of years on this phone call MK? Getting old? Not feeling well, under the weather? All these things justify these "sudden changes in moods and opinions" and I can understand these reasons as we are all humans . I hope you feel better so you can go back to your stance of years!!

Hi,

I would agree in all my posts that Mushy did not make the right deal---but I have never stated that he did the wrong thing on " one phone call ".

Show me a single post where I stated that was not the right decision----. I have always stood by my comments that agreeing on " one phone call " was the right deal----but not the financial part

What idiot would risk the integrity of their nation when facing a monster like the U S military---the unpredictability of which is not known---. For 10 years from the U S president to any other spokeperson---Osama Bin Laden is a nobdoy---we don't care what he does---he is not important anymore---we are not pursuing him---to suddenly changing the tune.

 

[Viper0011.]

Hi,

I would agree in all my posts that Mushy did not make the right deal---but I have never stated that he did the wrong thing on " one phone call ".

Show me a single post where I stated that was not the right decision----. I have always stood by my comments that agreeing on " one phone call " was the right deal----but not the financial part

What idiot would risk the integrity of their nation when facing a monster like the U S military---the unpredictability of which is not known---. For 10 years from the U S president to any other spokeperson---Osama Bin Laden is a nobdoy---we don't care what he does---he is not important anymore---we are not pursuing him---to suddenly changing the tune.

I agre with your post entirely. Which is why I was surprised to see when you said I was bullshitting about the one call thing. But essentially I was saying the same thing you were saying all along. In that situation, outside of Russia and China (clearly the enemies), no one else would say no and deal with the most powerful military on the planet. That's a given.

But, where Mushy failed, was where the Civilians coming through votes excel, saying yes just like Mushy, BUT, asking for time to build a case to present to the public for such open support AND negotiating what the "people" would like to see happening and would be happy with (growth of a country's economy, or certain trade preferences, or debt pay offs). That Mushy didn't know how to do and THAT alone is the mother of ALL problem for issues inside Pakistan from a growth and economic standpoint, this was the greatest opportunity before the CPEC.

And you are also right, OBL was a low life terrorists, no one cared!! He became "important to kill" after attacking the US. In which case, the US wanted to capture him like we have all other terrorists. You should ask some mothers in Pakistan, who lost their little children to fukking terrorists who were OBL's followers, and some might've actually worked with him too.

Those mothers will tell you how important these low life, crazy bast*ards have become, and how bad these mothers would like to see these barbaric creatures killed and dispatched to hell. There murderers have no mercy and they don't care about any religion or race or anything. They just kill in cold blood and the world has no place for these scums!!

 

[Quwa]

I urge some members to watch the American remake of "House of Cards", especially the first season. There is a crucial difference between legislation such as the Pressler Amendment and members of Congress being 'difficult.' The stall was a case of the latter, not the former. At the end of the day if the White House and Pentagon see it in their interest to sell F-16s to Pakistan, then Pakistan will get the F-16s. I'd say even money is a non-factor since all the U.S would need to do in order to get Pakistan to finance it is to clip some of the debt owned to the IMF (like the 2002 the debt forgiveness granted by then President George W. Bush). I wouldn't be surprised if those specific Congress members, especially the Democrats, receive a household visit by the party whip. @Viper0011.

As for the recurring question of why the PAF keeps looking at F-16; folks, you're not going to find a better medium weight fighter, period. Even if the widely dreamed acquisition of the Su-35 somehow touches reality, do realize that the Flanker is a heavy long-range fighter you'd use to invade someone, not a flexible tactical asset with a high serviceability rate. In other words, the PAF could use the Su-35 to mount deep penetration strike missions, but it'd be the F-16 that will be there to scramble or provide top cover to the JF-17s.

The only viable alternative is the J-10B/C, but even then, it would be in lieu of additional F-16s, and it'd be a small off-the-shelf (36-40) purchase to bring the medium weight fleet to ~110.

 

[Viper0011.]

I urge some members to watch the American remake of "House of Cards", especially the first season.

I wouldn't be surprised if those specific Congress members, especially the Democrats, receive a household visit by the party whip. @Viper0011.

I've watched the house of cards..... and to the bold part, when the mood in the congress is against something, it doesn't get passed!!

 

[MastanKhan]

I urge some members to watch the American remake of "House of Cards", especially the first season. There is a crucial difference between legislation such as the Pressler Amendment and members of Congress being 'difficult.' The stall was a case of the latter, not the former. At the end of the day if the White House and Pentagon see it in their interest to sell F-16s to Pakistan, then Pakistan will get the F-16s. I'd say even money is a non-factor since all the U.S would need to do in order to get Pakistan to finance it is to clip some of the debt owned to the IMF (like the 2002 the debt forgiveness granted by then President George W. Bush). I wouldn't be surprised if those specific Congress members, especially the Democrats, receive a household visit by the party whip. @Viper0011.

As for the recurring question of why the PAF keeps looking at F-16; folks, you're not going to find a better medium weight fighter, period. Even if the widely dreamed acquisition of the Su-35 somehow touches reality, do realize that the Flanker is a heavy long-range fighter you'd use to invade someone, not a flexible tactical asset with a high serviceability rate. In other words, the PAF could use the Su-35 to mount deep penetration strike missions, but it'd be the F-16 that will be there to scramble or provide top cover to the JF-17s.

The only viable alternative is the J-10B/C, but even then, it would be in lieu of additional F-16s, and it'd be a small off-the-shelf (36-40) purchase to bring the medium weight fleet to ~110.

Hi,

The thing is that they have been flying it for 30 + years by now----. A different kind of aircraft---they would have to integrate again----.

The F16 flows thru their veins---the Jf17 is following right behind---the new aircraft---start all over.

 

[batmannow]

I agre with your post entirely. Which is why I was surprised to see when you said I was bullshitting about the one call thing. But essentially I was saying the same thing you were saying all along. In that situation, outside of Russia and China (clearly the enemies), no one else would say no and deal with the most powerful military on the planet. That's a given.

But, where Mushy failed, was where the Civilians coming through votes excel, saying yes just like Mushy, BUT, asking for time to build a case to present to the public for such open support AND negotiating what the "people" would like to see happening and would be happy with (growth of a country's economy, or certain trade preferences, or debt pay offs). That Mushy didn't know how to do and THAT alone is the mother of ALL problem for issues inside Pakistan from a growth and economic standpoint, this was the greatest opportunity before the CPEC.

And you are also right, OBL was a low life terrorists, no one cared!! He became "important to kill" after attacking the US. In which case, the US wanted to capture him like we have all other terrorists. You should ask some mothers in Pakistan, who lost their little children to fukking terrorists who were OBL's followers, and some might've actually worked with him too.

Those mothers will tell you how important these low life, crazy bast*ards have become, and how bad these mothers would like to see these barbaric creatures killed and dispatched to hell. There murderers have no mercy and they don't care about any religion or race or anything. They just kill in cold blood and the world has no place for these scums!!

Stupid politicians building Pakistan's case , for USA ?
that's I call the super fooling joke , we Pakistanis keep living into ?
Where Pakistan was under musharaf , still 50 times better defence wise , economily .
He made some strategic decesions , which later came to hunt him ?
& th deadliest was to keep OBL in his custody , while G.W BUSH doing whatever musharaf wanted too?
But in that procces musharaf failed to realize that , america not only been run by its president ?
He should have took OBL out , killed him in front of whole world , instead of keeping that SOB , as his security asset ?
Which was planned later , & his most trusted man kiyani gave up for just a extention & zardari went in rampage of his choices ?
Political Civilian rule is just a croupt joke kept played by stupid politicians who sell Pakistan , whatever way they can ?
So please for god sake , don't tell us their super deeds what they done to our country ?
Hillray sorry came , after thousands of calls & letters thrown to her by our politicians begging her diplomaticly to save their croupt political govt ?
Its not called apology , its more a diplomatic move to push , WOT in Afghanistan ?

Hi,

The thing is that they have been flying it for 30 + years by now----. A different kind of aircraft---they would have to integrate again----.

The F16 flows thru their veins---the Jf17 is following right behind---the new aircraft---start all over.

With that mind set , I'm sure they will be flying F-16 block 99 in 2050 & it will make them as living joke ?

 

[CHI RULES]

SU 35 is the best bet can destroy out perform even blk 70 of F 16

Dear Sir facts show that even obsolete Us Tech in the past has proved to be challenging ag relatively newer techs of any other country including Ruskies. PAF is still getting F16s or trying to get upgraded versions due to their reliability.
Arab/Israel war is clear example of the superiority of US tech, even now despite capable Rusky SAMS installed in Syria, IAF has freely attacked targets within deep Syrian territory.

Whatever is in J10 will find its way into JFT sooner or later. Problem with PAF is with :
A). Sensors and software where J10B lags behind inspite of the huge strides it has taken .
B). The infrastructure and setup cost of a newer platform outweigh the benefits.
PAFs thrust seems to be towards a 5th generation platform along with JFTs and a few F16s. Everything else is a bonus and an icing on the cake. If the 16s do not get approved and J31s are not ready/ inducted, and an urgent need arises due to our helpful neighbours, PAF may well go for a twin engined platform in small number to supplement the deficiency. Otherwise it will be more 16s plus JFT and J31 when it is ready.
My 2paisas worth.
A

Dear Sir, despite superior capabilities J10 version is facing serious tech issues and many accidents have happened in recent past. So one thing is for sure that big AFs may afford such jets but we can't. J11 series is much better option but perhaps restricted to be exported.

 

[batmannow]

Dear Sir facts show that even obsolete Us Tech in the past has proved to be challenging ag relatively newer techs of any other country including Ruskies. PAF is still getting F16s or trying to get upgraded versions due to their reliability.
Arab/Israel war is clear example of the superiority of US tech, even now despite capable Rusky SAMS installed in Syria, IAF has freely attacked targets within deep Syrian territory.


Dear Sir, despite superior capabilities J10 version is facing serious tech issues and many accidents have happened in recent past. So one thing is for sure that big AFs may afford such jets but we can't. J11 series is much better option but perhaps restricted to be exported.

Arab israelli war ????
Are you serious about it , with all the dam tech in their pockets , all the military support from US & UK they are still too tiny to even think of ? Why ?
Sorry to disagree with your one sided POV that Arab Israeli air war can be push as American or western technological air force milestone ?
No way ,, even if we put up Israeli air force in today's war scene then with out US or western support its just next to nothing against combine Arabian air force ?
Just take out the western support Israel gets , then you can't find that tiny thing called israel on the map of planet
Earth ?
Russia is still there , facing all odds of all the combine so called western allied military high tech , with its own technology is the bench mark instead we should think off ?
F -16s are made as the symbol of US + WESTERN happiness towards Pakistan , & if that's not on the table of our stupid , croupt , & some how damocrazy lovin , berucrats then that means all of their dam families living & dinning in the west are on the edge ?

That's the only reason ,, why we are keep getting F-16s decads after decades ?
Our croupt politicians & our croupt berucrats made it the gold mine , which they keep living on & on ?
F- 16s were good in their times , but that era has been ended a long way back ?
& the worst reason Pakistanis been made fool , is having a new platform & its integration in to PAF ?
They often , not tell the truth that when first we brought F- 16s ,, the required training was too long then , what our pilots cutted it short , with their abilities ?
Any new platform can be adjusted at any time of peace ,, its not a dam rocket science ?