Pakistan in talks with US to procure latest F-16 jets: Air chief

[Maarkhoor]

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan continues to talk to the US about purchasing a new tranche of F-16 fighters, but analysts here warn that it is unclear if or when such a deal could close.

Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman, head of the Pakistani Air Force, was quoted in local media here Monday saying Pakistan was "in talks with US defense officials to get some [of the] latest F-16s but the deal may take some time." He spoke at an event to mark Pakistan Aeronautical Complex having manufactured its target of 16 JF-17 Block II for 2015.
That follows reports from mid-October that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif would use a visit to Washington to push for the sale of eight F-16s for his military.

Pakistan currently operates a number of F-16 variants, so the addition of eight more jets is unlikely to have much impact on the local power balance between Pakistan and India.

However, the US Congress has historically been skeptical of arms sales to Pakistan, in no small part due to Indian lobbying, and any discussion of defense deals naturally must take this into account.

But circumstances could now be in Pakistan's favor. In addition to the Washington's speculated desire to maintain influence in Pakistan, there is a need to keep the F-16 production line open, which in the absence of domestic US orders can only be achieved through exports.

Despite the usual obstacles in the path of a deal, Brian Cloughley, an author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, says there is now a stronger chance that a deal could be struck.

"The India lobby in Congress is quite powerful and might help to block such sales to Pakistan, but the defense production lobby is much more influential,” Cloughley said. "On that basis, it's likely such a sale would get through."

Author and analyst Kaiser Tufail, who flew F-16s among other aircraft during his Air Force career, said that if negotiations really are serious he does not "see any reason why the US would be secretive about it."

He also questioned whether the US would use the possibility of more F-16s to maintain political ties with Pakistan at a time when China is strengthening its ties with the Asian nation.

"Under the ongoing Pak-China strategic cooperation, there must be great urgency in US quarters to retain influence in Pakistan. Any rumored offer of military hardware should be seen in that light," he said.

Lockheed Martin is represented in Pakistan by Kestrel, which also represents a number of other US firms such as Sikorsky, Gulf Stream, Hawker Beechcraft and L3 Communications. However, no comment was forthcoming from the firm about details such as the potential timeframe for a deal.

"There is no doubt that the F-16C-52 is the world's best single-engine fighter. Since we already operate a squadron of this type, its additional induction would be smooth," Tufail said.

David McKeeby, a spokesman for the State Department’s Bureau of Political-Military Affairs, declined to comment on a proposed sale until it has been formally notified to Congress.

However, McKeeby noted that, “When provided in the past, Pakistan has used US-funded equipment and US-provided technology to significant effect in their counter-terrorism efforts. Pakistan's F-16 is one key example of how US support has improved Pakistan's precision strike capability and capacity to combat terrorist elements in North Waziristan.”

Those operations, he noted, are “in the national interests of both Pakistan and the United States.”

Modernization Efforts

More F-16s would certainly speed up Pakistan's modernization efforts and Aman also stated the intention to replace the older generation of jets, such as the Mirage III/5 aircraft, by 2020.
First in line for replacement has been the Chengdu F-7P, of which small numbers are still operational. According to PAF officials the more advanced double-delta winged F-7PG is likely to remain as a point defense interceptor for the time being.

Even if the F-16 sale does not materialize, however, the JF-17 program is on course, and a spokesman for the Air Force said production would be increased to meet export orders. Though no official confirmation has yet been forthcoming, Myanmar is considered by analysts to have been the first export customer.

Four Pakistani Air Force squadrons are now equipped with the JF-17 and the number will grow as China and Pakistan signed a deal in April for the delivery of 50 aircraft in the coming three years.

Some parts of the JF-17, such as the rear fuselage, are still manufactured in China by Chengdu.

Even without further F-16s, Tufail believes the JF-17 can easily replace the remaining F-7P and Mirage III/5 fleets in the desired timeframe.

"We should have no problem as it is a well-planned and a phased program. The JF-17 production capacity of one squadron (16 aircraft) per year fits in well with the plans to complete the replacement by 2020."
Will Pakistan Land a Deal With US for New F-16s?

 

[Maarkhoor]

@Zarvan @Windjammer

 

[Rank]

Pakistan should try something else like J31... future belongs to twin engine powerful 5th Gen fighters.. F16s is beast but again here is US again.... not comfortable with Amreekans!

 

[Viper0011.]

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan continues to talk to the US about purchasing a new tranche of F-16 fighters, but analysts here warn that it is unclear if or when such a deal could close.

However, the US Congress has historically been skeptical of arms sales to Pakistan, in no small part due to Indian lobbying, and any discussion of defense deals naturally must take this into account.
Will Pakistan Land a Deal With US for New F-16s?

These are coming guys. Just hang tight. If Pakistan works with India and helps them investigate and put in prison the supporters of terrorists, these will be released for sure. There are talks of a second order and some used ones too. So new block 60 will be around 8-18 more (two orders). Plus 20-40 used ones, if they can locate the air-frames with lower flying miles (Main PAF requirement).

Pakistan should try something else like J31... future belongs to twin engine powerful 5th Gen fighters.. F16s is beast but again here is US again.... not comfortable with Amreekans!

Well, the SAME Americans have helped you defend your country in three wars by the equipment they provided you. So that tells you how reliable these "Americans" are when it comes to selling weapons . So why the negativity??

And yes, J-31 along with J-11C/D or J/10C in numbers should be procured too. I'd even say turn the JFT block III or IV program in utilizing the J/10C plane and pay TOT for it. That way, you'll have a Rafale class fighter that you could build in house starting from JFT block IV (a new fighter all together).

 

[The Eagle]

These are coming guys. Just hang tight. If Pakistan works with India and helps them investigate and put in prison the supporters of terrorists, these will be released for sure. There are talks of a second order and some used ones too. So new block 60 will be around 8-18 more (two orders). Plus 20-40 used ones, if they can locate the air-frames with lower flying miles (Main PAF requirement).



Well, the SAME Americans have helped you defend your country in three wars by the equipment they provided you. So that tells you how reliable these "Americans" are when it comes to selling weapons . So why the negativity??

And yes, J-31 along with J-11C/D or J/10C in numbers should be procured too. I'd even say turn the JFT block III or IV program in utilizing the J/10C plane and pay TOT for it. That way, you'll have a Rafale class fighter that you could build in house starting from JFT block IV (a new fighter all together).

For the first part of your post Mate. I must say that if US is about to seal the deal as per wish & whim of India then it is not bad to say that we must directly deal with India. Pakistan has been fighting against terrorism and succeeded good enough and US herself acknowledged recently however, if India need some help then we are already doing the needful and always in favor of peaceful region.

Also, the talks were already in progress before resent happening in India but one thing for sure i can understand that the recent Pathankot False Flag Attacks are part of the same Indian lobby game for stop of anything and they will never succeed.

But tell you what, being a Pakistani i assure you if this deal works like this as you stated above and even if these are immortal birds, we will burn the deal with our own hands though diplomacy and bowing before a liar are two different things and dignity is far most superior so i am sure US is not advocating for India hence Pakistan has its own path of relations with US and we are very much aligned towards better progress than past. Furthermore, ACM has already quoted that Pakistan is searching East and West both.

Rest about the power balance thing, that's whole lot of a story.

I hope for working on the JFT to grow it to further more blocks as you have stated above so my wishes are the same and there need to be some kind of progress as till now JFT has proven as per expectations and fulfilling the need in its current class so could be good to invest in this for furthermore.

Pakistan Zindabad

 

[Viper0011.]

For the first part of your post Mate. I must say that if US is about to seal the deal as per wish & whim of India then it is not bad to say that we must directly deal with India. Pakistan has been fighting against terrorism and succeeded good enough and US herself acknowledged recently however, if India need some help then we are already doing the needful and always in favor of peaceful region.

Also, the talks were already in progress before resent happening in India but one thing for sure i can understand that the recent Pathankot False Flag Attacks are part of the same Indian lobby game for stop of anything and they will never succeed.

You missed the entire point.....the point isn't how the US is working per India's instructions or preferring one over the other. The point is, to fulfill the anti-terrorism related commitments NS made and RS followed up on.

The next point is, if both India and Pakistan work together to find out who did the recent attacks, it'll reduce the Indian lobby's efforts, both from the Indian side and from within the US. As a joint investigation and support from Pakistan will clearly be seen as a very positive development for a peaceful future.


Once two nations start to talk and work together, the wars become a thing of the past. So no one care's who has which weapons as they won't be used against each other. Plus you ALWAYS want a neural, positive perception of your country in front of other readers and countries. Something that the Indians have mastered and you guys from Pakistan jump up and down in emotions instead.

 

[batmannow]

You missed the entire point.....the point isn't how the US is working per India's instructions or preferring one over the other. The point is, to fulfill the anti-terrorism related commitments NS made and RS followed up on.

The next point is, if both India and Pakistan work together to find out who did the recent attacks, it'll reduce the Indian lobby's efforts, both from the Indian side and from within the US. As a joint investigation and support from Pakistan will clearly be seen as a very positive development for a peaceful future.


Once two nations start to talk and work together, the wars become a thing of the past. So no one care's who has which weapons as they won't be used against each other. Plus you ALWAYS want a neural, positive perception of your country in front of other readers and countries. Something that the Indians have mastered and you guys from Pakistan jump up and down in emotions instead.

We need to kill the terrorism for our own survival?
but not to get dictated by any one because they will do this & that to us ?
No way !
Yes if , any terrorists are doing bad in India & we knew them , & they are in our reach , we should hunt them down , & its must thing for us .
But if some one thinks , we should do it because we will get , decade old show pieces which were not able to fly in kargill war , then we should slap those faces & tell them to go back to their dam black water HQs ?

 

[The Eagle]

You missed the entire point.....the point isn't how the US is working per India's instructions or preferring one over the other. The point is, to fulfill the anti-terrorism related commitments NS made and RS followed up on.

The next point is, if both India and Pakistan work together to find out who did the recent attacks, it'll reduce the Indian lobby's efforts, both from the Indian side and from within the US. As a joint investigation and support from Pakistan will clearly be seen as a very positive development for a peaceful future.


Once two nations start to talk and work together, the wars become a thing of the past. So no one care's who has which weapons as they won't be used against each other. Plus you ALWAYS want a neural, positive perception of your country in front of other readers and countries. Something that the Indians have mastered and you guys from Pakistan jump up and down in emotions instead.

I wouldn't be offensive here so tell you what, the Do More thing wouldn't work like this. The dictation era is getting old so the rules of business are changed this time and tactics reshaping. Despite mistakes and mishandling in past, drowned by emotions we are awaking my friend. India is no good for us at all if you want us to act fake human in front of others to draw a picture based on lies. We seems what we are exactly and if as you suggested the Indian's posture which is working with you and world then i must say better to be rebel than pleasing the morons.

Once the nation is dead with emotions then trust no one would remember us alone but just a little part of league yet we have our own identity. For the talks, yes we agreed and not just agreed always invited everyone to the table. Don't you see our efforts for Taliban talks in Afghan peace process and praised by your own country.

I wouldn't go any more off topic and my apologies to the readers here as well. Additions are always good specially with F-16s category so I hope for more birds in hand as much as we need in full capacity as this craft has proven on many grounds and also PAF experienced it well enough.

Pakistan Zindabad

 

[Viper0011.]

I wouldn't be offensive here so tell you what, the Do More thing wouldn't work like this. The dictation era is getting old so the rules of business are changed this time and tactics reshaping. Despite mistakes and mishandling in past, drowned by emotions we are awaking my friend. India is no good for us at all if you want us to act fake human in front of others to draw a picture based on lies. We seems what we are exactly and if as you suggested the Indian's posture which is working with you and world then i must say better to be rebel than pleasing the morons.

Once the nation is dead with emotions then trust no one would remember us alone but just a little part of league yet we have our own identity. For the talks, yes we agreed and not just agreed always invited everyone to the table. Don't you see our efforts for Taliban talks in Afghan peace process and praised by your own country.

I wouldn't go any more off topic and my apologies to the readers here as well. Additions are always good specially with F-16s category so I hope for more birds in hand as much as we need in full capacity as this craft has proven on many grounds and also PAF experienced it well enough.

I don't know what's in your head to keep going on and on. I SIMPLY stated, the need to act cool, calm and controlled when you write or interact with the international community. You can present your point much nicely and can create a much nicer picture of Pakistan in front of others. Many of you make jingoistic and silly statements, which don't help at all.

The "Do More", or anything else, was America's fault? Or a lousy dictator and a lousy general who couldn't manage to negotiate with the Americans properly? Mind you, in his time, there was just a phone call made. In Zardari's time (even with him being a mother of corruption), there was an ACTUAL attack on Salala check post. Guess what? the actual attack got an apology and an agreement out of it. But a mere phone call got the general to agree to everything without questioning or asking fro economic benefits or anything else in return!!!! So blame the people who are handling things correctly because they don't know how to negotiate!! Don't blame others. Others will treat you based on your mental set you are showing to the world!!

I gave you an example of Zardari vs. Musy. Now remember the sad events of California just over a month ago. Remember Pathankot also, both of these have Pakistan's name in these. But guess what? Unlike the PAST (Mushy or other dictator's times), both the US and the Indian governments have played it very well and haven't blamed Pakistan. Why? Because you have another democratic PM in the country, who has made the case very well in-front of the Indians and the Americans that Pakistan will work with them on treating the cancer of terrorism, but putting the blame on the country doesn't help as it is fighting this cancer internally and is doing all it can.

The result? From the US to India to Sri Lanka to Russia, for the first time in Pakistan's ENTIRE life of about 70 years, she is enjoying great diplomatic relationships built on mutual respect. So others will treat you based on what you show them about you. In the example here, I ask you to write things positively, without making your country look bad, or a nation of fools. Maturity and calmness is the key to creating a better image of your country even in tough times, in front of the entire globe. In Pakistan, you guys think a leader is the aggressive one who is always yelling, screaming, looking tough, or asking for revolution or something like that. In reality, the REAL leaders, who change their nation, are calm, steady, and don't have aggressive personalities. In the past three decades, Bill Clinton started the tech revolution, see how nice and without aggression he is. Mr. Singh and Mr. Rao in India, pioneered the Indian growth. Check out their personalities also. Sri Lanka, Nigeria, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brazil, the Chinese, ALL are growing economically much stronger than Pakistan, check out their leaders, low key, and no aggression and democratic in nature they are. This isn't Hitler's time, this is 2015!

You should open up a new thread on this subject,but let's take the discussion back to the topics of this thread. Its not "winning about America", its the F-16's....

 

[The Eagle]

I don't know what's in your head to keep going on and on. I SIMPLY stated, the need to act cool, calm and controlled when you write or interact with the international community. You can present your point much nicely and can create a much nicer picture of Pakistan in front of others. Many of you make jingoistic and silly statements, which don't help at all.

The "Do More", or anything else, was America's fault? Or a lousy dictator and a lousy general who couldn't manage to negotiate with the Americans properly? Mind you, in his time, there was just a phone call made. In Zardari's time (even with him being a mother of corruption), there was an ACTUAL attack on Salala check post. Guess what? the actual attack got an apology and an agreement out of it. But a mere phone call got the general to agree to everything without questioning or asking fro economic benefits or anything else in return!!!! So blame the people who are handling things correctly because they don't know how to negotiate!! Don't blame others. Others will treat you based on your mental set you are showing to the world!!

I gave you an example of Zardari vs. Musy. Now remember the sad events of California just over a month ago. Remember Pathankot also, both of these have Pakistan's name in these. But guess what? Unlike the PAST (Mushy or other dictator's times), both the US and the Indian governments have played it very well and haven't blamed Pakistan. Why? Because you have another democratic PM in the country, who has made the case very well in-front of the Indians and the Americans that Pakistan will work with them on treating the cancer of terrorism, but putting the blame on the country doesn't help as it is fighting this cancer internally and is doing all it can.

The result? From the US to India to Sri Lanka to Russia, for the first time in Pakistan's ENTIRE life of about 70 years, she is enjoying great diplomatic relationships built on mutual respect. So others will treat you based on what you show them about you. In the example here, I ask you to write things positively, without making your country look bad, or a nation of fools. Maturity and calmness is the key to creating a better image of your country even in tough times, in front of the entire globe. In Pakistan, you guys think a leader is the aggressive one who is always yelling, screaming, looking tough, or asking for revolution or something like that. In reality, the REAL leaders, who change their nation, are calm, steady, and don't have aggressive personalities. In the past three decades, Bill Clinton started the tech revolution, see how nice and without aggression he is. Mr. Singh and Mr. Rao in India, pioneered the Indian growth. Check out their personalities also. Sri Lanka, Nigeria, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brazil, the Chinese, ALL are growing economically much stronger than Pakistan, check out their leaders, low key, and no aggression and democratic in nature they are. This isn't Hitler's time, this is 2015!

You should open up a new thread on this subject,but let's take the discussion back to the topics of this thread. Its not "winning about America", its the F-16's....

Thanks for your time and such paragraph. You just came with a sentence (Pakistan help india ......... release for sure) which indicates kinda must condition and debate started though i have never minded the 16s coming and we know how this bird has been useful for us. In short as i said past was indeed not fruitful for us and we know much about our country and those morons from the past being office bearers affected the growth and as we are much aligned this time so demands like this doesn't suits to be the subject of talks however, we are good with US while dealing these sorts of things and also we are happy to see things working in dignity manners for both of us.

The talks started and definitely would have clauses in there but all could be worked and start of such talks, is indeed a sign that how calm we are dealing. But if there is an Indian acknowledgement needed so i mentioned my observation as that should not be counted as a must but to the some extent if evident enough. Regards.

 

[araz]

You missed the entire point.....the point isn't how the US is working per India's instructions or preferring one over the other. The point is, to fulfill the anti-terrorism related commitments NS made and RS followed up on.

The next point is, if both India and Pakistan work together to find out who did the recent attacks, it'll reduce the Indian lobby's efforts, both from the Indian side and from within the US. As a joint investigation and support from Pakistan will clearly be seen as a very positive development for a peaceful future.


Once two nations start to talk and work together, the wars become a thing of the past. So no one care's who has which weapons as they won't be used against each other. Plus you ALWAYS want a neural, positive perception of your country in front of other readers and countries. Something that the Indians have mastered and you guys from Pakistan jump up and down in emotions instead.

You need to understand the logic behind their opposition. They oppose Pak acquisitions from US because it means more effort on their part to acquire more hardware to defend themselves. Irrespective if we gave them a few heads on a platter they will continue to malign us for something else and oppose US arms sales to Pakistan. US needs to decide how much it needs Pakistan in the coming days and how an arms deal with Pakistan would ensure jobs for their people. Rest is a drama that will go on.
A

 

[帅的一匹]

J10b with domestic Taihang engine had entered into service, why Pakistan choose to ignore it ? F16 is not some alien tech, if Yankee don't wanna sell, let it be.

DSI/canards configuration/AESA/ domestic engine with 14 tons thrust, F16 has no advantage at all when it face J10b no matter BVR or WVR.if I was Yankee, I will laugh in the night in the bed when Pakistan budget so much for F16.

 

[Viper0011.]

Thanks for your time and such paragraph. You just came with a sentence (Pakistan help india ......... release for sure) which indicates kinda must condition and debate started though i have never minded the 16s coming and we know how this bird has been useful for us..

The US has said yesterday (the White house sec) that Pakistan will decide on when to investigate the incident. There is no "must" condition. But there is total commitment involved here. Modi was pushed by the US to go to Pakistan. This was almost "enforced" by the US on India, based on NS and RS's trip.

Many of you guys on here think the Pakistani Army is a force of supermen, but that simply isn't true. The Generals visiting Islamabad and the PM paint a very different picture. Which is, we must want peace with India as the Pak Army cant fight India the way it did in the 65's. That's the reality. Gen RS has given NS full commitment in growing the country and in establishing PR across the globe (which has been a very successful by NS), so these are the REAL realities that exist.

Now back to the US, due to these realities and full understanding of on the ground events, the US used her influence and pushed Modi. Now think about it, the US did it for Pakistan's sake. So its natural to expect the other side will hold their side of the bargain too. There is a reason why the Military and the Civil leadership continue to issue statements that they'll work with India in identifying where the issues are, and if the right amounts of proofs are provided, they will act on it.

There is no "must do", but the US has stick its neck out for peace to be established between the two countries. The F-16 issue is a separate issue but you can bet that Indian lobby will bring it out. So at some point, with the elections coming closer, these two issues will be tied together. Knowing NS's negotiation style a little bit from his American fans from the US administration, I am sure he'll find a way. But that way will be ensuring American involvement to establish peace won't go to waste.

If I did something nice to help you and your enemy, and you gave me a commitment, I'd expect you to follow through as I put my neck out there for you. If you don't follow through, you obviously don't care, and have wasted my reputation also. Its really as simple as that. At the end, if these two issues (the sad events and the F-16's) can be managed separately, obviously, that's what everyone wants. But all parties have to work towards their agreed upon commitments for it to happen. If I was to guess, the F-16's for Pakistan will more than likely be approved. I can't see a NO to 8 or 18 F-16's, and even some used ones too.

 

[sohail.ishaque]

These are coming guys. Just hang tight. If Pakistan works with India and helps them investigate and put in prison the supporters of terrorists, these will be released for sure. There are talks of a second order and some used ones too. So new block 60 will be around 8-18 more (two orders). Plus 20-40 used ones, if they can locate the air-frames with lower flying miles (Main PAF requirement).



Well, the SAME Americans have helped you defend your country in three wars by the equipment they provided you. So that tells you how reliable these "Americans" are when it comes to selling weapons . So why the negativity??

What about the false flag operations ??? what about the terrorists of India, and what about the RAW funded terrorism in Pakistan and TTP(being operated by RAW) and what about the terrorism that they did in 1971(already boosting about it in Media)... what about Balochistan, they already are funding terrorism in our porvince, and Karachi.. ?????? open ur eyes before making such suggestions.. The term terrorism is being manipulated by USA/ISRAEL/INDIA to their advantage... i have 1 suggestion for you,. STOP SPREADING THE BULLSHIT.. Thanks.

 

[帅的一匹]

USA will sell F16 to Pakistan no matter how India protest cause India is taken for granted by USA, as India can produce nothing on their own.