Pakistan has to accept India as big brother

[lamayuru]

in response to my post about the limits of Indian lobby's influence in Washington.

Ah! Granted. But let me tell you this is still something developing. We have not heard the last from US policy makers yet. Dont also discount the immensely powerful nuclear energy lobby in the US who are all dollar eyed at the prospect of business with India.

Hillary came here for 5 days remember. Some important stuff got done.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

@AM:

OK. I think I was only trying to be fair. But you are going one up. If India and Pakistan were to sit at the same table, how would you rather define the partnership?
In all fairness:
GDPs
or
purchasing power in INR
or
Pakistan's favourite
Any economic ratio per capita

I would not agree with any of that. How much good will does Pakistan command in the world? How many extra checks do your nationals have to go through to get into foreign airports. What is your soft power? What country do you consider your equal? There is either US/China who are the boss or Srilanka/Bangladesh who your state agencies use for their strategic purpose.

But which country do you see as your equal? Your progressive leaders have been wanting to emulate Turkey for a while now, but its been 60 yrs!

You are once more reverting into showing that India and Pakistan are not equals economically and militarily - I already gave you that for the sake ofcontinueing this discussion.

How do you define this 'lop sided relationship', specifically, without going into cliches, was my question.

You responded with ' voting rights in a professionally run concern', but as I pointed out, any such 'professionally run concern' would allocate voting rights based on capital invested by the respective nations. Now this is not really a lopsided argument at all, but a fair one.

I assume you agree with me - so what else, how else is this lop sided relationship to go?

 

[khanakhazana]

I think the relationship will sort itself out automatically once India's economy is stronger and India's indigenous defence and nuclear industry is well established.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

@AM:

Nope. It is just a diplomatic stick which India can use, and surprisingly it was Made in Pakistan.

A diplomatic stick? When was the last time any of the nations outside of India said that Pakistan was not cooperating on the Mumbai investigations because it did not send the DG ISI over immediately?

It is a stick used to whip up domestic sentiment and rabble rouse over a non issue, beyond that any Indian diplomat would likely get laughed out of the room trying to paint the reversal of an informal offer to send the DG ISI as some sort of damning indictment of Pakistani perfidy.

 

[Developereo]

Ever heard of Kazakhistan China pipeline? China and India definitely want access to CARs which have energy. What has Pakistan to do in this? Other than competing with Iran for sea access?

So what? Do you think countries trade exclusively through only one route? China's trade with the CARs is independent of its Middle East trade.

This does not affect Pakistan's strategic location in terms of access to the Indian ocean, the Middle East markets and oil. A rail connection via Gwadar is a lot cheaper and quicker than going across all those mountains. Not to mention that Pakistan itself is a 170 million strong market for Chinese exports.

---------- Post added at 01:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 AM ----------

I think the relationship will sort itself out automatically once India's economy is stronger and India's indigenous defence and nuclear industry is well established.

Sigh. Yet another Indian hiding behind two American flags.

Must be something in the water...

 

[Developereo]

Ah! Granted. But let me tell you this is still something developing. We have not heard the last from US policy makers yet. Dont also discount the immensely powerful nuclear energy lobby in the US who are all dollar eyed at the prospect of business with India.

Hillary came here for 5 days remember. Some important stuff got done.

Undoubtedly.

My point was that (foreign) lobbys have limits. Except AIPAC, but they have been at it for over a century (in different reincarnations, even before Israel was formed).

 

[maverick2009]

Regarding the Lop sided Statement.

I think the poster is referring to Which nation between India and Pakistan is in a More Favourable Position.

This Favourable position can extend to more than just GDP Forex or Military power

This lopsided statement can mean any or all of the following.

Who has the greater voice in the world be the Whitehouse or the UN.

who has greater infleuence with mutual friends ie Europe or Japan etc.

Who has more inherent strength to maintain or indeed increase their
stranglehold on Kashmir in the long term.

THE REASON I MENTION kashmir this for some people is the root cause of indo pak animosity


Finally Lopsided means quite simply who is the larger more powerful nation not just now but in the short to meduim term ie next 10 YEARS.

Because who ever is the stronger will be bargining from a position of Strength..

 

[khanakhazana]

Sigh. Yet another Indian hiding behind two American flags.

Must be something in the water...

I am American-Indian. Do you have issues with that?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Regarding the Lop sided Statement.

I think the poster is referring to Which nation between India and Pakistan is in a More Favourable Position.

No - the discussion right now revolves around what exactly the Indo-Pak relationship should look like.

If it is a lop sided relationship, what does that mean?

 

[Developereo]

I am American-Indian. Do you have issues with that?

None whatsoever.
It's just that, perhaps you didn't know, most dual nationals here use one flag to denote ethniticty (country of birth) and the second to denote dual nationality (country of residence).

Not a hard and fast rule, but it gives some indication where people's biases lie.

(I assume you mean Indian-American, because some people use American-Indian to mean Native American.)

 

[maverick2009]

Develepro its a debate it should make no difference.

I m a Brit with a brit passport and proud of it.

 

[khanakhazana]

Exactly. Even though I am sympathetic towards my homeland, I am loyal towards the US of A first and foremost. I have lived here most of my life.

 

[khanakhazana]

I think eventually, Pakistan would have to abandon the goal of achieving near-parity with India in military terms. Perhaps settle for protection from the PLA as a substitute.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I think eventually, Pakistan would have to abandon the goal of achieving near-parity with India in military terms. Perhaps settle for protection from the PLA as a substitute.

China will not enter into a war with another nation for the sake of Pakistan.

Pakistan will continue to maintain a credible minimum conventional deterrent that is capable of denying India a quick military victory (under a few weeks) and capable of inflicting significant damage on India's military and industrial infrastructure, thereby ensuring that military aggression by India will be damaging to India and largely fruitless.

As we go forward, depending upon Pakistan's economic growth, that minimal deterrence can be turned into a more offensive capability.

So I doubt PLA protection will be necessary, though you do need to stop trolling or get another one of your ID"s banned.

 

[Developereo]

Develepro its a debate it should make no difference.

I m a Brit with a brit passport and proud of it.

Exactly. Even though I am sympathetic towards my homeland, I am loyal towards the US of A first and foremost. I have lived here most of my life.

No biggie. We can usually figure out people's biases from the content of their posts anyway.

Most people like to be up-front about their loyalties and, this being a Pakistani forum, it is inevitable that there will be differences of opinion with Indians.

Other things being equal, I would expect an immigrant or first generation Indian-American or Pakistani-American to have a different set of biases than a fifth generation Euro-American.

It's not a question of pride, but honesty. There have been a number of cases where people hid their ethnicity/nationality just to troll.