Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)

[Neo]

A very intersting news. However, please allow me to take it with a pinch of salt. Seeing what is happenning to oil in the world, the availability of another aircraft which allegedly does better than the F11 in combat scenarios and is single engined(J10) why odes PAF want to go for J11. I understand that a J11 mounted with twin WS13 will give commonality to the force and may not be a management nightmare, but we have to understand we are a defensive force and local defence can be adequately mounted with small fighters like F16, Thunder, and J10.
Secondly, you may have heard, PAF has had to transfer K8 assembly out of Kamra to concentrate on Thunder. We are not getting J10 assemvbly line due to lack of resources and manpower, why would we then take on J11 assembly?
Soin short we need to discuss what need there ids for a fighter like J11 in PAF, whether we can afford it, and whether it is a practical buy for PAF. Muradk Saheb, Xman, and other people afiliated with PAF(No disrespect meant to Brother Haider)can we have your views as well.
WaSalam
Araz

Sir,

J-11B is being evaluated for induction beyond 2012 and yes there's a need for long range MRCA as part of PAF's two phase modernisation strategy.

The first phase included replacement of older and obsolete fleet of F-6/F-7/AQ-5 and Mirages with JF-17 and F-16 and strengthening airdefence.

Second phase is about expanding the fleet and her offensive capabilities inwhich FC-20 and J-11B will play greater role than the JF-17, again we're looking into 2012-2014, 4-6 years from now, as possible window to induct these heavy platforms with comonality in avionics and weaponsuit.

The report is true.

 

[SABRE]

I have asked around some of the reliable sources in Pakistan and even talked to JANES ppl (after a long time ... and now my cell credit is Rs. 3 only .. lol). Final word: News is not credible. But to make you ppl happy all I can say is there are 2 more Pakistani sources to go who usually have 90% information on PAF deals and offers.

On my own analysis; even if this news is true I don't see J-11B in PAF before 2012 or 2015 (2015 most likely) and by than we don't know what other options would be on the table. J-10 would easily be available by than, then the J-11B.

And just for the information. In 1990s Ukraine offered Pakistan about 24 (2 sqdns) Su-27s. However, due to some issues the deal was scrapped. 2 Su-27s did arrive in Pakistan for evaluation - even F-16s are said to have combated with them. Results? I have no idea.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

A very good move by the GoP to cut the numbers of F-16s. I just had that thought that our F-16s could be bugged or sensitive AMRAAM technology could be handed over to India. F-16 is indeed a very capable fighter but in case of PAF, too many strings attached! As for F-16 package is concerned.. No AMRAAM and Block 52+ too dangerous for PAK... only MLU for our existing fleet of 34 and that with the involvement of Turkey.

so now we have J-11 with full TOT no strings attached very low price, but with a setback that its a illegal copy. on the other hand we have a capable fighter with better arms package but too many strings attached.
J-11's price is what matters.. if Pakistan can negotiate the price tag $30 million a piece and that its not a illegal copy then i think j-11 is the choice..
This should be the last resort if Pakistan cant secure the F-16 deal.

I am not in favor of J-11/F-11, why not more J-10s if PAF is really that desperate to find an alternative of F-16s..

 

[HAIDER]

Chinese J-11s for Pakistan?

An Indian report is claiming that China is exporting the J-11 to Pakistan. This is news to many, because the J-11 is a very modern fighter comparable to the Sukho Su-27Sk.The head of the Chinese Airforce and the Defense Minster of China are in Pakistan right now and the Foreign Minister is arriving a weeks time.

Pakistan had politely turned down Block 50 F-16s after President Musharraf was offered the Chinese J-10s. The earthquake was used as an excuse to back out of the F-16 deal, and reduce the number of F-16s purchased by Pakistan. The news that Pakistan will be receiving the J-11 one of the most modern Chinese fighters certainly confirms the rumors that have been circulating on the net.

Russia may sue China over pirated fighter Press Trust of India / Moscow April 22, 2008

Russia has threatened to sue China for copying its Sukhoi Su-27SK fighters and its pirate production for export to Pakistan and other Third World countries at much cheaper prices, according to a media report.

“Russia has officially notified China that the production of J11 (fighters), a copy of Russian Su-27SK, is the violation of inter-governmental agreements. Moscow has vowed to launch legal procedures for the protection of its intellectual property,” leading daily ‘Nezavisimaya Gazeta’ reported today.

Under the 1996 agreement, China had the right to assemble 200 Su-27SK fighters under the local brand J11. However, after receiving 95 kits and 180 AL31F engines Beijing in November 2004 notified Moscow that it no more needs Russian kits for the assembly of Su-27 fighters, saying that combat capabilities of the fighter were very limited and further action would be taken after analysis of production experience by Chinese experts, the daily disclosed.

“It seems the analysis was successful, as in the beginning of 2007 China unveiled its ‘development’- J11B fighter, suspiciously reminding of Su-27,” it reported.

The daily said that although China suspended the contract on the supply of kits, it continued the import of engines as from the very beginning Moscow had refused to give assembly licence, ‘even for a lot of money’

.
Well sounds like something happening behind close doors. Because cutting down F16 numbers must have reason, when Pakistan desperately need high tech avionics.

 

[SU 30 MKI]

But The Big Question lines from where PAF Bring modern RADAR, WEAPONS , defense Systems and moreover Engine....


Remember Currently PAF is not buying any Chinese RADAR , engine , etc etc...why not Chinese RADAR and WEAPON System ??? Because they are inferior.

Like this any plane with not good RADAR, WEAPON systems, defense system is useless.....epically without good engine.

Chinese 4th Gen like 3rd Gen of Western things

 

[Myth_buster_1]

But The Big Question lines from where PAF Bring modern RADAR, WEAPONS , defense Systems and moreover Engine....


Remember Currently PAF is not buying any Chinese RADAR , engine , etc etc...why not Chinese RADAR and WEAPON System ??? Because they are inferior.

Like this any plane with not good RADAR, WEAPON systems, defense system is useless.....epically without good engine.

Chinese 4th Gen like 3rd Gen of Western things

Indian military tech is like pakistani CNG rakshaz..
same level of reply..

 

[kidwaibhai]

But The Big Question lines from where PAF Bring modern RADAR, WEAPONS , defense Systems and moreover Engine....


Remember Currently PAF is not buying any Chinese RADAR , engine , etc etc...why not Chinese RADAR and WEAPON System ??? Because they are inferior.

Like this any plane with not good RADAR, WEAPON systems, defense system is useless.....epically without good engine.

Chinese 4th Gen like 3rd Gen of Western things

First of all i doubt that the PAF will go with Ruski tech. even if we are buying these aircraft the radars wont be a problem because we are incorporating western radar and weapons in the jf-17 we could do the same thing with this J-11B

 

[SABRE]

But The Big Question lines from where PAF Bring modern RADAR, WEAPONS , defense Systems and moreover Engine....


Remember Currently PAF is not buying any Chinese RADAR , engine , etc etc...why not Chinese RADAR and WEAPON System ??? Because they are inferior.

Like this any plane with not good RADAR, WEAPON systems, defense system is useless.....epically without good engine.

Chinese 4th Gen like 3rd Gen of Western things

Probably the same place where PAF is buying Radar and Missiles for the JF-17. FRANCE. Capitalist world usually gives a damn about who you are as long as you can give them hard cash for their products.

 

[Neo]

Chinese technolgy may be inferior compared to western standards if it meets the ASR its good enough for us, if not we go shopping in the west in friendly countries like France and Italy.

FC-20 will have a mix of Chinese, French, Italian and German subsystems, incase we go for the J-11B we'll probably apply same avionics suite to cut costs and to improve performance.

 

[Quwa]

Consider the requirements; to the Chinese the J-10 is a solid air superiority fighter and the J-11-series is more of a maritime & strike fighter. It appears that PLAAF will focus on the new J-10X currently under development & testing - J-10X would probably form the basis of FC-20. PLAN and PLAAF's strike fleets are considering the J-11B and J-11BS (two seat) variants.

IMO the PAF as a defensive force would be fine with the FC-20 & JF-17, based on their pattern of improvement - it would be our equivalent to Eurofighter & Gripen. However for power projection - i.e. long-range strike; maritime support to Navy, etc, the J-11B would be a good choice. It's possible that after 2015 the PN and PAF Southern Command would both use J-11B/BS.

As for performance...in terms of at least physical airframe performance, I think the J-10X and J-11B in a few years would be Typhoon & SU-35BM class, respectively.

 

[fatman17]

You do realize that if the PRC sells the J-11 to Pakistan, it is going to face a lot of flak from Russia.

Plus, the first post is mere speculation and cannot be termed entirely credible.

I doubt PAF would get the J-11; it can procure the Sukhois directly from Russia though.

i agree - the source is questionable!

 

[ddrbdgzy]

good news .

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Source to be verified!

I donot think China can offer them without Russian approval.

 

[ddrbdgzy]

i think china have his way to offer pakistan the J-11

 

[EagleEyes]

Source to be verified!

I donot think China can offer them without Russian approval.

Other than the copyright issue. Most of the equipment is 100% Chinese.

I do support your view however. That its probably not gonna happen.