Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)

[Beast]

There is more chance we get J20 in small numbers in the far future then J11. Adding J11 means a lot of more problems in maintenance, training and total costs.With India getting into stealth the PAF will be forced to do the same.

Haha.. Are you joking? Get J20 then get J11??

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well the problem I find with J11 logic is that it will only enhance us strategically from very few aspects

a) Ok it will carry 1-2 more missiles great
b) Ok it can fly in just a bit more then other planes

But what else ? The marginal gains in battle field can be over come by superior Avionics on JF17 thunder and lets say J10B which will be enough for Pakistan Air-force.

What is important for us - as Pakistan is if we plan to purchase a aircraft carrier then yes by all means invest in a J11 platform as you need twin engines for safe take off and landing on Aircraft carriers ( of course makes it easier)

But J10B is a perfect plant for Air Superiority for Pakistan's needs its perfect

The only thing we are missing in our National Asset box is

a) AESA radar , implementation ( of course are researching and developing with china) but its coming soon
b) High altitude defence

Our Air-Air Missiles that we have in our inventory have given us ability to stand toe to toe with best fighter planes in world specially the Chinese versions that allow us (classified distances and modifications)

J11 is I think is great option to have but I think


JF17 thunder 300 (AESA upgrades) + link up with Chinese AWACs
J10B 60 (AESA upgrades) + link up with Chinese AWACs
70 F16 C/D levels + plus Erie eye AWACs link up

Sufficient for our Airforce

Just need to add S300 , like Chinese technology Ground to Air for city wide protection on borders etc
Getting J11 would be repetition and waste of resources that can be spent to lets say

Built 6 submarines or 10 frigates for Pakistan Navy

or purchase of 10 batteries for air defence high altitude


Example:

You have J11 flying with what 10-11 missiles 4 planes - almost 44 missiles flying in attack

vs J10B flying with lets say 8 missiles 6 planes - 48 missiles (if the J10B has better missiles it will still kill J11)

Becasue we are producing JF17 thunder serial production so we could just balance out things by just producing more JF17 thunders - we have 100% control over things


One area where we do lack is Navy frigates and Submarines
One area we do lack is High Altitude Air defence
One area we do lack is helicopters
One area we do lack is Transport class planes need 20-30 such planes

Airforce is doing just fine

 

[RazorMC]

J-10 version for Pakistan couple with newer f 16s are best counter for Su 30 ...and forget about t-50 it is years away....!

The J-10 is very good aircraft, but it doesn't level out with the Block 52 yet.
Once the Su-30 MKIs get the AESA radars they will be superior to the F-16 in many aspects except dogfighting.
It is an incorrect assumption that the J-10 and Vipers are better then the Sukhois.

 

[RazorMC]

But I think China may have played the game too far if it export J-11B, the license to PRC covers only own production but not export. PRC still plays within the rules of producing for domestic use only. I hope they do not cross the line by exporting.

The Su-27SK was part of the license production deal, but the J-11 is a Chinese reverse-engineered variant of the Su-27SK. Russia is already furious and threatening legal action against J-11 production. It will never let the J-11 be exported.
Both China and Pakistan understand that.

 

[Manticore]

The J-10 is very good aircraft, but it doesn't level out with the Block 52 yet.
Once the Su-30 MKIs get the AESA radars they will be superior to the F-16 in many aspects except dogfighting.
It is an incorrect assumption that the J-10 and Vipers are better then the Sukhois.

plz explain all 3 statements and the grounds on which you have come to these conclusions

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

Twin engine fighters are not part of PAF's strategy because of their higher procurement and maintainence cost combined with more fuel consumption.
I think that we ought to acquire F-16 technology through third-parties. The JF-17 and the J-10 are not suitable for defense against the Su-30MKIs and the soon to come T-50.

FACEPALM. FACEPALM. FACEPALM.

 

[farhan_9909]

i hope pakistan get only few squardens of the j-11B

this will give us edge over indian MKI and other MMRCA contenders

only few squarden will give us long range and a true air superiority fighter

 

[Mech]

i hope pakistan get only few squardens of the j-11B

this will give us edge over indian MKI and other MMRCA contenders

only few squarden will give us long range and a true air superiority fighter

I do not think the J-11B is a proven fighter, but it would not be prudent to underestimate chinese ingenuity. I always thought the j-11B variant and MKI are on the same platform. I would appreciate if you can elaborate on the edge J-11B provides to the PAF. Also, isnt the J-11 a twin engine and therefore not consistent with the PAF doctrine of operating single engine crafts?

 

[Secret Service]

The J-10 is very good aircraft, but it doesn't level out with the Block 52 yet.
Once the Su-30 MKIs get the AESA radars they will be superior to the F-16 in many aspects except dogfighting.
It is an incorrect assumption that the J-10 and Vipers are better then the Sukhois.

i totaly disagree...Su 30mki is over rated by india...it has all the qualities of 4.5 th G fighter but it is never used in a conflict or a dog fight...and it doesnt mean it cant be shot down...

 

[Qasibr]

In China's exercises the J-10 has been known to perform better than the J-11(modernised SU-30). The kill ratio was very skewed. Big aircraft with huge radar signatures do not have an edge over smaller and more nimble aircraft just because of more missiles.

As avionics improve and alot more performance is deliverable in much smaller devices, modern avionics in smaller aircrafts seems to be the general trend in the aviation industry.

I don't know how people come to the conclusion that the SU-30 is better than the J-10. If you listen to the Indian hype they've got videos of the SU-30 copying the airshow demos they saw the F-22 doing and claiming that these aircraft are equal. Then in actual combat exercises in the US, they get beat up very very badly. They're good at illusions, that's bollywood. Little substance, much deception.

 

[Beast]

The Su-27SK was part of the license production deal, but the J-11 is a Chinese reverse-engineered variant of the Su-27SK. Russia is already furious and threatening legal action against J-11 production. It will never let the J-11 be exported.
Both China and Pakistan understand that.

Russia government never has problem with China J-11 production as China bought the right of Su-27. Sukhoi CEO statement is never equal to Putin statement. Russia manufacturer and Russia government are 2 different matters. I know Russia weapon producer are bitter over China side but as long as Russia government give instruction the Weapon producer need to obey.

Just like yr RD-93 case. MIG Bureau all the while bark about JF-17 sales going to hurt Mig-29. Few years ago they were even rumour Russia going to stop re export of RD-93. In the end what happen? Putin officially ink the deal of approving re export of RD-93 to PAF and shut up MIG.

I advise you refrain from reading mis info regarding China license production of Su-27. I have ink to official statement of Russia government official stating they have no problem with China regarding this issue. Even Rosoboronexport many time sprut rubbish which is not in line with Russia government statement.

 

[Beast]

The J-10 is very good aircraft, but it doesn't level out with the Block 52 yet.
Once the Su-30 MKIs get the AESA radars they will be superior to the F-16 in many aspects except dogfighting.
It is an incorrect assumption that the J-10 and Vipers are better then the Sukhois.

J-10 is not inferior to blk52 in Air to Air superiority but inferior only in terms of Air to ground abilities. In terms of Air superiority, J-10 will eat Blk 52.

JF-17 already reaches 70-80 percent of Blk52. So what do you think of J-10? Btw, that statement is say by PAF chief. So you don't say I am BS,ok.

Latest J-10B will also get AESA. It air superiority will continue to dominate. Plus added with DSI, its radar signature will be even smaller. Making it further hard to detect on radar screen.

 

[RazorMC]

plz explain all 3 statements and the grounds on which you have come to these conclusions

* J-10 B improves the aircraft's air-to-ground capabilities but still falls behind when it comes to armament variation and technologocal advantage that the F-16s offer.

* Without going into details, AESA is a better radar altogether and is difficult to jam because of its ability to work with varying frequencies. The US has already incorporated this tech into their 5th gen. fighters. It is also harder to detect. F-16 E/F have AESA and this, I believe, is what we need to get for our birds as well.

* Sukhois being better is merely my opinion since I favour air-superiority fighters like F-15, Su-35 and F-22. Long-range strategic air-superiority is a must for any air-force seeking to exert influence beyond their borders.

--------------------
EDIT: J-10 and JF-17 not J-10 and Vipers

 

[RazorMC]

i totaly disagree...Su 30mki is over rated by india...it has all the qualities of 4.5 th G fighter but it is never used in a conflict or a dog fight...and it doesnt mean it cant be shot down...

Yes definitely, dogfighting is F-16 territory even today.
But it is a different figther and PAF needs air-superiority fighters as well to pressurize India even further.

 

[RazorMC]

J-10 is not inferior to blk52 in Air to Air superiority but inferior only in terms of Air to ground abilities. In terms of Air superiority, J-10 will eat Blk 52.

JF-17 already reaches 70-80 percent of Blk52. So what do you think of J-10? Btw, that statement is say by PAF chief. So you don't say I am BS,ok.

Latest J-10B will also get AESA. It air superiority will continue to dominate. Plus added with DSI, its radar signature will be even smaller. Making it further hard to detect on radar screen.

What do you exactly mean by "JF-17 already reaches 70-80 percent of Blk52" ?
What constitutes 70-80 percent ?
But J-10 B with its improvements is undoubtedly a better aircraft.