Pakistan foils coup plot

[Awesome]

Are all muslims in this board anti ISLAM?

We are pro-Islam and would never let it be taken over by terrorists. Free men we are, and we only bow to Allah. We refuse to bow to the commands of a Mullah.

 

[Awesome]

The purpose of the terrorist is to terrorize.

You say 600,000 Iraqi's have been killed. Who killed them? U.S. troops intentionally targeting civilians for the purpose of striking fear into their hearts?
Or are the majority indescriminately slaughtered by their fellow Muslims...the ones that you can't understand why we're calling them terrorists?

This is terrorism. The deliberate targeting and slaughter of innocent men, women and children on a massive scale. Get it now? Or do I have to spell it out in smaller words?

Yes but extremists like him are justifying their actions by simplifying it by your carelessness. Face it, its always going to be 600,000 of them than one of ours for the American forces. Everybody is sure shot convinced, it doesn't matter to the American government if this number was upto 6Million or 60 million. They will try to use this tactic to take more Muslims towards matching that same lunacy of the American forces with their failed wars.

And there won't be a PFF everywhere to fight ideologies with ideologies. You have a decision to make. You can either aid us or remain empowering the lunatics amongst us by ignoring the lunacy amongst your own.

600,000 dead, whichever way you rationalize it, it's a number that can piss anyone off. And everyone chooses to respond differently.

 

[Spring Onion]

Prophet Mohammed (saw) also called for Islam and exposed tyrants of the time what would you have called him if he was with us today?

Ray stop ur tactics to bash our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

2nldy u asked Sid to stop singing Musharraf bhajan for ur kind information we are Muslims and we dont sing Hindu Bhajans

Plz brothers librate your minds from slavery, ask your self where have you learned this word TERRIST from?

Ur flag shows u live in England right !? ok if u are so keen to liberate Muslims from 'Slavery' what are u doing there? and if u are so keen to fight US why dont you asign urself the same task go to Iraq or Afghanistan and fight them

but plz spare us and stop creating hate in our members' minds from other regions against us and ISlam

 

[Awesome]

It's not Ray, Jana. Ray's not like that.

And he said that to me, I think. Haha also carried the nick Sid for a while in school (short for Siddiqui).

Please don't encourage him to be any more violent than he already wishes to be. IIRC he plans to visit Pakistan from one of his posts. I hope whichever Madrassa (like its a sure thing aint it?) he goes to doesn't fuel his fire and instills some good values and moderate ideas.

 

[Spring Onion]

It's not Ray, Jana. Ray's not like that.

And he said that to me, I think. Haha also carried the nick Sid for a while in school (short for Siddiqui)..

oopssssssssss did i say Ray?

Yeh yeh hez not like that .

hmmmm hey are u going to accept that job he had offered u.

Please don't encourage him to be any more violent than he already wishes to be. IIRC he plans to visit Pakistan from one of his posts. I hope whichever Madrassa (like its a sure thing aint it?) he goes to doesn't fuel his fire and instills some good values and moderate ideas.

When he (Salahuddin) come to Pakistan just send him to me im gonna overhaul him

hez not violent hez just ranting trying hard to prove Muslims are violent and trying to persu members at PFF to be anti-west and anti-US and to create bad image of Muslims here.

 

[sparten]

Jana, no one should send that disgrace to Salahuddin Ayubis name to Pakistan. Ever.

 

[Salahuddin]

We are pro-Islam and would never let it be taken over by terrorists. Free men we are, and we only bow to Allah. We refuse to bow to the commands of a Mullah.

How is this bowing to Allah when your are refusing his commands to be implemented on societal level? Your asking to Keep his commands within 4 walls of the mosque when you call for Secular Society .


We dont pick and choose when it comes to Islam , it is fard to rule by what Allah has revealed just like praying 5 times a day is fard.

Please brother dont use this word TERRORIST which you and your rulers have learned from the west. Why dont you use this word on west who carpet bombs muslims.?

 

[Salahuddin]

We are pro-Islam and would never let it be taken over by terrorists. Free men we are, and we only bow to Allah. We refuse to bow to the commands of a Mullah.

The evidence that the appointment of a Khalifah is obligatory upon all Muslims is in the Quran, Sunnah and the Ijma' (consensus) of the Sahabah.

Evidence 1

"And rule between them by that which Allah revealed to you, and do not follow their vain desires away from the truth which came to you". [TMQ 5:48]

Allah (swt) has ordered the Prophet to rule between Muslims by that which He (swt) revealed to him and has obliged Muslims to restrict themselves to all the rules of the Shari’ah. An order of Allah (swt) to the Prophet is an order to the entire Ummah, unless there is evidence which limits the order to him. In this case there is no such evidence, so the order to rule by all that Allah has revealed is binding for all the Muslims.

Because the word Ma (what) is general in its meaning, it signifies that the order refers to all of the aspects of governing that have been revealed, and not merely a part of it.

This order to the prophet has been given in a decisive manner, and does not leave room for doubt or alternative meanings or understandings.


Evidence 2


"..Verily the 'Hukm' (command, Judgment) is for none but Allah.." [TMQ 12:40]


This ayah states that the privilege of rule is reserved for Allah alone. In fact, it is an aspect of tauhid to refer to Allah for solutions to all of life’s affairs, and one of the names of Allah is "The Legislator".


Evidence 3


"Whoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, they are disbelievers" [TMQ 5:44]

"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are oppressors" [5:45]

"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are transgressors" [5:47]


Whoever does not govern with what Allah has revealed is of the disbelievers, or oppressors, or transgressors. Again, because the word Ma (what) in this verse is general, so it includes everything that Allah has revealed.

 

[Salahuddin]

We are pro-Islam and would never let it be taken over by terrorists. Free men we are, and we only bow to Allah. We refuse to bow to the commands of a Mullah.

Use the term ‘terrorism’ consistently and not based on the whims or dictates of west.

Why not accuse western governments, of hypocrisy in that they engage in terrorist activity by cutting/pasting/adding/deleting international legislation and protocols to make their actions legitimate. Therefore, by this, you US and its alies is the biggest sponsor and cause of terror around the world.


Why not argue that the defence of lands by our people is not a terrorist act, but a right, which even the western governments themselves would undertake.

US invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq and heinous crimes; like the occupation of Palestine and atrocities committed against the Chechen people that is called TERRORISM.


I am not a mullah nor am I linked to any madrasas , I am just ordinary Muslim who have studied the current situation that we are in and have come to the conclusion, that only by establising Islamic state we can reclaim our honour dignity and rais it to the level like in the past.

 

[Awesome]

How is this bowing to Allah when your are refusing his commands to be implemented on societal level? Your asking to Keep his commands within 4 walls of the mosque when you call for Secular Society .


We dont pick and choose when it comes to Islam , it is fard to rule by what Allah has revealed just like praying 5 times a day is fard.

Please brother dont use this word TERRORIST which you and your rulers have learned from the west. Why dont you use this word on west who carpet bombs muslims.?

We want to see his commands accepted at every level as well. But we are ready to do the extra effort of getting those commands, the message, accepted by the people.

Anyone can form a mutawwa police and force people to pray. Make them go on their own accord. With Allah's infinite power he could've made us into worshipping zombies but he gave us freewill and thus we are dedicated in giving people freewill as well.

It's easy to put an end to your extremist message by banning you, but the only effective way is to counter your message with another moderate message. Afterall if I'm convinced that I'm right, I don't have to force anything. People will believe my message, not my force.

Same way, you're saying when no one believes your message the will of Allah should be implemented. How? You'll end up creating more Saudi and Taliban style governments.

 

[Awesome]

The evidence that the appointment of a Khalifah is obligatory upon all Muslims is in the Quran, Sunnah and the Ijma' (consensus) of the Sahabah.

Evidence 1

"And rule between them by that which Allah revealed to you, and do not follow their vain desires away from the truth which came to you". [TMQ 5:48]

Allah (swt) has ordered the Prophet to rule between Muslims by that which He (swt) revealed to him and has obliged Muslims to restrict themselves to all the rules of the Shari’ah. An order of Allah (swt) to the Prophet is an order to the entire Ummah, unless there is evidence which limits the order to him. In this case there is no such evidence, so the order to rule by all that Allah has revealed is binding for all the Muslims.

Because the word Ma (what) is general in its meaning, it signifies that the order refers to all of the aspects of governing that have been revealed, and not merely a part of it.

This order to the prophet has been given in a decisive manner, and does not leave room for doubt or alternative meanings or understandings.


Evidence 2


"..Verily the 'Hukm' (command, Judgment) is for none but Allah.." [TMQ 12:40]


This ayah states that the privilege of rule is reserved for Allah alone. In fact, it is an aspect of tauhid to refer to Allah for solutions to all of life’s affairs, and one of the names of Allah is "The Legislator".


Evidence 3


"Whoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, they are disbelievers" [TMQ 5:44]

"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are oppressors" [5:45]

"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are transgressors" [5:47]


Whoever does not govern with what Allah has revealed is of the disbelievers, or oppressors, or transgressors. Again, because the word Ma (what) in this verse is general, so it includes everything that Allah has revealed.

What and giving freedom to people to choose whether or not they follow this or any other ruling is anti-Islam? What if a person doesn't want to be Muslim? Or my version of a Muslim. I can't force him into it. I can just try to convince him to be one with talk.

 

[Awesome]

Use the term ‘terrorism’ consistently and not based on the whims or dictates of west.

Why not accuse western governments, of hypocrisy in that they engage in terrorist activity by cutting/pasting/adding/deleting international legislation and protocols to make their actions legitimate. Therefore, by this, you US and its alies is the biggest sponsor and cause of terror around the world.


Why not argue that the defence of lands by our people is not a terrorist act, but a right, which even the western governments themselves would undertake.

US invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq and heinous crimes; like the occupation of Palestine and atrocities committed against the Chechen people that is called TERRORISM.


I am not a mullah nor am I linked to any madrasas , I am just ordinary Muslim who have studied the current situation that we are in and have come to the conclusion, that only by establising Islamic state we can reclaim our honour dignity and rais it to the level like in the past.

I think you need to be consistent. Whereas I recognize the follies of people like Bush and people like Bin Laden, you just want accountability of Bush and not Bin Laden.

 

[Salahuddin]

What and giving freedom to people to choose whether or not they follow this or any other ruling is anti-Islam? What if a person doesn't want to be Muslim? Or my version of a Muslim. I can't force him into it. I can just try to convince him to be one with talk.

Life as a non-Muslim in the Caliphate


Historically, when the Caliphate was ruling Jerusalem, it protected the holiest Church in Christianity - The Church of the Holy Sepulchre (above). The keys to this church have been held for centuries by the Nusseibeh Muslim family who until today still open and close the doors on a daily basis.

The Caliphate is a unique political system from the ideology of Islam that bears no resemblance to any of the Muslim Governments today. It is a government built upon a concept of citizenship regardless of ethnicity, gender or creed and is totally opposed to the oppression of any religious or ethnic grouping.

Allah (swt) says in the Holy Qur'an:

“O You who believe! Indeed We have created you from a single male and female and We have made you into nations and tribes so that you know each other, Verily the noblest among you in the sight of Allah is the one who is most deeply conscious of Him. Behold Allah is all knowing, all aware.”
[TMQ 49:13]
Non-Muslims have an honourable status in the Caliphate. They are referred to as dhimmi (people of contract), which means they are equal citizens with the Muslims and enjoy the full rights of citizenship. Unlike in Britain they are not given derogatory names like “ethnic minorities” or “immigrants”, that implies they are 2nd class citizens and not really welcome. The Prophet Muhammad (saw) said: “Whoever harms a dhimmi has harmed me.”

He (saw) also said: “The one who kills a Mu'ahid (people with whom the State has treaties) without right he will not smell the fragrance of jannah (heaven) even if its smell was forty years travelling distance.” [Reported in the Hadith book Ahmed]

Imam Qarafi (Classical Islamic Scholar) summed up the responsibility of the Caliphate to the dhimmi when he said: “It is the responsibility of the Muslims to the People of the Dhimma to care for their weak, fulfil the needs of the poor, feed the hungry, provide clothes, address them politely, and even tolerate their harm even if it was from a neighbour, even though the Muslim would have an upper hand. The Muslims must also advise them sincerely on their affairs and protect them against anyone who tries to hurt them or their family, steal their wealth, or violates their rights.”

The rights of non-Muslims are enshrined in statutory Islamic Law (shariah) as detailed above, and cannot be reversed by legal precedent or the whims of any government. This provides stability and security to the non-Muslims allowing them to live their lives without worrying about losing their rights some time in the future. Contrast this to Britain where the Muslim community waits in fear of the new Anti-terror Legislation that will curtail their already limited rights. Governments and the courts can introduce draconian legislation at any time in the future in the name of combating terrorism and national security. An example of this is the ruling by the Court of Appeal in 2004 that allowed evidence obtained by torture abroad to be admissible in special terrorism trials. Some aspects of life under the Caliphate are discussed here.

The Government

The Caliph (head of state) and his government believe in Islam and their motivation for strictly adhering to the letter of the law is their belief in accountability for all their actions when they die. This belief will create trustworthy and responsible politicians, not politicians who say one thing and do something else. They are chosen for their merit rather than due to “political favours”. Having said this, members of the government are not divine and can make mistakes and can commit crimes. For this reason a strong and effective accountability process exists through an independent judicial court called the Unjust Acts Court (mahkamat muzalim), which has the power to impeach any government official including the Caliph if they breach their ruling contracts and commit injustice.

Consultation is one of the pillars of ruling and a House of Representatives (majlis ash-shura) will exist in the capital and all provinces of the Caliphate. They will consist of men and women from all religions and ethnic groupings within the state. Non-Muslim representatives will have guaranteed seats in the House, to raise any concerns their communities have. They will not be required to take any oath that contradicts their beliefs in order to become a member of the House. Their only requirement is to obey the rules of the House and the Speaker. Unlike in Democracy, this House of Representatives is not a legislature. The only resolutions passed by the House that are binding on the government, are those related to the practical implementation of government policy, and those related to removing government officials.

Unlike the institutional racism that is prevalent in the British Civil Service, civil servants in the Caliphate are chosen on the basis of merit rather than gender, race or creed. Non-Muslims are encouraged to join the civil service and bring their skills and expertise to aid the Islamic Government. Historically, the Jews after being expelled from Spain in the 15 th century, were welcomed to the Caliphate and contributed much to the state as they will do in the future. Jewish physicians from the school of Salanca were employed in the service of the Caliph, and in many places glass making and metalworking were Jewish monopolies. With their knowledge of foreign languages they were the greatest competitors of the Venetian traders. All this led the Ottoman Caliph Sultan Bajazet II, to say with reference to the expulsion of the Jews by Ferdinand, the Catholic King of Spain, “How can you call this Ferdinand ‘wise' - he who has impoverished his dominions in order to enrich mine?”

The Legal System

The Caliph does not have immunity from prosecution and nor do any of his Cabinet. If any of them commit a criminal offence they will be taken to court and tried before a judge. The judge applies the sentence without regard to their status or government position. Even the Caliph can be impeached and removed from office if he violated his ruling contract (baya).

The Caliphate cannot suspend habeas corpus by interning any of its citizens. It is has been reported on the authority of Abdullah ibn Zubayr in the hadith book Abu Dawood, “The Messenger of Allah has ordered that the two disputing parties should sit before a judge.” Therefore any citizen whether Muslim or non-Muslim must be brought before a judicial court and their case investigated by a judge.

The burden of proof required to convict someone of an offence in an Islamic Court is far higher than in Britain. The court does not accept circumstantial evidence as a legal proof, and only trustworthy witnesses, whether Muslim or non-Muslim are allowed to give testimony. Many miscarriages of justice have occurred in Britain due to flawed forensic evidence (Birmingham six trial) or due to convicted criminals giving testimony. Confessions are investigated to ensure they were not extracted under duress or torture. Britain currently allows evidence obtained through torture in foreign countries, as evidence in special terrorism trials.

The Presumption of Innocence exists in an Islamic Court and the onus is on the plaintiff to provide the evidence. This legal principle cannot be overturned by the government of the day, as Tony Blair is trying to do by introducing more summary offences. Narrated in the hadith book by Al-Baihaqqi, the Prophet Muhammad (saw) said "It is the plaintiff who should provide the evidence, and the oath is due on the one who disapproves”.

Referring to judging between people of the book (Jews and Christians), Allah (swt) says in the Holy Qur'an:

“And if you judge, judge with justice between them. Verily, Allah loves those who act justly.” [TMQ 5:42]

All these legal principles are exemplified in the famous legal trial that took place between Caliph Ali and one of his Jewish citizens in the 7th century. The Jew stole a shield from Ali so he took the matter to court and brought his son as a witness. The judge ruled against Ali even though he was the head of state (Caliph), stating that a son cannot be a witness for a father in court. When the Jew witnessed such fairness he voluntarily confessed that he stole the shield and embraced Islam.

The Economy

The Caliphate's currency is based on the Gold Standard providing economic stability for domestic and international trade, as well as low inflation. There are no interest rates so wealth is created through investment as opposed to savings. This investment led economy where wealth is constantly circulating coupled with a stable currency will produce strong economic growth, and low unemployment.

Private companies cannot own natural resources such as oil and gas. These are owned by the people and managed by the government, with their revenues going to the Treasury (Bait ul-Mal). Revenue gained from natural resources must be used for the interests of the people, and the House of Representatives will advise the government on where the money is spent.

Taxation in the Caliphate is on excess wealth and not income, and there are no regressive taxes like VAT. The only taxes on companies are the agricultural land taxes (ushur and kharaj) that are a percentage of the agricultural produce or the land value. Non-agricultural companies do not pay this. Muslim owned companies will also pay the zakat tax, but non-Muslim companies are exempt from this.

Non-Muslim men must pay a nominal tax called Jizya that gives them full citizenship rights, exempting them from National Service and taxes specific to Muslims like zakat . Jizya is means tested and there are different bands for different levels of wealth. Caliph Omar imposed three bands for the Jizya tax - 4 dinars (£108) for the rich, 2 dinars (£54) for the middle class and 1 dinar (£27) for the poor. The Jizya tax rate is much lower rate than that of zakat , t herefore the tax burden of non-Muslims is lower than that of Muslims in the Caliphate.

The Caliphate does not have National Insurance to pay for health care, pensions and other state benefits. A modern efficient Health Service must be provided free of charge to the people. This includes free dental care, optician costs and prescriptions. There are no pensions or state benefits as such within the Caliphate. All pensioners, women, children, unemployed and those with disabilities must be provided for financially by their families. Only if they had no family or the family cannot provide for them will the government then intervene. The current pensions crisis facing Britain will therefore not exist.

Community Life

Non-Muslims will not be isolated in to ghettos, with poor housing and low government funding. Muslims and non-Muslims will live together side by side, as neighbours in the community. Neighbours have many rights over each other, designed to keep the home and community a place of peace and tranquillity. A place where children can play safely without fear of abuse. Nuisance Neighbours and yobs roaming the streets are a growing problem in Britain due to selfishness and individualism. Muslims do not hold these ideas, and instead believe in responsibility to their neighbours and community. It has been reported on the authority of Ibn ‘Umar and ‘Aishah in the hadith books Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet Muhammad (saw) said: "Jibril (Angel Gabriel) kept recommending treating neighbours with kindness until I thought he would assign them a share of inheritance".

People cannot distress their neighbours by playing loud music, growing high hedges, parking irresponsibly or even backbiting them. They must enquire about their neighbour's welfare and aid them as much as they can.

Anti-social behaviour on the streets is not tolerated and Inspectors (qadi hisbah) with the power to impose immediate sentences will patrol the neighbourhoods, accompanied by Police. Pubs and clubs that sell alcohol are prohibited and there is a strong punishment for those found drunk and disorderly on the streets. Non-Muslims however can drink and trade alcohol amongst themselves as long as it remains in their private homes and bars.

Religion

The Caliphate cannot force or pressurise any non-Muslim to become Muslim. Churches, Synagogues and Temples are all protected by the Caliphate. Those who follow a religion can practise their religion without interference or harassment from the police and authorities. The government will not threaten to close places of worship or spy on the worshippers and sermons as the British government is doing.

Historically, when the Caliphate was ruling Jerusalem, it protected the holiest Church in Christianity - The Church of the Holy Sepulchre. The keys to this church have been held for centuries by the Nusseibeh Muslim family who until today still open and close the doors on a daily basis.

Furthermore, Sir Thomas Arnold in his book 'The Call to Islam’ states: "We have never heard about any attempt to compel Non-Muslim parties to adopt Islam or about any organised persecution aiming at exterminating Christianity. If the Caliphs had chosen one of these plans, they would have wiped out Christianity as easily as what happened to Islam during the reign of Ferdinand and Isabella in Spain; by the same method which Louis XIV followed to make Protestantism a creed whose followers were to be sentenced to death; or with the same ease of keeping the Jews away from Britain for a period of three hundred fifty years."

In September 2005 a proposal to allow Muslim Canadian citizens to use shariah for settling family disputes provoked outcry and protests, even though Canada has allowed Christians and Jews to settle family law matters in faith-based tribunals since 1991. The proposal was eventually thrown out citing Canada 's commitment to its secular principles. The Caliphate, unlike the intolerance of secular states, allows non-Muslims to have their own courts and judges to settle family law disputes and other matters related to their personal lives and religion. Sir Thomas Arnold in his book 'The Call to Islam' points out that under the Ottoman Sultans (Caliphs) the Christian Patriarch and the Grand Synod could decide all matters of faith and dogma without any interference of the State, something that was never the case under the previous Byzantine emperors.

International Relations

The Caliphate does not go to war based on lies and deceit. Its sole purpose in fighting a war is to remove injustice and bring a new system for the people to live under. Although America and Britain cite the same objectives in Iraq the reality is far from this. Their use of depleted uranium, torturing and killing of civilians and imposition of another corrupt system would never happen with the Caliphate. Historically the Caliphate won the hearts and minds of the people on the lands it occupied. It never mistreated them and as opposed to an Empire, it didn't impoverish them in order to enrich the capital.

In his book “Kitab Al-Kharaj” Abu Yusuf gives the following report: “After getting on peaceful terms with the people of Syria and collecting the dues of the Jizya and the Kharaj , news reached Abu ‘Ubeida that the Byzantines had amassed their troops to attack him. The effect of this was great on Abu ‘Ubeida and the Muslims. He sent messages to the rulers of cities with whose citizens he had made peace, asking them to return to their subjects the paid dues of the Jizya and Kharaj with an instruction to tell them: ‘We hereby return to you the money you have paid us, because of the news of the enemy troops amassed to attack us, but, if God grants us victory against the enemy, we will keep up to the promise and covenant between us.' When this was delivered to the dhimmi and their money returned to them, they told the Muslims: ‘May God bring you back to us and grant you victory over them!'”

The Caliphate will encourage non-Muslims from other countries to visit it, study in its universities and conduct trade. Economic and cultural treaties will be signed to facilitate this. Any non-Muslim visiting the Caliphate from a country that the Caliphate has a treaty with, can enter without the need for a visa. They are called a Mu'ahid and have full protection under the state similar to the dhimmi . Historically scholars and scientists from Europe flocked to the Caliphate and studied in the universities of Cordoba, Cairo and Baghdad.

The Caliphate's army must follow strict rules of engagement when fighting war (jihad). The soldiers do not fight the enemy out of anger or hatred, but to please their creator – Allah. Hence, atrocities like those committed at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq or Srebrenica in Bosnia, will not happen under a Caliphate. In the Battle of Khandaq 627CE, Ali (who later became a Caliph) was about to kill one of the enemy soldiers when the soldier spat in his face. Instead of killing him, Ali lowered his sword because he didn't want to kill him out of anger. This is an example of the high values held by soldiers in the Caliphate's army.

Non-Muslims are not obliged to do National Service, although they can join the Armed Forces if they wish. In the event of war it is the Muslims responsibility to fight and protect the non-Muslims from any harm.

Torturing anyone including prisoners of war is absolutely prohibited, and the perpetrators will face a severe punishment. Any evidence obtained via torture whether at home or abroad is not legally admissible in an Islamic Court.

The Intelligence Services and Police within the Caliphate cannot spy on Muslim or non-Muslim citizens. Phone tapping of their home and mobile phones is prohibited and is not admissible in an Islamic Court.





http://www.caliphate.co.uk/caliphate/nonmuslims.htm

 

[Sid]

Your ignorance of history does not take into account the fact that when Islam was implemented and the West was living in the dark ages, the Muslims were excelling in every field of science and invention.

Yes Islamic world progressed because at the time its society wasnt hijacked by extremists and self-proclaimed 'puritans'. Culture flourished as well as philosophical and intellectual ambition of the society which was eventually killed by these 'puritans' and the decline of the Islamic world started. I do not wish to argue about who is ignorant about history since I do not like showing off my credentials.

If you talk about intolerance, which country backs a succession of tyrannical dictators throughout the world, providing material support to these very dictators in order to kill its people? The answer is the US.

That same country gives Islamic world so much aid and benefits like easy access to its markets that without it, you'd succumb to kickbacks of globalization and revert to the stone age economically. Its OK to criticize the US for its short-sighted policies and the wrong actions it takes owing to those policies, but blaming it all on the US is a bit too much. Lets be rational and practical here.

What intolerance to Christian and Jews are you talking about? If you read the works of the former chief Rabbi, he calls the period of life under the system of Islam as their golden age, after they escaped the persecution of the Christian Monarchs in Spain.

What is past is past. Problem with you 'puritans' and procrastinators is, you are still living in the past. NO ONE is denying the tolerance that Islamic lands bestowed on their non-Muslim inhabitants in medeival times; but what goes on in today's Islamic world is quite the CONTRARY of that glorious past! Wake up and check out the ground reality. All fanatics want today is to wipe out non-Muslims from Islamic countries which is NOT what Islam is about in the first place. You want to boast about Islam's tolerance, PRACTICE IT and there'll be no need to bring the past up everytime to justify it!

Science and technology are interlinked; it was the scientific discoveries of the early Muslim scholars which were then marvelled at by the Western scientists. In every field from Algebra to Embryology there are key discoveries made by Muslims, to argue that this alone is a justification for any civilisation is indeed fanciful. If west is holding up the Internet as there marvellous discovery whilst children in Africa are dying because of the policies of your Capitalist multinationals and there government, it is indeed an indictment upon the Western civilisation.

And how many discoveries have the Muslims made since the dawn of the modern era? Once again, you live in the past! The reality is bitter and very different. If you happen to ever read the news, only TWO universities in the entire Islamic world made it to the top 200 universities list prepared by TIMES this year which is pathetic at best.

Sure Capitalism has its pros and cons but so far, its proven more beneficial than any other system which is not to say I am justifying it in any way. What about welfare states? How many Islamic countries fall in to that catagory? Problem is, Muslim intellectual thought has been suppressed over the centuries by self-proclaimed 'puritans' which has hindered the prosperity of each and every Islamic country out there today. Be bold and face up to reality.

 

[Sid]

People, problem with Mr Salahuddin is, he is a brain-washed ONE WAY street and so full of contradictions. In one post, he talks about 'no compulsion in religion' and in other posts, he wants a Khilafat even if its against the wishes of the people living in a particular country and force Islamic values on them!

His level of thinking can be linked to the Taleban for sure! All he wants to do is criticize everyone else for Muslims' ills and problems while the biggest part of criticizing a society's ills starts from self-critique, looking at where the society itself has gone wrong! Truth is, these puritans are like termites for the Muslim world. They will eat us from within completely as they continue to do so each day making us weaker economically and politically on the international scene.