Pakistan First ! The case for Pakistani Nationalism.

[Baibars_1260]

I'm sure we both know why Saudi Arabia doesn't lead the Muslims.....hint...it's for Saudis....right there in the name...
How can Allah make them lead anyone lol??

Ok, so instead of the Bani Quraish it is the Ale Saud. Who in your opinion is best suited to "lead" the Muslims? On whom will Allah( SWT) bestow this honor?
Chechens, Afghans?

I'm not gonna reply to rest of your post. All I have to say is that without Islam, Pakistan will face another 70 years of humiliation. If you're set on that path, then good luck.

Without Islam? So there is no Islam in Pakistan? Then Maulana Abul Kalam Azad and the Bhartiya Muslim leaders like Asaduddin Owaisi are right. So I guess the next 70 years will be worse than the last 70 years when in 1947 the only Made in Pakistan vehicles were donkey carts.
See this roving reporter video (1954). Don't see any JF-17s there.

Afghan Taliban. Don't be dumb now...
They also destroyed a lot of those poppy fields. The US army defends such fields though.

So the Afghan Taliban are the heroes of Islam due to whose actions Pakistan was dragged into the famous War on Terror for 20 years losing 70,000 men, women, children, and soldiers? What was Pakistan before September 11, 2001?

Nobody is answering my question:
If the Ummah is supreme then why is there a Pakistan?
Help please...

 

[Itachi]

Help please...

No. I'm done schooling kids...

Go read the Quran & Hadiths. You'll figure it out.

Ok, so instead of the Bani Quraish it is the Ale Saud. Who in your opinion is best suited to "lead" the Muslims? On whom will Allah( SWT) bestow this honor?
Chechens, Afghans?

It's up to Allah SWT. Who ever helps Islam, Allah helps those.

 

[Baibars_1260]

But Islamic Ideology has a direct confrontation with Nationalism. How youd you reconcile that. Do you want to make your religious identity secondary?

Nope, our religious identity is parallel, and by religious identity we mean ALL religious identities (not just Islamic ) as defined by the Founder of our Nation in his speech on August 11th 1947.

“You are free; you are free to go to your temples. You are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed—that has nothing to do with the business of the state.”

But perhaps you wouldn't understand that...
As in your country now...

 

[Cliftonite]

Ok, so instead of the Bani Quraish it is the Ale Saud. Who in your opinion is best suited to "lead" the Muslims? On whom will Allah( SWT) bestow this honor?
Chechens, Afghans?



Without Islam? So there is no Islam in Pakistan? Then Maulana Abul Kalam Azad and the Bhartiya Muslim leaders like Asaduddin Owaisi are right. So I guess the next 70 years will be worse than the last 70 years when in 1947 the only Made in Pakistan vehicles were donkey carts.
See this roving reporter video (1954). Don't see any JF-17s there.

So the Afghan Taliban are the heroes of Islam due to whose actions Pakistan was dragged into the famous War on Terror for 20 years losing 70,000 men, women, children, and soldiers? What was Pakistan before September 11, 2001?

Nobody is answering my question:
If the Ummah is supreme then why is there a Pakistan?
Help please...

You're banging your head against a wall with these folks here.

These are people who have grown up on half-truths and cherry-picked history akin to 1984 Orwellian newspeak.

I am in concurrence with what you said about Kashmir. 220 million people who feel that their nation cannot prosper and thrive until they liberste that valley of 8 million. Is Kashmir dying to be part of us? Hell no. It has chosen to side with India all times against us until 1988. If they really wanted to join us, they would have taken up arms like the Gilgit Baltistanis did in 1948.

Koshur Kashmiris don't even identify with Potohari Azad Kashmiris. One of our posters here from Britain who happens to be of Azad Kashmiri descent stated that explicitly. They want their own utopian independent Kashmir

These people lowkey adore Arabs. Their object of hero worship has found a new symbol in Erdogan who they see as the new Ottoman Caliph. Meanwhile anyone who has lived in Turkey (I have) can vouch how much Turks idolize Ataturk and his values.

They have been fed so much half-truths about Taliban. That they're some kind of pure warriors liberating Afghanistan. Meanwhile Afghans will tell you how much they hate Taliban.


All this adoration and jizzing in their pants for foreigners while Pakistanis suffer at home from malnutrition and poverty.

 

[W.11]

In fact it is a superiority complex... and it should be. Very few nations in the world have shown the resilience of this region. 5400 years. Faced, natural disasters, invasions, foreign rule.
We survived and will survive.

what about australian aboriginals who have preserved 10,000 years old culture and european onslaught? what about the maori people of newzealand etc?

lets not peddle BS like 5400 years, invasion and all that crap, look at the state of the country please.

regards

 

[Baibars_1260]

No. I'm done schooling kids...
Go read the Quran & Hadiths. You'll figure it out.

I do read the Quran and Hadith.. and as per the direction of our Prophet (PBUH) I also seek knowledge even if I have to go to China ( which I did). So I study a little history to the best of my ability.

Isn't it a dumb way to end a discussion with the statement " Go read the Quran & Hadith? ". I could give you a very similar advice but it is not relevant to the discussion,

It's up to Allah SWT. Who ever helps Islam, Allah helps those.

The punch line is "WHO" ? So who is helping Islam today?

 

[Baibars_1260]

what about australian aboriginals who have preserved 10,000 years old culture and european onslaught? what about the maori people of newzealand etc?

And I respect the Maoris and Australian aborigines too.They didn't disappear like many Native American tribes or the Tasmanians
But the Maoris and Aussie Aborigines remained stagnant and couldn't design missiles and aircraft or machine tools built in Misrikhas Punjab.

lets not peddle BS like 5400 years, invasion and all that crap, look at the state of the country please.

regards

We survived and developed. The state of the country is much better than 1947 when our troops hadn't been paid their salaries for three months and the food vendors in Rawalpindi were supplying food on credit to the families of officers in the Cantonement.. When our friendly neighbor cut off our coal supplies causing our railway to grind to a halt. The ingenuity of the Railway Mechanical engineers saved the day when they converted the locomotives to run on fuel oil. Remember the days when government officials sat on crates in tents typing out orders in the light of a kerosene lamp?
If you read a little of our nations history you won't feel so bad.

 

[khansaheeb]

Because Indian Muslims are not Muslims. Any people who betray Pakistan are not Muslims.


@PAKISTANFOREVER

You must be Indian. There is a concerted effort by the Indians on pdf recently to create a Pakistani Muslim -Indian Muslim division by continuously inciting hatred between the two. The Nazi Hindu Indian's time is coming up and there is nothing you can do about it. we will throw you into the bins of history.

 

[Baibars_1260]

You're banging your head against a wall with these folks here.

These are people who have grown up on half-truths and cherry-picked history akin to 1984 Orwellian newspeak.

I am in concurrence with what you said about Kashmir. 220 million people who feel that their nation cannot prosper and thrive until they liberste that valley of 8 million. Is Kashmir dying to be part of us? Hell no. It has chosen to side with India all times against us until 1988. If they really wanted to join us, they would have taken up arms like the Gilgit Baltistanis did in 1948.

Koshur Kashmiris don't even identify with Potohari Azad Kashmiris. One of our posters here from Britain who happens to be of Azad Kashmiri descent stated that explicitly. They want their own utopian independent Kashmir

These people lowkey adore Arabs. Their object of hero worship has found a new symbol in Erdogan who they see as the new Ottoman Caliph. Meanwhile anyone who has lived in Turkey (I have) can vouch how much Turks idolize Ataturk and his values.

They have been fed so much half-truths about Taliban. That they're some kind of pure warriors liberating Afghanistan. Meanwhile Afghans will tell you how much they hate Taliban.


All this adoration and jizzing in their pants for foreigners while Pakistanis suffer at home from malnutrition and poverty.

Read my post earlier (#182 onwards ) . It will be a part answer to your last post wishing in an ideal sense for a united Muslim population ( India, Pakistan, );,

My question will always be, Why Pakistan? Will answer my own question later. But would like your comments on it.

You must be Indian. There is a concerted effort by the Indians on pdf recently to create a Pakistani Muslim -Indian Muslim division by continuously inciting hatred between the two. The Nazi Hindu Indian's time is coming up and there is nothing you can do about it. we will throw you into the bins of history.

You didn't get my sarcasm. In fact the gentleman whose member ID I linked was the one I was addressing.
The smilies were there for a purpose.
There is no hatred between Indian Muslims and Pakistanis, though I am not so sure I can make the same statement for Bangladeshis.

 

[Cliftonite]

. It will be a part answer to your last post wishing in an ideal sense for a united Muslim population ( India, Pakistan, )

I don't particularly wish for a united Muslim population of India and Pakistan.

I only take offence at Pakistani people of the Indus denigrating Indian Muslims when the truth is that Pakistan was formed in large part by Indian Muslims. There was no concept of a separate Indus identity before 1947. The Pakhtuns under Bacha Khan were much more pliant towards Afghanistan than joining Punjab and Sindh. And the Sindhi was more pliant towards breaking away from Bombay province under Sindhi nationalism than forming a brotherhood of sorts with Punjabis and Pakhtuns.

This falsification of history and ganging up against Indian Muslims will not fly with me.

I am a Muhajir. My roots are from the West UP Doab. Nothing can change that. If the Pakhtun can pine for his Afghan Pakhtun brothers and influence state policy in the 1992 Afghan civil war and the Potohari cabal can pine for their Kashmir cause ruling the roost of the Pakistani foreign and defence policy, why must I keep quiet about my Indian Muslim folks? I am just as much Pakistani as the rest.

 

[xuxu1457]

America is also America first.
Normal. If Pakistanis are not Pakistani first, that's abnormal.

 

[Surya 1]

Nope, our religious identity is parallel, and by religious identity we mean ALL religious identities (not just Islamic ) as defined by the Founder of our Nation in his speech on August 11th 1947.

View attachment 709343

“You are free; you are free to go to your temples. You are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed—that has nothing to do with the business of the state.”

But perhaps you wouldn't understand that...
As in your country now...

You don't understand my question. I am not asking whether all citizens are free to worship their god or not? I am just asking whether your Nationalist identity is dominant on your religious identity? You guys keep ignoring my question and post a loads of BS here.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

America is also America first.
Normal. If Pakistanis are not Pakistani first, that's abnormal.

I agree with you a million percent. But there are some Pakistanis even here on PDF that want to sacrifice us for non-Pakistani Muslims. They keep saying "Ummah". Problem with the Ummah is that it can ONLY exist when all Muslims desire and wholeheartedly accept it. The Ummah CANNOT exist by ONLY Pakistanis accepting and believing it.

You don't understand my question. I am not asking whether all citizens are free to worship their god or not? I am just asking whether your Nationalist identity is dominant on your religious identity? You guys keep ignoring my question and post a loads of BS here.

They both are equally dominant as far as Pakistani identity is concerned. Foreigners like you who have NOTHING in common with us can NEVER understand that.

I don't particularly wish for a united Muslim population of India and Pakistan.

I only take offence at Pakistani people of the Indus denigrating Indian Muslims when the truth is that Pakistan was formed in large part by Indian Muslims. There was no concept of a separate Indus identity before 1947. The Pakhtuns under Bacha Khan were much more pliant towards Afghanistan than joining Punjab and Sindh. And the Sindhi was more pliant towards breaking away from Bombay province under Sindhi nationalism than forming a brotherhood of sorts with Punjabis and Pakhtuns.

This falsification of history and ganging up against Indian Muslims will not fly with me.

I am a Muhajir. My roots are from the West UP Doab. Nothing can change that. If the Pakhtun can pine for his Afghan Pakhtun brothers and influence state policy in the 1992 Afghan civil war and the Potohari cabal can pine for their Kashmir cause ruling the roost of the Pakistani foreign and defence policy, why must I keep quiet about my Indian Muslim folks? I am just as much Pakistani as the rest.

Modern day Pakistani Muslims have nothing in common with modern day indian so called "Muslims".

 

[Cliftonite]

Modern day Pakistani Muslims have nothing in common with modern day indian so called "Muslims"

Just like modern day Pakistani Pashtuns have nothing in common with Afghan Pashtuns? And modern day Azad Kashmiris have nothing in commom with Valley Kashmiris?

An Indian Muslim is an Indian Muslim. He salutes to the tiranga. I am a Pakistani Muhajir Muslim and I salute to the sabz parcham. I will not be loyal to India and he will not be loyal to Pakistan.

But nothing in common? Hell no. Kisi ke baap mein yeh jurrat nahi ke mujhe meri roots se alag karay.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Just like modern day Pakistani Pashtuns have nothing in common with Afghan Pashtuns? And modern day Azad Kashmiris have nothing in commom with Valley Kashmiris?

An Indian Muslim is an Indian Muslim. He salutes to the tiranga. I am a Pakistani Muhajir Muslim and I salute to the sabz parcham. I will not be loyal to India and he will not be loyal to Pakistan.

But nothing in common? Hell no. Kisi ke baap mein yeh jurrat nahi ke mujhe meri roots se alag karay.

Muhajirs make up a small minority of Pakistan. It's like saying the White Western European English have racial connections to Africa because there are a significant numbers of blacks living in the UK. In reality both have no connections to one another.