unicorn148
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pakistan doesnt have air refuelling for their f16 because IL 78 are based on russian versions and even the IL 78 of pakistan are on lease
Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2
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pakistan doesnt have air refuelling for their f16 because IL 78 are based on russian versions and even the IL 78 of pakistan are on lease
PakShaheen79
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Yeah MK I knew that... but certainly some amount of them will be used either way. Look at size of IAF... this is why i asked. Other than that, I think these missiles have also a life span even in storage though it must not be a problem with brand new missile but again we don't know if we would get from US stock pile or from production facility.
Arsalan
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dear i dont exactly remember but there was a discussion about some probes that will enable them to be refueled by the ILss.. i dont exactly remember what that was about,, perhaps it was something about the mirages and have nothing to do with F16,,
can you kindly clear it if you have any info about???
regards!
MastanKhan
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Hi,
The missiles also get their mid life upgrades----ie---they are regularly checked.
Also we will get an equal number or more of Sd 10's as well---.
Arsalan
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ew have a handfull of F16 to play with the AMRAAMs. infact the planes will be able to fire BVR once the are done with MLU ans STAR upgrades, a project we have not been hearing anyting about since a few months now. in this case 500 would be enough specially considering the FC20 and JF17 the future main stay of PAF!!
regards!
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daxiang
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Pakistan has heard the message, will revert to the United States to buy 77 F-16 fighter jets. Canada, "Han and" intelligence that the United States as the Chinese fighter planes to Pakistan out of the market, committed to initially provide 1.5 billion U.S. dollars military aid in Pakistan. And international media pointed out that the Russian ban on pre-Chinese aircraft will be equipped with Russian engines of export other countries. It seems the development of FC1 is bound to go through twists and turns. However, I think this is a trivial matter, the Americans and another great plot. The next step would be what? To do the following analysis
With regard to this matter, I think it needs from the United States, Pakistan, China in three aspects, three perspective:
: 1, the United States speed up the infiltration of Pakistan, to further control the Middle East, which is its strategic intentions. This is the United States wants to implement its "eastward extrusion of China, west squeeze Iran, North squeeze Russia, south to affect India's" strategic objective. A part of its global strategy. This trend and the U.S. strategy is not automatically stop, and is an irresistible can only be reconciled. This is China most in need of fee brains to deal with.
2, China and Pakistan to resolve decades of friendship, and undermine China's strategic interests in Pakistan and decades of operation. U.S. military aid to Pakistan, it may gradually made to establish military bases in Pakistan and other issues. This was absolutely to stop the issues of principle. If the United States to establish military bases in Pakistan, then the direct threat "to Iran's oil through the Pakistani port of Gwadar, etc. transported overland to visit Pakistan-China" strategic concept, directly increase the threat to the oil base in Xinjiang, China-Kazakhstan oil pipeline, and even western China oil lifeline, direct containment China's air defense force deployment. And so on. Which further contributed to and strengthen "the United States attack the things that surround China's" military posture.
3, the United States 15 billion dollars in military aid, delay, constraints and Pakistan to join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization to contain the pace, thereby preventing China, Russia led the development and strengthening the Shanghai Cooperation Organization to prevent possible "joint anti-US forces in the potential or potential international organization "development.
4 would not hesitate to F16 fighter outside the diarrhea may be the cost of the technology to suppress China's fighter planes and airborne weapons export market. Pressure China in the international arms market share. Of course, I guess compared to the first three points, several multi-billion dollar arms market is still small. As for the F16 fighter planes and airborne weapons and technology, foreign diarrhea, the United States naturally afraid, because the U.S. already have a new generation of F22 fighter planes.
5, affecting the Government of Pakistan to speed up "anti-terrorism" process. To further eliminate "Al Qaeda" threat to the United States.
The second part, the purpose of receiving U.S. assistance in Pakistan, mainly as follows --
1, Pakistan is the F16, but to do the following purposes: the F16, as against India's high-end machine. Of course, Pakistan can not be, nor the economic strength of all the aircraft equipped with American-style. Pakistan needs the level of partner configuration. Namely: the United States and China aircraft and airborne weapons, Pakistan should be. Pakistan still will purchase Chinese FC1 Xiaolong and China's other models, as well as airborne weapons, as well as the Army, Navy and other arms, even if the number will decline.
2 to F16 projects as well as the U.S. military aid as a bargaining counter, asked China to provide more and more advanced aircraft manufacturing technology, as well as other weapons technology, and other military support. At least to strengthen Pakistan's own, and with the development of China's strength up aircraft manufacturing industry. To achieve the manufacture of aircraft, part of the self-reliance. This is the 04 prototype appeared Xiaolong aircraft, DSI intake, and the use of large strake-wing causes such as better technology. Of course, the aircraft manufacturing industry in Pakistan can not be completely self-reliance, such as: China's aviation industry, has a heart attack, they do not the engine industry.
3, by other possible facilities and assistance. China, Russia, Pakistan, to absorb the "Shanghai Cooperation Organization", then the need to pay more conditions, a higher price to Pakistan.
Part III, China faces pressure and can take countermeasures --
I think that: Although the United States for the infiltration of Pakistan will not be completed overnight, rapidly effective, although the Sino-Pakistani strategic relationship will not be shaken overnight. But the United States will increase for the Pakistan military, political and other influence. Therefore, China is facing is: how to deal with the U.S. offensive in the Middle East and Pakistan? How to resolve the U.S. influence in Pakistan increased, and even his own use?
In view of the above, China is faced with the following pressure to make responses:
1, to accelerate the "Shanghai Cooperation Organization" development, absorbing and Pakistan to join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, to develop and further development of strategic partnership with Pakistan. From this perspective, the development of the "Shanghai Cooperation Organization", the need for strategic thinking, strategic vision, as a strategy to proceed. Specific measures, I still can not think of the hope that high-level attention, we make plans.
2, as a matter of principle, should take measures to put an end to Pakistan agreed to the U.S. to establish military bases in Pakistan and possibilities. At present this is possible. However, this issue can not be discussed. A direct impact on China's western security, which affect the basis for Sino-Pakistani cooperation. Need for a preventive measure.
3, Xiaolong need to have a more excellent price-performance ratio. Xiaolong superior to a more cost-effective, in turn, F16 to contain Pakistan's procurement of the United States and other airborne weapons, the number of arms to reduce Pakistan's dependence on the United States. Xiaolong these requirements as soon as possible so that the word "future perfect" such as China, WS10 engines, other possible advanced technology, and so on. These are mainly depends on the CAC's efforts, as well as the Chinese government's permission. Require specialized sector-specific assessment.
4, China should reflect on as soon as possible: whether the export of China's aircraft or missile exports, it should be more export finished products, semi-finished products, less export production technology and know-how, otherwise, it not foolish? Unfortunately, it has helped many countries have production lines of aircraft and missile production line. China needs to reflect on this issue.
5, if not stop Pakistan to accept the U.S. military aid and the purchase of F16 fighter jets, then Pakistan must take place after the possibility of progressing F16C / D models of technology, in exchange for the Chinese, FC1 Xiaolong and F10 Raptors and other advanced technologies. Since Taiwan is equipped with the F16A / B and other models are also equipped with F16 fighter jets in Japan, therefore, China must get more F16 technology, and even Pakistan's F16 confrontation exercise, thus increasing to deal with Taiwan, Japan, F16 capabilities. And, in addition to F16 aircraft technologies, a comprehensive understanding of the U.S. aircraft-borne weapons performance. Including the possibility of fighting the United States with my air-missiles, air-to-ship missile parameters, and so on.
6, the other, because the U.S. military aid Pakistan, China will inevitably need to avoid paying the price or loss of the following: (1) from Pakistan, Xiaolong orders will decline. However, this decline is not the biggest problem. With the United States, compared to the infiltration of Pakistan, this is not the biggest problem in China. The immediate decline in orders is not terrible; in the future models can be exported to raise the level of independence and raising of the export volume increased to compensate. (2) Xiaolong part of the technology will flow into the United States. However, the technology belonged to the middle part of the following outside the diarrhea. For China, though influential, but China Xiaolong used in performance of the Air Force can not be completely outside the diarrhea to the United States, China Air Force's "own model Xiaolong" technology, as opposed to the export model should be some reservations. How to win in the largest export market and maintain their own aircraft with the advanced nature of the contradictions between the models, and seek the best balance.
With regard to this matter, I think it needs from the United States, Pakistan, China in three aspects, three perspective:
: 1, the United States speed up the infiltration of Pakistan, to further control the Middle East, which is its strategic intentions. This is the United States wants to implement its "eastward extrusion of China, west squeeze Iran, North squeeze Russia, south to affect India's" strategic objective. A part of its global strategy. This trend and the U.S. strategy is not automatically stop, and is an irresistible can only be reconciled. This is China most in need of fee brains to deal with.
2, China and Pakistan to resolve decades of friendship, and undermine China's strategic interests in Pakistan and decades of operation. U.S. military aid to Pakistan, it may gradually made to establish military bases in Pakistan and other issues. This was absolutely to stop the issues of principle. If the United States to establish military bases in Pakistan, then the direct threat "to Iran's oil through the Pakistani port of Gwadar, etc. transported overland to visit Pakistan-China" strategic concept, directly increase the threat to the oil base in Xinjiang, China-Kazakhstan oil pipeline, and even western China oil lifeline, direct containment China's air defense force deployment. And so on. Which further contributed to and strengthen "the United States attack the things that surround China's" military posture.
3, the United States 15 billion dollars in military aid, delay, constraints and Pakistan to join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization to contain the pace, thereby preventing China, Russia led the development and strengthening the Shanghai Cooperation Organization to prevent possible "joint anti-US forces in the potential or potential international organization "development.
4 would not hesitate to F16 fighter outside the diarrhea may be the cost of the technology to suppress China's fighter planes and airborne weapons export market. Pressure China in the international arms market share. Of course, I guess compared to the first three points, several multi-billion dollar arms market is still small. As for the F16 fighter planes and airborne weapons and technology, foreign diarrhea, the United States naturally afraid, because the U.S. already have a new generation of F22 fighter planes.
5, affecting the Government of Pakistan to speed up "anti-terrorism" process. To further eliminate "Al Qaeda" threat to the United States.
The second part, the purpose of receiving U.S. assistance in Pakistan, mainly as follows --
1, Pakistan is the F16, but to do the following purposes: the F16, as against India's high-end machine. Of course, Pakistan can not be, nor the economic strength of all the aircraft equipped with American-style. Pakistan needs the level of partner configuration. Namely: the United States and China aircraft and airborne weapons, Pakistan should be. Pakistan still will purchase Chinese FC1 Xiaolong and China's other models, as well as airborne weapons, as well as the Army, Navy and other arms, even if the number will decline.
2 to F16 projects as well as the U.S. military aid as a bargaining counter, asked China to provide more and more advanced aircraft manufacturing technology, as well as other weapons technology, and other military support. At least to strengthen Pakistan's own, and with the development of China's strength up aircraft manufacturing industry. To achieve the manufacture of aircraft, part of the self-reliance. This is the 04 prototype appeared Xiaolong aircraft, DSI intake, and the use of large strake-wing causes such as better technology. Of course, the aircraft manufacturing industry in Pakistan can not be completely self-reliance, such as: China's aviation industry, has a heart attack, they do not the engine industry.
3, by other possible facilities and assistance. China, Russia, Pakistan, to absorb the "Shanghai Cooperation Organization", then the need to pay more conditions, a higher price to Pakistan.
Part III, China faces pressure and can take countermeasures --
I think that: Although the United States for the infiltration of Pakistan will not be completed overnight, rapidly effective, although the Sino-Pakistani strategic relationship will not be shaken overnight. But the United States will increase for the Pakistan military, political and other influence. Therefore, China is facing is: how to deal with the U.S. offensive in the Middle East and Pakistan? How to resolve the U.S. influence in Pakistan increased, and even his own use?
In view of the above, China is faced with the following pressure to make responses:
1, to accelerate the "Shanghai Cooperation Organization" development, absorbing and Pakistan to join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, to develop and further development of strategic partnership with Pakistan. From this perspective, the development of the "Shanghai Cooperation Organization", the need for strategic thinking, strategic vision, as a strategy to proceed. Specific measures, I still can not think of the hope that high-level attention, we make plans.
2, as a matter of principle, should take measures to put an end to Pakistan agreed to the U.S. to establish military bases in Pakistan and possibilities. At present this is possible. However, this issue can not be discussed. A direct impact on China's western security, which affect the basis for Sino-Pakistani cooperation. Need for a preventive measure.
3, Xiaolong need to have a more excellent price-performance ratio. Xiaolong superior to a more cost-effective, in turn, F16 to contain Pakistan's procurement of the United States and other airborne weapons, the number of arms to reduce Pakistan's dependence on the United States. Xiaolong these requirements as soon as possible so that the word "future perfect" such as China, WS10 engines, other possible advanced technology, and so on. These are mainly depends on the CAC's efforts, as well as the Chinese government's permission. Require specialized sector-specific assessment.
4, China should reflect on as soon as possible: whether the export of China's aircraft or missile exports, it should be more export finished products, semi-finished products, less export production technology and know-how, otherwise, it not foolish? Unfortunately, it has helped many countries have production lines of aircraft and missile production line. China needs to reflect on this issue.
5, if not stop Pakistan to accept the U.S. military aid and the purchase of F16 fighter jets, then Pakistan must take place after the possibility of progressing F16C / D models of technology, in exchange for the Chinese, FC1 Xiaolong and F10 Raptors and other advanced technologies. Since Taiwan is equipped with the F16A / B and other models are also equipped with F16 fighter jets in Japan, therefore, China must get more F16 technology, and even Pakistan's F16 confrontation exercise, thus increasing to deal with Taiwan, Japan, F16 capabilities. And, in addition to F16 aircraft technologies, a comprehensive understanding of the U.S. aircraft-borne weapons performance. Including the possibility of fighting the United States with my air-missiles, air-to-ship missile parameters, and so on.
6, the other, because the U.S. military aid Pakistan, China will inevitably need to avoid paying the price or loss of the following: (1) from Pakistan, Xiaolong orders will decline. However, this decline is not the biggest problem. With the United States, compared to the infiltration of Pakistan, this is not the biggest problem in China. The immediate decline in orders is not terrible; in the future models can be exported to raise the level of independence and raising of the export volume increased to compensate. (2) Xiaolong part of the technology will flow into the United States. However, the technology belonged to the middle part of the following outside the diarrhea. For China, though influential, but China Xiaolong used in performance of the Air Force can not be completely outside the diarrhea to the United States, China Air Force's "own model Xiaolong" technology, as opposed to the export model should be some reservations. How to win in the largest export market and maintain their own aircraft with the advanced nature of the contradictions between the models, and seek the best balance.
PakShaheen79
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I don't see IFR probe on Thunders as yet, FC-20 is some years ago... Why PAF is getting IL-78 tankers so quickly if it cannot fuel F-16? Why PAF did not go for AirBus A301 TT prior to going for IL-78?
Pakistan's relations with China (from economic and more importantly from a security standpoint are very firm). The entire armed forces are tooled around the Chinese hardware and this will not change (especially for the Army which may go for select US systems, but will always keep the inventory predominantly Chinese due to assured support). Secondly, from a Pakistani defence establishment standpoint, Chinese technology is no longer of the type being offered to Pakistan in the 70s and 80s. The technology in many systems is easily at par with the Western systems.
Pakistan has a tough balancing act to maintain to make sure that both Chinese and the American relations can be managed in a cordial and friendly manner while at the same time ensuring the Pakistan will not be used by once against the other.
Pakistan has a tough balancing act to maintain to make sure that both Chinese and the American relations can be managed in a cordial and friendly manner while at the same time ensuring the Pakistan will not be used by once against the other.
TOPGUN
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True but has PAF even looked in to it? or other options i know the mid air refuling option for the f-16 's can't go un seen !!
Arsalan
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True but has PAF even looked in to it? or other options i know the mid air refuling option for the f-16 's can't go un seen !!
i dont think so. as far as i understand PAF do not take the F16 to be there power punch anymmore and are looking at other options to fill in this role. the FC20 is an example. for this reason it may not be adviseable to spend millions more on buying a refueller operational with only a handfull of F16z!
regards!
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