Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Arsalan]

I think PAF would know, Weather we have them or not does it matter.

:when we fight/fly, whether we win or lose!!", if this matters than off-course having or not having the AMRAAM matters sir!

 

[Muradk]

:when we fight/fly, whether we win or lose!!", if this matters than off-course having or not having the AMRAAM matters sir!

Funny you are telling me about flying and fight. And I do agree what you are saying. Trust me PAF is in a good position.

 

[Arsalan]

Funny you are telling me about flying and fight. And I do agree what you are saying. Trust me PAF is in a good position.

i do not dare to do so

 

[Muradk]

i do not dare to do so

Yar you have all the right please don't say like that you are a good friend . What happens sometimes Particular Armed forces like India, Pakistan don't openly tell people that we have a particular weapon, Tho there intel agencies have contacts but some times they fail but flip side to this is they pick up news from forums, There are 2 main forums which ISI and RAW read every day that is PAKDEF and DEFENCE.PK MOST DONT LIKE pakdef because they make everything look like the Manhattan Project so they jump on our forum for info. It is not that I am an retired officer I just feel that some things should stay within that boundry, yes PAK would say that we are buying this from USA but will not tell if they have got it or not. Why do you think India is still sitting on there money and not buying weapons right now they will counter our and chinese move. Every day they say we are buying this we are buying that but still they haven't made there mind because they want to see our selection first.

 

[Arsalan]

Yar you have all the right please don't say like that you are a good friend . What happens sometimes Particular Armed forces like India, Pakistan don't openly tell people that we have a particular weapon, Tho there intel agencies have contacts but some times they fail but flip side to this is they pick up news from forums, There are 2 main forums which ISI and RAW read every day that is PAKDEF and DEFENCE.PK MOST DONT LIKE pakdef because they make everything look like the Manhattan Project so they jump on our forum for info. It is not that I am an retired officer I just feel that some things should stay within that boundry, yes PAK would say that we are buying this from USA but will not tell if they have got it or not. Why do you think India is still sitting on there money and not buying weapons right now they will counter our and chinese move. Every day they say we are buying this we are buying that but still they haven't made there mind because they want to see our selection first.

no sir, i can understand this!

actually i have always felt that there is a lot of info at this forum which can be helpfull for enemies, but sie dont you think that countries with inteligence agencies as developed as RAW, MAUSAD, CIA oe FBI do not need websites to gather intel!! they have there sources everywhere,

anyways i understand what you wanted to say! lets keep it secret!

regards

 

[Munir]

Why do you think India is still sitting on there money and not buying weapons right now they will counter our and chinese move. Every day they say we are buying this we are buying that but still they haven't made there mind because they want to see our selection first.

I think PAF already is one step behind but thanks to that delay PAF shifted pretty fast beyond latest Indian game. PAF is still flying F7p, Mirage 3/5 and F16block15. India loves to, and we surely canot blaim them, with their MKI. Other then that they have the same old mig21, old Jaguar, oldest Mig29 and even older Mirage2000h. Within one year it will be totally different. While India moves to more MKI (and a bigger maintenance hell) and first AWACS, PAF will be shifting to JF17 (+/-september 2009 fully operational) and Erieye (august 2009). Besides that june 2010 will be the first 4 block52. We will have navalized Babur and better Ra'ad. And lots of BVR's and other smart weapons. I don't think the next move is important... Whatever India decides... There will me more producers willing to deliver to pak. They need export. And PAF will more and more pro China... J10B is a pretty hard fact and surel there is something after that... The remark that PAF will not ho for dual engined fighterjet is a bit simplistic. A5 and J6 were duals... F5 also... There will be a dual J10... Pretty nasty for anything in IAF...

 

[TOPGUN]

Paf will be a nightmare for our enemies by 2010/2011 inshallah not that it isnt a nightmare right now even with wat we got can't wait for this change to place !!

 

[Muradk]

They should leave J-10 and go for J-11 that would really boost our power in Air. And if the American put J-11 on 4th best fighter in the world and are **** scared of it there must be a reason.

 

[MastanKhan]

no sir, i can understand this!

actually i have always felt that there is a lot of info at this forum which can be helpfull for enemies, but sie dont you think that countries with inteligence agencies as developed as RAW, MAUSAD, CIA oe FBI do not need websites to gather intel!! they have there sources everywhere,

anyways i understand what you wanted to say! lets keep it secret!

regards

Hi,

These web-sites are the best source of information for any agency---loose lips sink ships---people like to talk and nothing like talking behind the screen of invisibility---these web-sites have tons of information floating around---only if you know what you are looking for.

 

[MastanKhan]

They should leave J-10 and go for J-11 that would really boost our power in Air. And if the American put J-11 on 4th best fighter in the world and are **** scared of it there must be a reason.

Hi,


Muradk is so correct in his analysis---why go for J 10---why not J11---that would completely change the playing field and the role of PAF---suddenly the advantage that Iaf has will disappear---now that we have come up with the solution---what would it take for the paf to get the J11's.

My thinking would be to complement the current fleet with

150 JF 17's for now

50 Fc 20's for now

50 J11's for now

I believe the thoughts are about PAF to have at least one platform fully capable to go mano a mano with SU30 without any prejudice---without any reservations plus any other aircraft that india could procure.

 

[Muradk]

Hi,


Muradk is so correct in his analysis---why go for J 10---why not J11---that would completely change the playing field and the role of PAF---suddenly the advantage that Iaf has will disappear---now that we have come up with the solution---what would it take for the paf to get the J11's.

My thinking would be to complement the current fleet with

150 JF 17's for now

50 Fc 20's for now

50 J11's for now

I believe the thoughts are about PAF to have at least one platform fully capable to go mano a mano with SU30 without any prejudice---without any reservations plus any other aircraft that india could procure.

Excellent point no doubt.

 

[Arsalan]

They should leave J-10 and go for J-11 that would really boost our power in Air. And if the American put J-11 on 4th best fighter in the world and are **** scared of it there must be a reason.

perhaps the maintainance factor is a big issue!
getting them in small number and then spending a lot of money on there maintainance wmay well tur out to be a nightmare!

other than this i think there might be Russian influence in this deal, after it is a licienced copy of the russian plane! i dont see russians denaying such equipment to us especially with chines interference but still it may be a case, , ,

the J 11 is said to be superior thwn the russain Su27 that india is alos operating but it may not e as good as the Su30

another thing that confuses me is that if the J11 was good enough then why china spend lots of budget of developing J10 and still upgrading it and spending heavily on J10 B ? ? ?
they could have spend half the amount to make the J11 a far more superior platform, comparable to the Su30!! ??

what do you people think of it?

regards

 

[mean_bird]

They should leave J-10 and go for J-11 that would really boost our power in Air. And if the American put J-11 on 4th best fighter in the world and are **** scared of it there must be a reason.

Murad Sahib,

what makes you think the Russian will allow this? RD-93 was one thing but J-11, which is a copy of the Su-27, will amount to total disrespect of copyrights.

I believe the PAF must have tried this, when reports started to surface that Russia will sue China if it exports the J-11. I am not even sure if J-11B carries all chinese equipments or still some Russian parts.

If those things could ever be resolved, I think J-11 will be the "extra-punch" we are looking for in terms of "hi-tech". J-10 would replicate the F-16 and was originally as a back-up plan should things go wrong in the F-16 deal.

However since then, and the decision to have the FC-20 being delayed, the J-10 is to be more superior to the F-16 and somewhere close to the blk 60/Rafale/EF, particularly since the prospects of a J-11 looks bleak due to Russia.

Just my opinion

P.S. could you free your PM inbox as it is full and I cannot send you a PM.

 

[mean_bird]

another thing that confuses me is that if the J11 was good enough then why china spend lots of budget of developing J10 and still upgrading it and spending heavily on J10 B ? ? ?
they could have spend half the amount to make the J11 a far more superior platform, comparable to the Su30!! ??

what do you people think of it?

regards

J-10 and J-11 are akin to F-16 and F-15 in USAF. You need both as a lo-hi mix so they complement each other rather than compete against each other.

 

[Munir]

Hi,


Muradk is so correct in his analysis---why go for J 10---why not J11---that would completely change the playing field and the role of PAF---suddenly the advantage that Iaf has will disappear---now that we have come up with the solution---what would it take for the paf to get the J11's.

My thinking would be to complement the current fleet with

150 JF 17's for now

50 Fc 20's for now

50 J11's for now

I believe the thoughts are about PAF to have at least one platform fully capable to go mano a mano with SU30 without any prejudice---without any reservations plus any other aircraft that india could procure.

I think I agree with it 100%.

Frontline
250-300 JF17 block2
50-100 FC20/J10B

Spare
16 block52
40+ MLU block52
100 Mirage 3/5

Total 450-550

Radar coverage
5 Chinese AWACS + 5 Erieye + 3 Orion 2000

Transport
10 Il78 + 10 il76
10-20 C130
4-10 CN235-220

Training
100 Mushaq
50 K8