Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Arsalan]

by the way, what is the extra charm in operating a twin engine plane, though they may be better but dont you think that operating such a mamoth plane requiring such heavy maintainance budget and time will be a big set back for PAF!

what are your comments? all members please!!

regards

 

[mean_bird]

Arsalan, what Muradk and other senior members are saying is right. Its not like we are getting a heavy fighter in numbers like the JF-17. They would be just one or two squadrons strength. And they are there to supplement the JF-17 and give you the added "punch power".

Look at it this way..when you boxers are fighting, most of the time its just defensive or provocative punchs but every now and then, a boxers puts all his force and weight and goes for that "power punch" to knock the other down.

Similarly, you need planes in numbers to protect the range of your border. Most of the time you are patrolling your borders but you need some highly aggressive fighters to protect you top locations and also some potentially lethal missions and/or deep strike mission.
Also you form combination of hi-lo fighters thus using your potential to the maximum.

Thats the whole point of having a high-end fighter. Ofcourse these still need to be within our budget and we should have access to them now and it times of difficulty.

1]
rumour was also there about twin engined super j-10? perhaps it would incorporate most of the avionics of j11b?

2]
if indian pilots are flying mki for some years [more experience] ,, would having the same platform hinder in our actions,, as the indians also know the plus and neg. aspects of the plane? moreover is mki better than j11-b as indians put it?
why not some super j11b with some specs of su35?

3]
i doubt that russia would sue china.. in this way they would lose another big importer of russian goods after india?

4]
j11b/ jf17 block2 combo would be great if we dont have financial constraints and buy them in some good quantities>? i agree that its no fun to buy j10 because ultimately its specs wouls be closely matched with jf-17-block2 anyway

Russia already threatened to sue China once when there were rumors of China exporting that plane (to pakistan?). Later Russia withdrew that thread saying there was some 'misunderstanding' and we know the J-11 never got exported. Unlike RD-93, Russia has a major say in the J-11 since it is a direct violation of copyright and propriety issues.

Also J-11B with specs of Su-35? If China had such technology why wouldn't they be making Su-35 and Su-33 for themselves first?

Lets wait and see. J-11 would be a nice option but I have my doubts it will be available for export. China would need some serious advancement in engines before they can offer anyone any decent plane independently.

 

[Quwa]

From what I know, the J-10B and J-11B are geared towards different roles within the PLA (AF and N). The J-10B is essentially an air superiority fighter based on a highly maneuverable airframe, contemporary ECM/EW and avionics as well as phased-array (AESA) radar. Its job is to defend home airspace from fighters in the league of MRCA and Su-30MKI. Now for the PAF, the FC-20 will also be capable of strike - essentially as a solid multi-role fighter.

If PAF was to also get J-11B, then it would not be acquired in the place of FC-20, but rather to further supplement the fleet. The J-11B is capable of long-range interception thanks to its superior range and payload. I'm not sure, but maybe the larger airframe indicates it can carry more sophisticated ECM/EW-systems and a larger radar? Nonetheless, to PAF I can see J-11B fit well as a key strike and maritime-support fighter.

 

[Arsalan]

Arsalan, what Muradk and other senior members are saying is right. Its not like we are getting a heavy fighter in numbers like the JF-17. They would be just one or two squadrons strength. And they are there to supplement the JF-17 and give you the added "punch power".

Look at it this way..when you boxers are fighting, most of the time its just defensive or provocative punchs but every now and then, a boxers puts all his force and weight and goes for that "power punch" to knock the other down.

Similarly, you need planes in numbers to protect the range of your border. Most of the time you are patrolling your borders but you need some highly aggressive fighters to protect you top locations and also some potentially lethal missions and/or deep strike mission.
Also you form combination of hi-lo fighters thus using your potential to the maximum.

Thats the whole point of having a high-end fighter. Ofcourse these still need to be within our budget and we should have access to them now and it times of difficulty.

well this seems to be the only case where getting J11 will be a nice option, stick to your already planned arsenal of JF17, FC20 and F16 adn get 30 - 40 J11 to add extra power!!
but can it be materialized keeping in view the economic situation of our country! we may even be having problem in getting the already finalized packages, even the JF17 and the J10, so how come we get our hands on J11 soecially when it is suuch a budget eater when it comes to maintainance, apart of this it itself will be costing us alot!

what do you people say!

i mean, yes adding something different is always good for the force but the quetion is that can we afford to get and moreover run it!!

regards!

 

[IceCold]

Everything Chinese will make us too much dependent on the Chinese. Have we ever thought about that. We should not make the same mistake we made back then relying solely on the US. We need to diversify our purchase. Out of the J-10 or J-11 only one should be chosen and if we need to put extra punch to our air force, then we should also look elsewhere. There are more potent fighters available.

 

[TOPGUN]

I agree with Icecold ! but funds are a big factor plus no one else is willing to sell to us there is also the main point of a fighter having some US parts thats always the issue that comes in play so wat are suppose to do we have to work with wat we got and wat we can get .

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi

I don't think that there is any other plane of the calibre of J 11 in the price range of 40---60 million dollars each ( am I right about the price ). The only thing that paf needs is parity with iaf---that is all---that is where the game changes.

Parity with iaf will bring political stability to the region and that is the most important part of the deal---iaf will have to think seriously before making any threatening gestures on pak borders and air space.

Fear of sanctions is always there---so either it is the french or the chinese. We can't touch a french plane for less than 80-90 million dollars a piece ie the rafael.

My request is for the posters to consider this---a stronger paf at par with the iaf will completely change the indian aggressive posture towards pakistan.

At this stage in the game we need not be concerned with what india has (we are concerned )---what we need to be concerned with is, to acquire something that brings us at the same level of SU 30. And that is the J 11---we don't need too many of them--as MuradK suggested a sqdrdn and half at kamra and a sqdrn and half at karachi and we have all our bases covered.

If we can't get the J 11's under any condition at all---then I am pretty sure that the numbers of Jf 17 and the Fc 20 will be juggled around---and then there are always those m2k-5/9 coming up sale in a couple to three years time from qatar and uae.

 

[fatman17]

I don't think we can buy J11 because of Russian issue.OTOH, J10 is not matured.So in case we are sanctioned again then what's the backup plan?[/QUOTE]

keep kissing the US A$$!

 

[Patriot]

Everything Chinese will make us too much dependent on the Chinese. Have we ever thought about that. We should not make the same mistake we made back then relying solely on the US. We need to diversify our purchase. Out of the J-10 or J-11 only one should be chosen and if we need to put extra punch to our air force, then we should also look elsewhere. There are more potent fighters available.

Completely agree.We should NEVER rely on one partner.We should buy arms from different countries like Germany, France, China and US (whenever we are not sanctioned ) otherwise China will have a monopoly.

 

[Contrarian]

At this stage in the game we need not be concerned with what india has (we are concerned )---what we need to be concerned with is, to acquire something that brings us at the same level of SU 30. And that .

Isnt the point of Indian MRCA contest to get a plane that is more sophisticated than the Su-30MKI and to get technologies that would kickstart the high end aerospace electronics industry in India.

 

[Manticore]

i agree we should not have all the planes from1 country, considering the technological limitation fact... but saying that we would be totally dependent on china is wrong, cuz most of the deals with them are involving some kind of tot i presume

 

[MastanKhan]

Isnt the point of Indian MRCA contest to get a plane that is more sophisticated than the Su-30MKI and to get technologies that would kickstart the high end aerospace electronics industry in India.

Malay,

How are you? SU 30 is an extremely superior multirole aircraft. Except for the F 22, SU 30 can rule the sky on any given day against any aircraft. So, regardless of what the IAF purchases, it will not get the bang for the buck---they already have a top tier air craft in the arena that they operate in. Which means that there won't be any eye popping performance from the new aircraft---mrca.

 

[Arsalan]

Everything Chinese will make us too much dependent on the Chinese. Have we ever thought about that. We should not make the same mistake we made back then relying solely on the US. We need to diversify our purchase. Out of the J-10 or J-11 only one should be chosen and if we need to put extra punch to our air force, then we should also look elsewhere. There are more potent fighters available.

agreed!

this is the point, we have actually suffered from it in the past!
though china and paksitan hold mutual intrest with each other and there are no chance of any kind of bad relation between these two countries
but why take the risk!!

now the point is what are other option, sadly enough its a NO!
the europeans are way too expensive! also a point is that we never have money to pay at the point of deal and there is no other country happily willing to give us planes of loan payments!!

do it is almost NO WAY BACK for us now!!

 

[Arsalan]

Malay,

How are you? SU 30 is an extremely superior multirole aircraft. Except for the F 22, SU 30 can rule the sky on any given day against any aircraft. So, regardless of what the IAF purchases, it will not get the bang for the buck---they already have a top tier air craft in the arena that they operate in. Which means that there won't be any eye popping performance from the new aircraft---mrca.

very true,
the F16 IN or even the F 18 are same but not superior to the Su30!

the issue is only about the F35 as F22 will never be available!!

 

[Patriot]

very true,
the F16 IN or even the F 18 are same but not superior to the Su30!

the issue is only about the F35 as F22 will never be available!!

Both F16IN and F18 has AESA Radar which is far superior to SU30MKI Pesa Radar.